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Posted (edited)

I would agree that until the Delta variant that was the case with children - taking the case of 'children' in isolation from their families 😕

I think the balance has tipped the other way significantly now even without associated longer term health issues in children

 

Other problem is that younger folk (not just kids) were advised to use other than the O/AZ - and the pfiser seems  to be in short supply - for the UK - and I cant see the EU helping out given Johnsons shaft the EU Antics with the O/AZ and deal reneging 

- and neither are the Yanks or the Aussies

 

 

(bulb moment - why O/AZ are amending more than the virus genetics)

 

 

... snap HB

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Sure I heard on a news report recently that Pfizer vaccine stock was low, because they don't have the production capacity to meet the demand.  Because some other vaccines are not being used for people in certain age groups, Pfizer has become one in very high demand.

 

Bit concerned by the recent Oxford/AZ data that it may not be as effective as previously thought.  And if this is the case, people who had this vaccine, may need to receive alternative vaccines in the Autumn. Or may be I have not understood the reported scientific data produced by a University recently and there is no problem with the Oxford/AZ vaccine.    I hope that I am mistaken, as I have had two Oxford/AZ vaccinations.

 

 

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Shortage of pfiser In the UK  - yes as stated

Not heard amy warnings of shortages (just some minor short falls) in the EU, in fact they are giving away O/AZ and other vaccines aren't they ... unlike the UK

 

 

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Bit concerned by the recent Oxford/AZ data that it may not be as effective as previously thought.

 

Perhaps look back in this thread?

Rather than take Johnsons cronies word ...

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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On 22/12/2020 at 16:33, tobyjugg2 said:

Dont know the detail yet HB

 

Like the issues other countries are reported having with the Oxford vaccine .. many with the lack of transparency and 'not properly supported and documented' claims it would seem.

 

The UK is apparently basing its vaccine roll-out on 4 million doses (still not enough) of the Oxford vaccine

We'll perhaps know more if anything is reported on its authorisation other than UK

A little over 60% is its confirmed efficacy as far as I can see

 

.. The group that had the 1/2 + 1 and high efficacy rate was made up of a large portion of young folk which casts great doubt on the quality of the higher efficacy claim it would seem

 

On 08/02/2021 at 08:35, tobyjugg2 said:

Sure most have seen on the news the 'issues with efficacy of the O/AZ against the south African variant, so bad that they have stopped the rollout in SA.

 

O/AZ question the findings based on the limited number of people involved in the test

.. LOL - didnt they claim increased efficacy based a small abnormal sample?

 

and claim that 'they believe it will still prevent severe illness in older folk/everyone

despite the test subjects all being VERY young - exactly the circumstances that they claimed boosted efficacy previously and prior claims that what happens in the young also likely to happen in the older (when in was in their favour to do so) ... despite not testing adequately

 

and state they expect to have a modified vaccine suitable for the variant now spreading across the world - 'by autumn'

Thought these were easy to modify, and does anyone believe the Virus WON'T have modified itself again by then? Perhaps repeatedly.

 

My trust in O/AZ, already low, has dropped like a stone

 

https://www.ft.com/content/e9bbd4fe-e6bf-4383-bfd3-be64140a3f36

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/7/astrazeneca-covid-jab-less-effective-against-s-africa-variant

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca-varian/oxford-astrazeneca-covid-shot-less-effective-against-south-african-variant-study-idUSKBN2A60SH

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazeneca-vaccine-doesnt-protect-against-mild-and-moderate-cases-from-south-africa-strain-11612700385

https://www.wionews.com/world/oxfordastrazeneca-jab-fails-to-prevent-coronavirus-from-south-african-strain-study-361874

 

 

Some seemingly more honest and detailed responses from other vaccine suppliers as examples:

 

"The Johnson & Johnson vaccine was 57 percent effective in South Africa, compared with 72 percent in the United States and 66 percent in Latin America.

Novavax, meanwhile, said its vaccine was 89.3 percent effective in a trial conducted in the United Kingdom, but only showed 50 percent effectiveness in a trial carried out in South Africa.

Moderna also reported a reduced immune response from its vaccine against the South African variant, and has said it will test a new booster shot aimed at that variant."

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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4 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I've seen rumours that Pfizer stocks are running low, but I haven't seen anything definite about it in the media. HMG are never going to admit that, are they?

No

 

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/dr-says-uk-running-short-5619196

whereas

https://www.shropshirelive.com/news/2021/07/16/adults-are-invited-to-grab-a-jab-this-weekend-without-the-need-to-book/

 

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Becoming a bit of farce with so many people having to isolate after reeceiving alerts on their phone apps..

 

Speak to quite a lot of people everyday and they have had to isolate or just finished an isolation period. The office I cover a support role for, had to close for a deep clean  after a member of staff had a positive test and close again 2 days later as there were not enough staff to meet security standards, so had to close to members of the public.

 

Boris's let the virus rip gamble may be going totally wrong.  On the local news, there were stories of young people seriously ill in hospital.

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That's awful, UB, but sadly I'm not surprised.

 

Two items for this thread. 1200 scientists have now signed the Lancet letter saying that the UK's unlocking is a threat to the world.

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1416058074054418438

 

And a video clip of Walter Ricciardi, adviser to the Italian government. "This is not a matter of internal affairs, because from England the virus is spreading all over the world". He was speaking at an international summit that was organised by The Citizens.

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1416058074054418438

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I don't understand this. The UK wants to quarantine doubly vaccinated people returning from France because of the number of cases of the Beta variant in France.

 

But the UK is happy to send people to France or a lot of other places, who might carry the more infectious Delta variant to those countries.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/437760-fully-jabbed-arrivals-from-france-must-still-quarantine/

 

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Posted (edited)

I thought I'd misheard where that cropped up HB - Bonkers

 

already at 50,000 infections a day - most of which could have been avoided by earlier restrictions on travel from India, and managed better with temperature checks at airports and proper management of incomers - like in so much of the world

 

As already stated - Its the UK thats going to be on the nofly/no travel list for the rest of the world ... start the countdown

Edited by tobyjugg2
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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

Just to summarise the difference between the O/AZ and Pfiser vaccines, I think the following extract from one of my prior links sums up and quantifies all the other info regarding comparing those two vaccines (but dont forget the O/AZ is less 'fragile in storage)

 

"Scientists in Oxford looked at the impact of a mix-and-match approach to vaccinations where people were given either the standard two shots of Oxford/AstraZeneca or Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, or a combination of the two.

 

The study found marked differences in antibody levels against the virus depending on the shots given.

 

While two doses of Pfizer produced the highest levels of antibodies, one shot of Oxford vaccine followed by a Pfizer booster was nearly as potent.

 

Other combinations were not as effective. Those who had a Pfizer shot followed by an Oxford booster had antibody levels nearly seven times lower than those who had two shots of Pfizer, though this was still five times higher than the antibody levels recorded in people who had two shots of AstraZeneca.

 

“You’ve certainly got an extra kick to your immune system if you boost with the RNA vaccine from Pfizer rather than a booster dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine,” said Matthew Snape, the chief investigator on the Com-Cov trial and associate professor in paediatrics and vaccinology at Oxford.

Edited by tobyjugg2
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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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I now have been given a date for my second jab, July 21st and lo and behold is is the Astra-Zeneca /Oxford one again!

I just hope I will be ok after it this time, still getting  bad headaches from first one and now been told I have a heart murmmer 

Thing is this has never been picked up on any ECG at all, it was my Doctor who told me,  she now wants me to have a heart scan! Joy lol

 

Sandy xx

R.I.P my beautiful grey ghost, gone but never forgotten, taken so suddenly, 04/07/2004 ~ ~ 02/03/2017

Gone but never forgotten,Little Miss Sunshine, Alisha Marie. 15/12/2005 ~ ~ 13/02/2006

Our  beloved Dalmatian Jazz,  gone to join Wal at Rainbow Bridge, hope you are now pain free .  20/9/2005 ~ ~ 24/3/2019

 

 

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Good luck, Sandy. Please let us know how you get on. :grouphug:

 

I think I may understand why the UK has suddenly put France somewhere between amber and red in the traffic light system. France has quite a lot of Beta variant cases and apparently O/AZ isn't very effective against it.

 

To compensate, HMG has put Croatia and Bulgaria on the green list, but Bulgaria isn't currently letting Brits in.

 

This doesn't seem very thought through.

 

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Sandy

Have you asked your GP about the possibility of having the pfiser for the second jab, particularly given

a: That it is recommended to some sections of society due to health/effect issues

b: Tests show (see above) that a second pfiser after a first AZ is actually significantly better than 2 o/AZ

 

HB

Yes the O/AZ is rather ineffective against the beta variant - but still a strange decision being as the beta variant has been out in the UK for 6 months

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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Many recent decisions by UK Government do not make sense.

 

I see in the Daily Mail comments pages, people are saying they will be deleting the NHS covid app.

 

Telling people they can enjoy more freedoms from 19th July and then having very large numbers isolating  after app alerts is ridiculous. 

 

Prediction - UK will be in national lockdown again in September after people have had a holiday period July/August. 

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Prediction: The UK will be a 'nation locked down by a good chunk of the world before August the way johnson the incompetent liar is carrying on

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Uk is now a Pingocracy, locked down by the back door, as Johnson tries to  umm, er, ahh, em  umm, eh his way out of it. Its gone all Franz Kafka

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Posted (edited)
WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Minister says his symptoms are ‘mild’ but he feels ‘groggy’

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

Arguable it seems hes clearly hasn't been following the guidance he should be ...

... let alone meticulously as an example to others as he should have been all along ...

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Anyone got an up to date list of how many countries have the UK on their red list?

The express had one for about 3 weeks or so ago

 

 

WWW.EXPRESS.CO.UK

THE UK's green list is confusing because it includes countries that have banned Brits from entering. Here are the 58 countries and territories where...

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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This is from the Independent two days ago. They mention a Foreign Office list of which countries will let Brits in.

 

Sadly, it's looking again as if it's best not to leave the UK this summer unless maybe you can sit it out until the UK re-entry rules change over quarantine. People planning to travel to France as of Monday have already been caught out.

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Amber list countries are becoming more accessible from 19 July

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

WWW.WANDERLUST.CO.UK

All the latest information on which countries are open to UK travellers and which countries are closed to UK travellers, following the global COVID-19...

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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