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    • If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.
    • I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.   Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.   [ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]
    • Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:   19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include: ... iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold] Victims' Right to Review Scheme | The Crown Prosecution Service WWW.CPS.GOV.UK   I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.   If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.   I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...   [Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]
    • @Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .   Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler.    He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.   You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.   My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed    I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 
    • I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.   I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.     But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.   One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it.    (I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)   Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS   I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.   I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.   One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?
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5 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

They only have to refuse entry  - I've known many do that for just the wrong footwear or shirt

 

Whether they will or not, and whether venue owners thing more of 'the more people then more money' and instruct as such is another matter

I think it will be more a case of manpower here and the level of skill required to check paperwork (including mobile phone documentation).  For example, I'm not sure how much training an immigration officer gets to check the validity of passports but I'd guess their skill level is greater than could be expected for door staff at a nighclub.  I have my paper copy of vaccine status and it would be a doddle to churn them out to a standard which would satisfy cursory inspection by an amateur. 

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5 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Are you talking about dodgy certificates, HT? I'm  not suggesting that you plan to make them.

Not me HB but as the idea of needing them has been driven by low take up of vaccination among the young I'm pretty sure they'll find a way round.  We may moan about the 'yoof' but they can be very resourceful.

Edited by hightail
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Looks like boosters may not be available as a matter of course 
 
A third COVID booster jab is likely to only be needed for a small group of people, according to a government adviser. (Getty)
 

A third coronavirus jab will “quite likely” only be needed by a small group of people, a government adviser has said.

Professor Adam Finn, who sits on the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) – which advises the government on vaccine policy – said people who have a weak immune system are likely to need a booster jab.

He said it is still unclear whether a rollout will be necessary for all over-50s.

His comments came after health secretary Sajid Javid confirmed that plans are under way to prepare for an autumn rollout of booster shots, but stressed that ministers were still waiting for advice on exactly who will need one.

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So if boosters aren't needed, why are the government ordering or at least having options on 35m doses of Pfizer alone for next year? I think I got the figure right.

Edited by honeybee13
Previous figure may have been wrong.
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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

@hightail

JCVI is a political arm - just look at the changes in personnel recently - members are selectively picked for their opinions

If you want something honest - look to indi sage

 

@HB

Too true  120 million doses will be enough and to spare for the UK otherwise.

Or is someone expecting a 150 million plus population increase in the UK over the next 2 years?

 

Its seems that over 50yo O/AZ jabbees are to be offered the pfiser as a booster

You heard the suggestion here first folks

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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WWW.BBC.CO.UK

Posts claiming Covid vaccines cause miscarriages are not supported by scientific evidence.

 

As this subject came up before, thought I would add information link

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I am definitely going to have a booster if offered.  Not relying on the 2x AZ providing good protection for a year.

 

I think there is a UK obligation to help poorer countries, as it is in our self interest.  The number of vaccine factories is increasing to meet world demand and UK should contribute as much as possible towards paying for vaccines.

We could do with some help from you.

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I've also seen some expert idiot saying it will be seasonal ..

and nobody says to him 'so with cases rising, what season are we in you numpty?'

or is he referring to some day a couple of generations away in the future if a global climate apocalypse doesn't kill us first

 

.. but at least he said there is 'unlikely to be any real form of herd immunity.

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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15 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:
As this subject came up before, thought I would add information link

 

"False and misleading claims that Covid-19 vaccines harm fertility and cause miscarriages are still circulating online, against all the evidence."

 

Should be included with every reference

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

Now I'm looking

 

WWW.NATURE.COM

Results hint that dose stretching could help to address the world’s acute vaccine shortage. Using only one-quarter of the usual amount of...

 

 

So seems half a dose is likely to be plenty and perhaps even less side effects

Edited by tobyjugg2
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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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12 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

I think there is a UK obligation to help poorer countries, as it is in our self interest.  The number of vaccine factories is increasing to meet world demand and UK should contribute as much as possible towards paying for vaccines

It's a no brainer.  'Nobody is safe until we're all safe' was a nice little soundbite and in this case also true.

Edited by hightail
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13 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

JCVI is a political arm - just look at the changes in personnel recently - members are selectively picked for their opinions

If you want something honest - look to indi sage

So will govt take notice of what they say or not?  We're all at the mercy of whatever govt decide, no option for individuals of popping along to a private supplier for a booster other than an expensive trip overseas.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, hightail said:

So will govt take notice of what they say or not?

 

As the members are carefully selected for their opinions, and replaced (by govt) as it suits - who cares?

Rather like whitty - who has largely chosen more and more to bring what he says in line with govt, rather than stating the science as he did.

 

Seems to me there will be boosters whatever some patsy says today.

I'd be happy to bet significant money on it.

 

 

Having read the few available reports on half doses now I know what to look for, I'd bet money thats going to happen too

Dunno why it hasn't - seems the correct dose SHOULD have been properly tested at least 6 months ago

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Mind you

The big issue in the developed world is vaccine 'hesitancy

and I entirely understand why with the utter untrustworthyness of the people in charge here in the UK, and the volume of unaddressed false/misleading information

 

.. and then theres all the false and misleading stuff on wordpress and the wider internet ...

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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The misinformation is worrying. In France, protestors have vandalised some vaccine centres and painted on yellow stars to imply it's similar to anti-Jewish moves by the Nazis.

 

Edit: link added.

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Vandals damage 22 health sites, often leaving graffiti comparing vaccination drive to Holocaust

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm going to select and summarise the link as I see it:

A 50% dose of pfiser vaccine seems to result in around a  25% decrease in 'antibodies compared to the full dose, and still vastly higher than the O/AZ levels. Younger people generate around a third more anti-bodies than older people for the same dose.

 

and from what I've seen, the 2 doses, followed by a booster half dose is an overall optimum process to consider giving overall, with O/AZ recipients receiving an Mrna booster at 6 moths or before higher risk periods (autumn/winter) just like the flu jab.

 

2 x More doses

good protection

The three dose regime (3rd @ 6 months) seems to add to protection and will vaccinate far more people

* A quarter dose regime should be considered where vaccine is in short supply

( I still need to cross refer the 'quarter' dose results)

 

Excepts:

Both doses of mRNA-1273 induced increases in the levels of anti-SARS-CoV-2-spike bAb from baseline by day 29, 28 days after the first vaccination (Fig. 3A).


Anti-SARS-CoV-2-spike bAb levels increased substantially by 14 days (day 43) after the second vaccination to GM mean (95%CI)

peak levels of :

189 (173–207) and 239 (221–259)mg/ml at 50 and 100mg mRNA-1273 respectively in younger participants,

and 153 (135–175) and 162 (142–185)mg/ml in older participants.

 

These levels vastly exceeded those in convalescent COVID-19 sera (48 [38–60] mg/ml).

 

Antibody levels remained elevated through day 57, 28 days after vaccination,

in the younger (146 [132–161] and 181 [164–200)] mg/ml)

and older (107 [93–123)] and 121

 

 

 

WWW.SCIENCEDIRECT.COM

Vaccines are urgently needed to prevent the global spread of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). We assessed the...

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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So, its seems for Monday that those who have been double jabbed, and those under 18 will not have to self isolate with a 'suggestion' that they get a PCR

 

Just a ploy to get people vaccinated, which is a good thing, and if some who have been vaccinated and get infected happen to die or infect their families or others, and if an under 18 or teacher avoidably takes it into a school -  jogg on

Herd infection policy wrapped in an excuse.

 

Simple facts

 

Vaccination seems to half transmission, although it seems to reduce the severe effects of around 90% of those infected - so far

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

 

 

The reality

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

Big BBC headline 'majority of COVID hospitalised still unvaccinated'

 

reality - despite 3/4 of adult population double vaccinated, just under half (45%) of those in hospital are vaccinated

(smallprint in that headlines article)

 

It also notes that virus levels in the vaccinated are similar to those in unvaccinated.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-58112093

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

In contrast to the many misleading headlines, including the BBC and many others, which sacrifice clarity for attention grabbing, heres some facts

Note the headline says 'what causes the rare blood clots' and 'associated with some covid vaccines

 

Not some misrepresentative fear mongering miss-used garbage like 'Vaccines cause blood clots' with the clarification that its rare and only in some buried beyond where anti-vaxers and q-anon have the capacity to read

 

and if anyone resents/resembles that remark - look to yourself not me for the problem and solution.

 

WWW.NEWSCIENTIST.COM

Johnson & Johnson covid-19 vaccines have been paused in the US after rare reports of blood clots, similar to those linked with the AstraZeneca...

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Worth a look

 

WWW.EURONEWS.COM

Forget COVID PCR tests up your nose. Getting tested with a simple puff of air might be the diagnostic tool of the future.

 

 

Dogs are better

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

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Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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The FT are saying that the government want pharmacies to sign up to give booster vaccinations from the autumn, alongside flu jabs. They hope this will enable some hospital based clinics to close and the staff to go back to trying to clear the backlog of treatment.

 

I understood pharmacies can't give Pfizer jabs because of the low temperature storage they need. So will it be restricted to AZ and other vaccines that don't need super-freezers?

 

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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We've been receiving txts from surgeries saying flu jabs were ordered last year and are on schedule so dont book them elsewhere ....

 

read behind those lines

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“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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As you say though HB, few surgeries have the capability for Pfiser,

and when the larger one near us had pfiser last time they reserved them for their own patients.

 

I will still be having my flu jab at my surgery, but pfiser booster wherever i can get it

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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