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    • If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.
    • I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.   Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.   [ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]
    • Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:   19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include: ... iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold] Victims' Right to Review Scheme | The Crown Prosecution Service WWW.CPS.GOV.UK   I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.   If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.   I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...   [Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]
    • @Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .   Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler.    He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.   You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.   My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed    I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 
    • I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.   I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.     But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.   One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it.    (I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)   Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS   I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.   I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.   One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?
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Johnson must have either switched off the pingapp or simply not report it, putting everyone else he comes into contact with at risk to suit himself as usual

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Exclusive: PM continued tour of Scotland despite at times being ‘side-by-side’ with official, source says

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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possibly why he refused to see Nicci - she'd cut his nuts off

- although he has been to see Kwasi Competent and many many others inc head of Scot Tories

 

.. waiting

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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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The rules seem to be out of the window if you're part of government. Do as we say, not as we do.

 

Alok Sharma seems to have done his 30 flights this year without doing much if any quarantine and he went to six red list countries. With him they said it was OK because he's a crown servant? Must be another system we haven't heard of before.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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On 06/08/2021 at 13:05, unclebulgaria67 said:
NEWS.SKY.COM

Coronavirus levels in people with the Delta variant are similar regardless of whether they've been vaccinated - and it "may have implications for...

 


That is half the story, though, UB.

 

IF infected, similar levels.

True, but if you are less likely to get infected if fully vaccinated.

 

So, vaccines still good, but Delta variant gives similar levels with breakthrough infections.

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Everyone noticing the dropping number of infections being reported

.. and the rising number of hospitalisations and deaths?

 

So is it a 7-11 day delay between infections and hospitalisation?

I certainly hope so, but have severe doubts.

 

In about a week, even if sage doesn't tell us (no surprise there), we will see if the hospitalisations and deaths (hopefully a smaller increase) continue to increase

 

If so it almost certainly means infections are not being trapped, although there is a small possibility its as a result of more serious infections in fewer people.

I am already utterly certain that infections are not being identified by lft tests due to reduced symptoms in the inoculated.

 

 

 

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Less people are reporting for testing ?  They may have been double vaccinated, so if they feel slightly ill, they don't think it is Covid ?

 

And those not vaccinated, who either think they have had Covid before so have anti-bodies or have not had it think they won't become seriously ill as young, fit and healthy.

 

Government have signalled  that Covid is coming to an end and we can return to normal. They have just said people need to be cautious, sensible etc. This was debated on here at the time of the decision, where I said I thought they lifted Covid measures too soon and should have kept masks.

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BBC News - Covid in Sydney: Communities feel under siege as troops deployed

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

Residents say they're being treated like second-class citizens to stem a Covid outbreak.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Less people are reporting for testing ?  They may have been double vaccinated, so if they feel slightly ill, they don't think it is Covid ?

 

and even those who are testing with lfts getting false negatives - might be down as low as 10% effectiveness in identifying infections even at peak infectiousness now

 

2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Government have signalled  that Covid is coming to an end and we can return to normal.

 

yes - mingling, infecting spreading mutating more

 

2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

And those not vaccinated, who either think they have had Covid before so have anti-bodies or have not had it think they won't become seriously ill as young, fit and healthy.

 

 

Or thats is all a scam

- Did they ever think otherwise until they got sick?

 

 

Newer strains apparently twice as infectious, almost twice as deadly

So despite claims of half as spreadable in the inoculated (which new strains appear to be bypassing)

- the twice as spreadable nullifies that and is still double in those not inoculated - including kids

 

Twice as deadly as the original strain (perhaps more with kids) - but apparently  10-20% as deadly in the inoculated

 - but crucially - maybe twice (or more) as deadly for kids and the un-inoculated

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Who information on variants

 

WWW.WHO.INT

 All viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, change over time. Most changes have little to no impact on the virus’ properties...

 

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Australia becomes a Prison colony again ?

 

NEWS.SKY.COM

The change is part of emergency biosecurity laws to help stem the transmission of COVID-19 - but there is debate about whether it is...

 

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Does that mean Johnson and Patel will be shipping 'undesirables' there?

Join the queue

 

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

I've been doing some thinking rationalising what I think I know about vaccinating younger folk.

 

1. Despite the pfiser generating more anti-bodies, it seems that its more common to feel ill after the O/AZ - not sure why, and that seems to be what those close to me experienced.

 

2. A number of the negative effects associated with vaccines appear to be MORE associated with inflammatory (over zealous) immune responses and would likely be  the same or probably worse if they got Covid itself

 

3. Younger (healthy) folk seem to tend to generate a lot more anti-bodies as a response to the vaccines - seen this confirmed in tests from the US and Israel

 

4. During early O/AZ tests, one of the strange results was that a half dose seemed more effective - until it came out that the test group was predominantly younger

 

5. The single dose vaccine seems to work by having a lot more vaccine in one dose ... I've taken that one off MY use list until i have reason to think otherwise

 

6. More vaccinations with less vaccine may well be a better solution generally given the fall off in anti-bodies after 3-6 months

 

 

So why are we not giving what might be classed as a half dose to healthy younger folk? (maybe even everyone except those who need more) (apart from that it hasn't been requested for approval - and (very strangely) appears not to have been 'officially' tested

- There seems to be some indications and evidence to suggest:

 

* It would be at least as good or perhaps more effective overall

* Would cause less 'over zealous' immune responses

* Would vaccinate twice as many people

 

 

Note

Vaccinating others in the world aside for the moment

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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1 hour ago, tobyjugg2 said:

More vaccinations with less vaccine may well be a better solution generally given the fall off in anti-bodies after 3-6 months

 

I know people who have been asked to send in blood for antibody testing but they aren't given specific results, only that they do or don't have antibodies.  We know that antibodies aren't the whole picture and I have yet to see anything definitive which says boosters are needed at all.  Would make more sense to me if we get to a stage where boosters are tailored to specific strains (like the flu vaccine) but is more of the same proven to be necessary or effective?

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, hightail said:

We know that antibodies aren't the whole picture and I have yet to see anything definitive which says boosters are needed at all.

 

 is more of the same proven to be necessary or effective?

 

Vast  amount of white space there HT (removed in quote) - or is that my browser?

 

Depends what you mean by 'definitive'. That COVID antibodies fall of over time after vaccination, and that level of antibodies is clearly defined as the current benchmark for vaccine effectiveness seems pretty definitive, until something better comes along.

 

Yes, so far, more is better up to a certain level - and the booster six months after 2nd jab is reported as returning antibody levels to around those at about 2-3 weeks after 2nd jab in both pfiser and O/AZ.

Doesn't seem to make them higher - unless you know differently?

If thats not effective - its news to me.

 

That lower but maintained levels of anti-body may be better - is my point - but I'm quite sure (until something contradicts what I've seen so far) that the fall off of levels at 6 months, certainly in the O/A, reduces resistance significantly and IS reported as an issue.

 

I will be having a booster - preferably pfiser.

 

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

The ONS has reported over 150,000 deaths in England and Wales so far with Covid mentioned on the death certificate

Almost 50,000 of which were in care homes

 

I can report a couple of local care homes are having repeated confirmed outbreaks and lockdowns over the last 6 weeks or so - but no definitive COVID deaths, with a relative of mine infected and come out of lockdown with nothing other than very minor issues - not bad for someone in their mid-eighties with a number of health issues.

 

The outbreaks are apparently ALL from un-vaccinated staff going into the care homes despite regular lfts

One home is now telling staff to get vaccinated or they wont have a job

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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11 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Depends what you mean by 'definitive'. That COVID antibodies fall of over time after vaccination, and that level of antibodies is clearly defined as the current benchmark for vaccine effectiveness seems pretty definitive, until something better comes along.

It's the easily measurable benchmark but haven't we had the discussion on here that we don't have measurable antibodies in our blood forever for things we're vaccinated against though we do continue to be protected? 

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13 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

The ONS has reported over 150,000 deaths in England and Wales so far with Covid mentioned on the death certificate

Almost 50,000 of which were in care homes

 

I can report a couple of local care homes are having repeated confirmed outbreaks and lockdowns over the last 6 weeks or so - but no definitive COVID deaths, with a relative of mine infected and come out of lockdown with nothing other than very minor issues - not bad for someone in their mid-eighties with a number of health issues.

 

The outbreaks are apparently ALL from un-vaccinated staff going into the care homes despite regular lfts

One home is now telling staff to get vaccinated or they wont have a job

 

 

That's the same as France, except that it was the government that said nursing and care staff had to be vaccinated.

 

As of Monday, to go to a bar or restaurant, even sitting on the terrace, you have to either be fully vaccinated or have a negative PCR or antigen test.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

with a relative of mine infected and come out of lockdown with nothing other than very minor issues - not bad for someone in their mid-eighties with a number of health issues

That's fantastic - was it pre or post vaccination?  Could be a great advert for getting jabbed.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, hightail said:

It's the easily measurable benchmark but haven't we had the discussion on here that we don't have measurable antibodies in our blood forever for things we're vaccinated against though we do continue to be protected? 

 

Can you supply some evidence supporting that please HT?

 

The bodies defense mechanisms are immensely complex and T-cells among others are involved in longer term protection, but anti-bodies are the first line of defense that we know most about at the moment at least regarding Coronavirus.

Our knowledge is growing albeit (strangely) very slowly IMO - but the reports from the trials seem quite definitive and certain that the lowering levels of anti-bodies ARE an issue, particularly in the midst of a spreading pandemic where you are very likely to come into contact with it

 

That might be less so once the pandemic spread is under control, but I'm by no means certain even of that, and thats a long way off yet.

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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5 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

As of Monday, to go to a bar or restaurant, even sitting on the terrace, you have to either be fully vaccinated or have a negative PCR or antigen test.

Do you know how it's going to work HB?  I'm sceptical about the practicality for nighclubs and gigs here from September - and whether it will apply to other venues.  I've been to the theatre twice in the last week, once in London and once in the provinces.  There were no checks at all, not even the temperature check.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, hightail said:

That's fantastic - was it pre or post vaccination?  Could be a great advert for getting jabbed.

 

infected (confirmed by PCR) weeks past second jab

- in fact might be a couple months now I think about it

 

Edited by tobyjugg2
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"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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HT, it's early days to know if it's working. I'll have a look at the papers a bit later to see if there are any reactions for the last two days.

 

If you mean how is it being put into practice, any premises subject to this rule - and that includes museums, some shops, long distance trains and planes for example - is responsible for checking that the customer has a valid pass sanitaire. This can be on a mobile phone or on paper via the government system.

 

Police can do spot checks and if they get involved, the first fine for a customer who doesn't have a valid  pass is 135€ going up to 000s of euros and a prison sentence, I believe. For the owner of the premises, fines start at 1500€.

 

ETA: Anecdotally, numbers of antigen tests are up because these can be added to the pass sanitaire. But these are free at the moment and will become charging next month. It will be interesting to see the effect of that.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Anecdotally, numbers of antigen tests are up because these can be added to the pass sanitaire. But these are free at the moment and will become charging next month. It will be interesting to see the effect of that

It will.  I do know one serious anti vaxxer and I don't know if they'd be happy paying if that's what happens here.  I do know there seems to be little appetite for checks from the venues themselves and I'd question our ability to enforce them purely because of manpower.  Our police would have had to hit very lucky when I was in the West End the other night as everything was open and functioning.  Very different from when restrictions were in place and fewer people were out and about.

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They only have to refuse entry  - I've known many do that for just the wrong footwear or shirt

 

Whether they will or not, and whether venue owners thing more of 'the more people then more money' and instruct as such is another matter

"vacuous and economically illiterate" "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

“veil of ignorance” "unrepentant and inveterate liar" 

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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The testing 'system' for travellers doesn't seem to be working well, but HMG are making a fortune in VAT,

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Travellers have complained of unfair prices, missed deliveries and slow processing of PCR tests

 

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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