Southern Water/ Shulmans claimform - water and sewerage charges

[maciekj90]

How to carefully word my defence?

How at all word my defence? 

Help very much appreciated.

...and if someone can explain to me what is the risk in defending my case, or any other case like this,  please.

[maciekj90]

I did not get bills from sols yet and my calculation are based on previously received corespondance with SW.

Even Customer service could not explain how it was calculated.

From previous bills I know they included one more year in it which they not mention in Particulars and this to my knowledge would be now SB as the bill is from 01.04.2013.

I guess this is my defence, but how to word it for court, I have no idea.

[unclebulgaria67]

Remember that you are not expected to word it like a trained Lawyer. Keep it simple. Why put anything you might not understand if you were asked about your defence later on in a Court ?

 

I dispute the amount of claim. I have not received detailed evidence from the claimant to support the exact amount of claim. Southern Water Customer Services in a phone call on xx/xx/xxxx were not able to explain the amount of claim. I would query whether amounts subject to statute of limitations have been included. 

 

If you sent a CPR letter for evidence of claim and they have not responded, then also state that in your defence. 

 

As I understand it, you owe something. It is the amount that needs to be worked out and you are seeking an agreement to repay over a period. So that is something between you and Southern Water to agree between you. The defence is just to register that you dispute the claim amount to avoid a CCJ. That then gives time for parties to seek agreement.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Particulars of claim for reference only

 

The Claimant is a statutory water and sewerage undertaker pursuant to the Water Industry Act 1991(the Act).

The Claimant claims the sum £969 for unpaid water and/or sewerage charges payable under s. 142-144 of the Act and the Claimants' Charges Scheme.

The unpaid sum of £969 is for water and/or sewerages provided to the Defendant(s) at

.....(address) for the period 01/04/2014 to 08/07/2015.

The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year  from 08/07/2015 to 11/06/2019 on £304 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of the judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.21

 

What is the total value of the claim?

£1423

 

#####Defence#####

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

2. It is admitted that I have in the past resided at xxxxxxxxx up until 2009 which is serviced by the the stated Utility Supplier for water and/or sewerage.

 

3. It is denied that I am indebted to the value of £969 and dispute the amount claimed as as I no longer resided at the property.It is admitted that I continued to use the address for correspondence only.

 

4.The claimant refuses to disclose statements or breakdown of how or from when the debt allegedly accrued and is therefore put to strict proof to quantify the charges and true dates.

 

5.. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, the claimants claim for the alleged amount is denied.

 

 

 

Edit to suit as I have not read your thread  in full.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

thanks andy

 

dx

[maciekj90]

Thank you to all of you.

 

Question to point 2 of Andyorch response above.

 

If I put there that I resided there till 2009, which is is the truth, coz that is the time when I moved out from there, would this unnecessary complicate my response?

 

Should I actually state the date 07.2015 as end date, as I was still keeping it as my correspondence address till then and for SW its make me responsible for water charges?

[AndyOrch]

 07.2015.....even if you did move out in 2009 I assume you was still responsible for water fees up until 2015 ?

 

Or not ?

[maciekj90]

It all looks like I was, even if I would think I wasn't.

 

[AndyOrch]

Not true...its simple...either you informed the Water company that you are no longer responsible from 2009... the house was empty or you had tenants who would be responsible for payment or not ?

 

Sorry if your repeating yourself bu t I have not really digested your thread and just wanted to get a defence ready in time to submit today

[maciekj90]

The house wasn't empty there were tenants living there, but I've kept it as my address on all my official dealings like bank, car etc.

[maciekj90]

And my name was on the tenancy, I have no prove to show that I was living somewhere else.

 

[maciekj90]

I think I should just accept my responsibility for it and just removed what is possible to remove.

[AndyOrch]

Hold on let me just run through the thread..... you was a tenant...wa you subletting or was it multi tenancy ?

[maciekj90]

It was nothing official, it was bunch of friends s to start with.

I was a main tenant.

[AndyOrch]

But your LL knew you had moved out in 2009...so obviously the remaining tenants or new tenant would have become responsible for the water fees.....or even the LL himself.

 

I have edited the defence slightly as there is no case of statute barred....its a disputed defence only on the amount claimed...its not denied that you you do owe something but not the amount claimed......submit it and it will buy you sometime and possibly further mediation attempts by the claimant.

[ericsbrother]

did you at any time between 2009 and 2015 tell the landlord or water co you had moved out?

As you appear to had no proper tenancy it cant be proved you were responsible if you did tell someone

[AndyOrch]

1 hour ago, ericsbrother said:

did you at any time between 2009 and 2015 tell the landlord or water co you had moved out?

As you appear to had no proper tenancy it cant be proved you were responsible if you did tell someone

 

 

Fair point EB 

[maciekj90]

I did call SW in 2014 after I discovered default on my file, but they asked for new address which I couldn't provide, as I wasn't really living anywhere else.

So they ignored it and sent me financial support pack, which I did not requested.

 

On their notes from the phonecall is no mention about me telling them that I do not live there. And recording is only kept for 6 months.

 

As a tramping track driver you spend most of a time in the track, and you don't need permanent place to stay.

So it was a little bit with my GF, motorhome and sister in all that time. So I had to have some fixed address for corespondance, banking and other things.

 

And I still had tenancy agreement there, as LL was happy to keep it this way, but it wasn't official that someone else living there, in the agreement respect. 

Other people been on Voters register there, banking and all the rest.

 

[maciekj90]

Hi, 

Last week was very busy with corespondance regarding SW claim.

 

First was confirmation from Court, that they received my defence, then from Shulman's that they no longer act on SW behalf as SW take over from now on. 

 

Then on 25/07 I get letter from SW saying they do not going to accept my defence if I do not provide acceptable proof that I was not living there, and as for bills requested in CP13 they refering to emails as confirmation that I already received them prior to the claim.  

 

This is true however the claim amount/dates do not match with bills and that's why I need clarification from them what they using as  a base for calculation.

 

I'm going to upload the letter once I make it ready for public forum.

 

[AndyOrch]

The court decides if a defence is viable and acceptable ...not the claimant.

 

As for any changes if its just the Solicitors changing the claimant has to inform the court.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part42

 

Andy

[maciekj90]

It was the proper form with court mention on it and new address for corespondance. 

 

As for response to the defence they refering to my last telephone conversation with them. 

 

I'll upload it soon.

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Then on 25/07 I get letter from SW saying they do not going to accept my defence 

 

[maciekj90]

I better upload the letter  than writing from memory.

[AndyOrch]

Yes ...the devil is n the detail

[maciekj90]

"I am in receipt of your defence in respect of the above mentioned claim and respond accordingly. 

 

I note the basis of your defence is that you moved out of the supply address in 2009. However, I have 
noted that you appear to be unsure of the dates you occupied the property. On 6 February 2019 during a call to Southern water, you advised that you were at the supply address 2003-2008 or 2009 or 2010. 

Unfortunately, you have never provided documented proof of your move out, together with a forwarding address. 

 

During a telephone call to this office on 11 July 2019, you advised me that you have kept all your personal accounts, such as your bank account, registered to the supply address and frequently return to the property.

At the time of the call you were unable to confirm that you could provide any details of where you had been living, following you move out. 

 

It is further stated in your Defence that Southern Water have failed to provide copy bills or a statement breakdown.

However, I have obtained emails between UK Search Limited and yourself, whereby you 

have acknowledged receipt of bills and a statement of account. 

 

Under the circumstances, I must advise you that I am unable to accept your Defence, unless you are able to supply legitimate proof of you move out from the supply address and documents relating to the 
forwarding address. 

 

I look forward to receiving any documentary evidence you are able to provide, at your earliest convenience. 

Yours sincerely"

 

This is the text of the letter without addresses, case numbers, names etc.