TORT Notice applied to my car. Housing Association car park **RESOLVED**

[stu007]

Hi

 

Yes you can send the Formal Complaint by email just ensure in the Subject ling to put Formal Complaint and in the email itself and if you can ask for a read receipt.

 

The reason I say to send a SAR asking for all data held is you may be surprised at what they have discussed about you.

[king12345]

Find out that they're not the land owners, then send a final communication stating that if the interfere with the car you'll be reporting them to the authorities and seek substantial compensation.

Then just hope they carry on with their threats.

[repressed]

Because advice depends on who owns it. If the HA doesnt own it, they cant do a thing. We've already said that. If they do, then they can issue a notice advising you to remove it within a certain timeframe, or they will.

 

Right now, you or us, do not know 100% who owns the land, so nobody can give you concrete advice. Look at it from the HA side. For all they know, it could have been dumped.

 

One thing in your favour, as already said, is that NOTHING that they have said is in your TA.

 

From Monday, I only have 4 days before the HA say they will remove my car and destroy it.

It's just not feasible to fix and MoT my car by then.

 

I appreciate your advice but my TA must count for something or the HA wouldn't of quoted terms of the TA that don't exist in my TA.

 

 

I don't have a term which says I can place a fridge or setteee in the car park and a car park is not where a fridge or settee would normally be kept.

 

If I had a garden bench in the communal grounds and there is nothing in my TA which says I can not have a garden bench but the HA say I must get rid of it, the bench is still my property and the HA must give me an opportunity to removed it myself.

 

This is what the Tort notice is for, but normally applied to abandoned property, to give fair warning, give the HA a defence and prevent the HA committing a tort when they remove, sell or destroy my bench.

 

But I have a TA which says, as a resident I can park my car in the residents car park, there is no term which says my car must be roadworthy, taxed, mot'd and insured, this must trump that of the HA and landowner or what's the point of my TA ?

 

I would guess that its the insurance that's troubling them.

 

if it caught fire etc etc and it damaged other peoples 'whatever' they'd have to cough up.

 

not that 'they' could force you too get insurance mind.

 

If that was the case why are HA tenants not made to take out home insurance, more chance of a fire in the home than a car bursting into flames.

 

And if this was the real reason why has the HA not said this, rather than say my car is abandoned because its untaxed and quoting terms of the TA which are not stated in my TA.

 

I would of thought HA's have to have their own insurance for this very reason, just on the off chance a uninsured car does burst into flames and burns down the estate, as I cant see how the car owner can be liable for something thats out of their control.

 

Hi

 

Yes you can send the Formal Complaint by email just ensure in the Subject ling to put Formal Complaint and in the email itself and if you can ask for a read receipt.

 

The reason I say to send a SAR asking for all data held is you may be surprised at what they have discussed about you.

 

Yeah, will do this and send it first thing in the morning and asking for acknowledgement of email, I'll follow this up with a phone call to ensure email received at correct dept on Monday.

 

I've made a few formal Complaints to HA over the years, so I have a good idea.

 

Find out that they're not the land owners, then send a final communication stating that if the interfere with the car you'll be reporting them to the authorities and seek substantial compensation.

Then just hope they carry on with their threats.

 

To an extent, I've already done this on Wednesday morning, saying the HA don't have lawful authority to remove my car, my car is not abandoned and there are no terms in my TA which says my car must be taxed, mot'd and insured and I've followed legislation and declared my car as SORN.

 

I've also said I will hold the HA liable for any loss or additional cost incurred and any damage caused.

 

Not received a reply yet.

[stu007]

Hi

 

I know it may be a pain but everything you have already asked and the added information put it all in that email Formal Complaint and don't just ask put them to proof

 

Yes your Tenancy Agreement with the Housing Association is a Legal Document and then stating it's in your TA as above ask then for full clarification of this.

 

Ask for clarification as to whether the Housing Association is either the Landowner or just Managing the Car park.

 

You use your Tenancy Agreement and there Policies and Procedures (when you get copies of them againts them, have they followed them)

 

Who is the Housing Association

[brassnecked]

Don't know if this is of use but Flintshire council took away a BMW on SORN from outside a tenant's flat as an abandoned vehicle and had to pay compensation and had a tolchocking from the Ombudsman for maladministration.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45879154

 

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/16988154.flintshire-council-mistakenly-scraps-mans-prized-bmw-while-he-was-in-hospital/

[king12345]

I would go back to the police station, ask advice and note the officer's collar number.

Then send another email to the HA with these details.

Maybe , knowing the police opinion would deter them to delay their action, giving you more time to sort it out.

[renegadeimp]

Front desk on most stations are civilians now. To speak to an actual officer you have to ask for a sergeant.

[king12345]

Not in greater London.

Never seen a civilian in any front desk

[repressed]

Don't know if this is of use but Flintshire council took away a BMW on SORN from outside a tenant's flat as an abandoned vehicle and had to pay compensation and had a tolchocking from the Ombudsman for maladministration.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45879154

 

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/16988154.flintshire-council-mistakenly-scraps-mans-prized-bmw-while-he-was-in-hospital/

 

Thanks for link, I'll make reference to this in my next email to HA.

 

I would go back to the police station, ask advice and note the officer's collar number.

Then send another email to the HA with these details.

Maybe , knowing the police opinion would deter them to delay their action, giving you more time to sort it out.

 

When I called the Police, I was put through to Divisional HQ of the Roads Policing Unit I to spoke an Inspectior, I have his name, but cant remember if I got his number, but he said my details and details of my call have been noted.

 

I've already told the HA what the Police have said, which dept and who said it.

 

Hi

 

I know it may be a pain but everything you have already asked and the added information put it all in that email Formal Complaint and don't just ask put them to proof

 

Yes your Tenancy Agreement with the Housing Association is a Legal Document and then stating it's in your TA as above ask then for full clarification of this.

 

Ask for clarification as to whether the Housing Association is either the Landowner or just Managing the Car park.

 

You use your Tenancy Agreement and there Policies and Procedures (when you get copies of them againts them, have they followed them)

 

Who is the Housing Association

 

I rather not say who the HA is, I don't want my location pinpointed.

 

I've searched my HA website for the TA and terms which they say are in it but I can't find anything.

 

There are no terms in my TA which says cars in the car park must be roadworthy, taxed mot'd and insured.

 

 

It's not a pain, so easy to just copy and paste into a new email.

 

At the moment I don't think it's important to know who the landowner is, as it's my landlord the HA who is making the demands, using terms of the TA which don't exist and I'd rather dispute that.

Edited November 27, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[Gick]

Ranks of Inspector and above do not have a collar number.

[repressed]

Thanks, that explains why I don't remember getting his number.

Edited November 27, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[king12345]

Forget about the number, you have his name.

Remind the HA of what this inspector told you and his advice was in an official capacity and logged, just in case they think it's your mate and said this after a few pints down your local boozer.

As I said, once you tell them, you just have to hope they interfere with your car, then you'll be quids in.

[renegadeimp]

Not necessarily.

It all depends on who owns that land.

Then it comes down to the contract which doesnt have the terms, although the HA's current does.

Its not black and white, just yet.

Edited November 27, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[repressed]

So let's say the HA don't own the land, are you saying my TA is worthless and the terms or the lack of them, are meaningless ?

 

Also, if this is an issue with the landowners permission, why has the HA not said this rather than use terms of the TA as the reason ?

[stu007]

If the HA is not the Landowner then they would need the Landowners consent to carry out any enforcement action as you have already with the TORT notice within the time limit informing them that it is not Abandoned and is legally declared SORN.

 

You are also correct to harp on about the Tenancy Agreement as if your present Tenancy Agreement has no mentionof this then you need to challenge this by asking them to clarify exactly which clause in your Tenancy Agreement states this as you need then to confirm it in black and white not just say it's in your TA.

 

Also ask them for clarification on which Housing Legislation gives them the authority to ask you to provide your vehicles Mot, Insurance etc if this is not a Residents Only Permit Area.

 

If they say X is black, Y is white, Z is orange and they are correct how do you know they are coreect without any information to back up there claim. Challenge they to provide you with the exact clause, policy, procedure, legislation as without this you don't know if they have followed there own Policies & Procedures.

 

If you don't want to name them on the Forum you can PM a Site Team member

[repressed]

I wouldnt say I'm harping on about my TA, it's the focus of my post and justification for parking my SORN car, with no Mot and insurance in the residents car park, it's all I've got.

 

 

I dont wish to say which HA it is, even to a Site Team member.

 

 

Other than two phones calls to HA, all questions I've asked are by email, I've also asked HA to reply by email only.

 

I've asked the HA to provide proof of the terms of TA they refer to which says cars in car park must be roadworthy, taxed, mot'd and insured.

 

I asked what legislation gives the HA the authority to demand I tax my car?

 

I've asked what legislation gives the HA the authority to threaten to and or remove, sell or destroy my car (quoting Reg No) when I've already informed the HA by email on many occasions that my car is not abandoned.

 

 

Since the Tort notice was affixed to my car, I've sent the HA 3 email type statements declaring I'm the Owner and keeper of my car, quoting it's Reg No every time I refer to my car.

Each statement says I'm a resident and my TA says I can park my car in the car park and my car (Reg No) must not be removed, sold or destroyed without my permission.

 

I also said, legislation does not require Vehicle Excise Duty be displayed.

 

I've said the HA has no legally authority to remove my my car(Reg No) without my permission and if my car is removed by

anyone instructed by and or acting on behalf of the HA, I I will hold the HA liable for any loss, additional cost incurred and or any damaged caused.

 

None of these emails got any reply but 13 days after the TORT notice was affixed to my car, I did finally got a reply.

The person dealing with it was supposedly on annual leave and not passed the case onto anyone else, so 13 days wasted.

 

Also, when the HA does reply, it's always on a Friday afternoon.

 

The HA reply ignored all my statements and points made in earlier emails and asked for documents to prove my car is taxed mot'd and insured, saying if documents not received, my car will be remove and destroyed on the 28th.

 

So on Weds 21st, I've sent a more robust email demanding Tort notice be cancelled as my car is not abandoned and to confirm cancellation of Tort notice in writing by email.

 

I made similar demands requesting proof of the terms which HA are quoting and proof of the legislation which give the HA authority to remove and destroy my car when my TA says I can park my car in the car park.

 

This email also included details of all council depts, with names of who I spoke to and contact details, which confirm the car park is not an adopted highway but private property.

 

I also included the information I got from the Police and the Inspectors name and contact details, quoting what he said about theft should my car be removed without my permission.

 

I again quoted, legislation does not require Vehicle Excise Duty be displayed.

 

I finish by saying, I do not authorised the removal of my car(Reg No) and anyone instructed by and or acting on behalf of the HA, I will hold the HA liable for any loss, additional cost incurred and or, any damaged caused.

 

I'm yet to receive a reply

 

I've since rewritten my last email as an Official Complaint, which I will send on Monday morning.

 

 

All I can do is await a reply.

[stu007]

ok you don't want to name the Housing Association so I will ask you this question instead is your Housing Association a Charity?

 

If they are they come under Charity Regulations as well as Housing Legislation

[repressed]

I wasn't aware of this until you asked but their website says,

A charitable registered society under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014.

 

Will this help my situation ?

[repressed]

I've come across a statement within an email from the HA which I missed, which says... as your car is parked on land belonging to the HA...

 

Is this anything to go on ?

[renegadeimp]

Possibly. But its like a PPC. Theyll say its their land or it belongs to them, when infact it doesnt. Do you have anywhere thatyou can move the vehicle to while you sort all this out?

[repressed]

No, no where to park car in meantime, also it's an issue moving it, its got no tax, Mot or insurance.

Catch 22 really, probably cost £45 to move on car transporter and if I did manage to find somewhere off road to park it, for say a month, that'll be another £50, plus the cost of returning it to my car park if & when its all been sorted.

[king12345]

Don't know if it works, but long time ago I read that if you put a rainproof cover on your car, nobody can see the number plate and the car is clearly not abandoned.

Might work out cheaper than other options.

Just move it to another part of the car park and remove the plates before covering.

Others will advise on feasibility of such thing, just throwing it in there.

[Gick]

What a stupid suggestion!

 

All it will do is confirm to the Housing Association that you believe the vehicle should not be parked there. If the number plates are removed it will increase the claim that it has been abandoned.

 

You need to do what others have previously suggested and obtain definitive clarification from Land Registry as to whom is the Landowner of the car park area.

[repressed]

I was convinced I held all the cards as the clause HA say is in my TA isn't, but still no reply. even after formal complaint today.

 

If it was for any other reason, why issue the Tort notice saying abandoned / untaxed car and only quoting a term which HA says is in my TA ?

 

Only reason I haven't contact Land Registry is not because of my awkwardness but due to time constraint, HA didn't reply to my calls and emails for 19 days (not 13) and because Tort notice says abandoned/untaxed, I thought it was just a matter of saying to HA, don't worry, it's not abandoned and its SORN, job done.

 

I certainly didn't expect such a heavy handed approach, especially as I've lived here for 16 years without issues.

I can't understand why HA didn't write to me first to discuss it rather than just slap a Tort notice on it.

 

By time I posted on here and told to find out who the landowner is, and after speaking to the Land Registry, I only have 4 or 5 days before the Tort notice expires and the first application to Land Registry for type of search I need, has to be sent in by post and I assumed returned to me by post.

 

I didn't know of the importance or difference it will make knowing who owns the land but it seems that if HA dont own land I'm in a worse position ?

 

My car is not some old wreck with flat tires, it's old but a future classic and other than the repair for its MOT, which cant be seen unless on a ramp and you know what you're looking at, it looks no different to any other car.

 

One of my neighbour has a old wreck, not as old as my car but it's a absolute mess, looks like a wing, rear light and exhaust are hanging off, either tied on or stuck on with tape, it supposedly called a rat look car but engine, brakes, suspension are all top notch, well looked after and no expense spared and his car not classed as abandoned.

[king12345]

If HA don't own the land you'd be in a better position because only the landlord can act (or someone with authorisation from landlord)

My suggestion to cover the car was open to further advice, as stated, it's something I read a long time ago and don't know if true or if it would work.

Apparently not.