Is this lawful?

[SammyJo2]

Hello.

 

Today I was instantly dismissed.

 

 

I was handed a letter which stated my contract would terminate immediately but that i would be paid in lieu of notice.

The letter (or piece of paper) said there was a variety of reasons.

 

 

There is no history of disciplinary or any other action which would have given rise to this.

I have been there for 3 years.

I am on a permanent not a fixed term contract.

 

 

I was treated a bit like a criminal and escorted off the premises.

This was humiliating as there is no rhyme or reason for it.

Is this lawful?

[fkofilee]

Welcome to CAG

 

It would be hard to say - What reasons did they give to you on the letter or otherwise verbally?

[SammyJo2]

the letter just states a variety of reasons.

verbally they said it was budgetary and a variety of reasons. nothing else.

 

 

if i was pushed to say why i would say there were a couple of the management team members who felt that i had too much control over things they didn't understand - if that makes any sense.

[fkofilee]

Yes it does very much make sense to me... You have the know how and the skills in numerous areas yet they dont understand

 

Its a bit of a gray area - Also aswell would you mind contacting me via PM regarding your Username?

[BazzaS]

Hello.

 

Today I was instantly dismissed. I was handed a letter which stated my contract would terminate immediately but that i would be paid in lieu of notice. The letter (or piece of paper) said there was a variety of reasons. There is no history of disciplinary or any other action which would have given rise to this. I have been there for 3 years. I am on a permanent not a fixed term contract. I was treated a bit like a criminal and escorted off the premises. This was humiliating as there is no rhyme or reason for it. Is this lawful?

 

There are 2 main areas to your query.

The first is "Is my dismissal lawful", and the second "If the basis of my dismissal was lawful, is the manner of my dismissal (pay in lieu of notice, escorted off the premises) lawful".

 

I'll leave others to comment on the first ; they may need more details of "the variety of reasons", though!.

 

The answer to the second is that there is nothing in law preventing that manner of dismissal, and indeed, in some jobs ; it is the norm.

So, in jobs with access to a database that could be useful to a competitor that might be copied, or indeed jobs such as casino croupier where there can be concerns of disgruntled employees facing dismissal collaborating with customers: pay in lieu of notice and being escorted off the premises is the 'industry standard'.

[CrappoMan]

If the OP has been employed for 3 years,

their employer shouldn't instantly dismiss for any reason,

 

 

they should use the procedures laid down in the ACAS code of practice on Disciplinary & Grievance Procedures,

or they may find that an Employment Tribunal will deem the dismissal as unfair.

 

Even paying PILON doesn't excuse the employer from following the 'ACAS code',

they should follow a proper disciplinary procedure.

 

If the OP wants to take this further, they may need proper legal advice on their options.

[dx100uk]

gross misconduct?

[CrappoMan]

Even GM requires a fair disciplinary procedure should be followed (suspension/investigation/disciplinary meeting).

There are very few exceptions to this rule, usually involving a threat to people/property, and even then the ET may not find it automatically a fair dismissal.

[dx100uk]

urm..

I know of several people that were immediately escorted off site under GM without any prior knowledge or comms from their employer

particularly theft issues and embezzlement issues.

[SammyJo2]

There isn't anything like this at all.

Nothing at all.

They even let me take work laptop home to remove personal stuff from it.

[Emmzzi]

read this

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1797

 

get a copy of your employer's disciplinary policy/ process

 

decide what outcome, other than reemployment, works best for you

 

come back and ask more questions

[sangie5952]

I agree.

The other things are: you are entitled to written details of exactly why you have been dismissed.

Write and ask for them. "Other things" isn't an acceptable explanation!

 

Also, one thing to clarify here please.

There was no discussion or indication about this happening before this.

 

 

Because actually, this isn't instant dismissal

- it is dismissal with notice, and they just don't require you to work it.

 

 

So, was this something that happened at a meeting?

If so, what were you told that meeting was about?

Any discussions about redundancy prior to this?

Or anything else?

 

Also, how large is the employer?

[SammyJo2]

They asked me to come see them at the end of the day.

There was no discussion of redundancy beforehand.

The company has less than 100 employees.

 

 

Looking back their intent has been clear for a little while.

I was asked to write out in detail everything I do and all my passwords for the various systems as part of a risk planning exercise as well as spend time with other people showing them how to do things.

 

I've read the ACAS information.

Can I ask what the importance is from where I stand from a legal standpoint of instant dismissal vs dismissal with notice.

 

I haven't said thank you to everyone who has responded.

I really do sincerely appreciate your responses.

As you can imagine my head is all over the place.

 

Also thank you for the username thing - I wasn't thinking clearly when I signed up.

[BazzaS]

I've read the ACAS information. Can I ask what the importance is from where I stand from a legal standpoint of instant dismissal vs dismissal with notice.

 

Sangie has (correctly) covered this : it wasn't "instant dismissal"

 

Because actually, this isn't instant dismissal - it is dismissal with notice, and they just don't require you to work it.

 

Your focus should be on "was the dismissal lawful", not "was it without notice".

[Ethel Street]

Can I ask what the importance is from where I stand from a legal standpoint of instant dismissal vs dismissal with notice.

 

Instant dismissal (ie without either giving notice or pay in lieu of notice) is normally only lawful if you are 'guilty' of Gross Misconduct. As they've given you notice (pay in lieu of) that suggests that the reason for your dismissal is not Gross Misconduct.

 

I agree with others that it's the reasons for your dismissal you need to focus on. You may need more advice than can be given here.

 

The manner of dismissal - pay in lieu and being escorted from the premises immediately - is common in many industries and is legal. In my last job it was actually written into our contracts of employment that the company could require us to leave immediately (with pay in lieu).

 

Are you in a union?

[SammyJo2]

No. I'm not in a union.

Ironic that I never thought it necessary.

And now I understand the difference and importance in what i've been looking for answers on.

[ericsbrother]

you need to write an appeal against the dismissal and go into the ACAS code as to why. If you want your job back you should say so otherwise state what you want as a settlement. On the face of it the method given make for unfair dismissal but that wont win you a jackpot payout probably another fortnights money.

[sangie5952]

I doubt that the "why you should be in a union" speech will now be necessary! Don't forget the lesson!

 

Based on what you have told us (because there are always two sides to a story, and we only have one here) this would certainly appear to be unfair dismissal. Whether it would have been a redundancy (had it been done fairly) is irrelevant now because they have simply dismissed without any adequate explanation. I do think that a formal letter asking for the reasons for your dismissal would be wise. I am not convinced about appealing - all trust and confidence is now broken, and I'd be looking for a lot more than a fortnights pay! Giving them the chance to realise they have screwed up and pay you off or give you a couple of weeks pay isn't really a good idea. I would be initiating pre-claim conciliation with ACAS immediately, with a firm intent to claim unfair dismissal unless they offer me enough to be satisfied - including a VERY good reference and money. Tribunals no longer costs anything, and if that fact has passed them by, it will soon catch up with them.

 

As a broad guide, average awards at tribunals are based on recompensing for loss of income (and loss of income until you get a job or a job that pays the same to some extent). An average award would be in the range of £6-7k. But the average for unfair dismissal is around £12 -13k. So anything between £6k and £13k is a "win" and anything below that is an insult! A couple of weeks wages I would stuff down their throat!

 

While your memory is still fresh, write down every single detail you can remember about what happened - the entire sequence of events including being asked for passwords etc (that shows intent). Names dates and all. And ANY paperwork that supports your story, get it safe.