Marston HCEO Final Notice for son's unpaid fines - NOT MINE!

[JoJo45]

Hi all

 

I have today received a letter and discovered that my 20 year old son has debts totaling nearly £2000 which Marston say are for unpaid fines for not paying for several train fares after getting caught with no ticket. The letter says their client is "HMCTS Manchester".

 

I called Marston and they say they will attend my home tonight and unless I can prove with receipts items are not mine they will take them as my son's and I will have 28 days to prove they are mine to get them back.

 

My son lives at home and has nothing and all items such as TV etc are mine and not his. How can they taken them?! It doesn't seem right.

 

Is my car at risk as well? Should I move it and hide it? It's in my name only and has nothing to do with my son.

 

I know that the HCEO can't break into my house but can open via an open or unlocked door so I won't be answering when they call but I am still scared.

 

Please can you help?!

 

Thanks in advance.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

As you say, these aren't your debts so I'm sure a solution can be found. I expect the forum regulars will be along later with advice for you.

 

Best, HB

[unclebulgaria67]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

As you say, these aren't your debts so I'm sure a solution can be found. I expect the forum regulars will be along later with advice for you.

 

Best, HB

 

Not an expert.

 

Best way forward is your Son contacting Marstons to come to a payment arrangement. If needed, he should send them wage slips/benefit information together with living expenses details, so the amount he can afford can be assessed.

 

Your Son should have had letters from the court and a notice of enforcement from Marstons. If he has not had documents from the court, he can attend the court to make a statutory declaration and come to an arrangement with the court.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi all

 

I have today received a letter and discovered that my 20 year old son has debts totaling nearly £2000 which Marston say are for unpaid fines for not paying for several train fares after getting caught with no ticket. The letter says their client is "HMCTS Manchester".

 

I called Marston and they say they will attend my home tonight and unless I can prove with receipts items are not mine they will take them as my son's and I will have 28 days to prove they are mine to get them back.

 

My son lives at home and has nothing and all items such as TV etc are mine and not his. How can they taken them?! It doesn't seem right.

 

Is my car at risk as well? Should I move it and hide it? It's in my name only and has nothing to do with my son.

 

I know that the HCEO can't break into my house but can open via an open or unlocked door so I won't be answering when they call but I am still scared.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Given that the debt relates to Magistrate Court fines, the enforcement agent is permitted to use force to gain entry. This is an exceptional step but unfortunately, but nonetheless, it is a step that is used.

 

You have started your post by stating that you have received a letter. I assume that it is your son who has received the letter?

 

For the avoidance of doubt, an enforcement agent is only permitted to take control of goods belonging to the debtor (who is your son). Given that he is just 20 years of age, then common sense alone will tell you that your son is most unlikely to own any of the goods in the property.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

I have today received a letter and discovered that my 20 year old son has debts totaling nearly £2000 which Marston say are for unpaid fines for not paying for several train fares after getting caught with no ticket. The letter says their client is "HMCTS Manchester".

 

My son lives at home and has nothing and all items such as TV etc are mine.

 

Your son is only 20 years of age and appears to have more than one conviction for travelling on a train without paying.

 

Given that he lives at home, he should have received the following documents:

 

A summons

 

Notice of Fine & Collection outlining the amount that he had been fined.

 

Failure to address the matter at that stage would have led to him being sent another letter entitled: Further Steps Notice. That notice would have warned him that a warrant would be issued with bailiff fees of up to £310 being added to the debt!!

 

He should also of received a Notice of Enforcement from Marston Holdings for each debt.

 

Did your son receive any of these letters?

 

Do you know whether he contacted the court at any time?

 

Is your son working?

 

PS: Please be assured that you are not responsible for paying these debts. These are your son's debts and only his goods can be taken. Given the size of the debts, I would suspect (and hope) that the enforcement agent would realise that your son cannot pay and will return the warrants back to Marston Holdings and they in turn will return the case back to to HMCTS Manchester. This will at least allow your son to make an application to the court for a 'Means Hearing'.

[Ell-enn]

Might be a good idea to get a statutory declaration done - you can get this done at a local solicitor - they should be able to do it almost straight away (can't remember the fee but it's probably £10 -15). You would show this to the bailiff (make sure you keep copies) I have affixed a draft SD for you to amend - get it done asap. If you are married then you need to put both names where there are XXXs in the letter.

[mariner51]

Make sure your son is at home when the Bailiffs call.

You may have to provide sales receipts for anything you claim is yours.

[Bailiff Advice]

I have affixed a draft SD for you to amend - get it done asap.

 

The link doesn't appear to be working for me?

[Ell-enn]

The link doesn't appear to be working for me?

 

Hi, can you open the affixed? if you can't edit the PDF you will need to type it out and take to Solicitor/Notary[ATTACH=CONFIG]68657[/ATTACH]

Statutory Declaration.pdf

[JoJo45]

Thanks all, sorry about the delay in getting back to you all!

 

The HCEO agreed to not come round until tonight as he could tell I was upset yesterday.

 

I will get my son to sort out his own mess, but I need to know if the HCEO can can my possessions or car? Nothing in my home belong to my son.

 

The HCEO said he could take anything in the house and I need to prove within 28 days that it is mine and not my son's. is this correct as it seems backwards to me!

 

I will not be letting the HCEO into my house but need clarification please about what he can/can't take for this debt that isn't mine.

[JoJo45]

Make sure your son is at home when the Bailiffs call.

You may have to provide sales receipts for anything you claim is yours.

 

After this all happened he no longer lives with me. His room is now empty apart from my furniture.

[JoJo45]

Your son is only 20 years of age and appears to have more than one conviction for travelling on a train without paying.

 

Given that he lives at home, he should have received the following documents:

 

A summons

 

Notice of Fine & Collection outlining the amount that he had been fined.

 

Failure to address the matter at that stage would have led to him being sent another letter entitled: Further Steps Notice. That notice would have warned him that a warrant would be issued with bailiff fees of up to £310 being added to the debt!!

 

He should also of received a Notice of Enforcement from Marston Holdings for each debt.

 

Did your son receive any of these letters?

 

Do you know whether he contacted the court at any time?

 

Is your son working?

 

PS: Please be assured that you are not responsible for paying these debts. These are your son's debts and only his goods can be taken. Given the size of the debts, I would suspect (and hope) that the enforcement agent would realise that your son cannot pay and will return the warrants back to Marston Holdings and they in turn will return the case back to to HMCTS Manchester. This will at least allow your son to make an application to the court for a 'Means Hearing'.

 

Thanks.

 

Yes he had all of that and hid it from me and ignored it.

 

He will have to deal with the consequences of this himself, but thank you for the help!

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks.

 

Yes he had all of that and hid it from me and ignored it.

 

He will have to deal with the consequences of this himself, but thank you for the help!

 

Trouble is that if your Son does not deal with this, Marstons may force entry into your house, if you did not let them in peacefully. These are Magistrates fines, so forced entry is allowed.

 

Once inside the Marstons agent may try to bully you into dealing with your Sons fines. They may try to get you to make a payment, under the threat of taking goods in your house that you don't have paperwork proving you own them. Most people don't have receipts.

 

Yes this is a bit naughty, as the fines are not yours and the household goods are obviously yours. But if you do your research, Enforcement Agents try to bully payments out of relatives on a regular basis. No point phoning the Police, as they will not intervene.

 

You really must get hold of your Son and tell him that unless he deals with this, court Enforcement Agents will force entry to his Mums house to remove goods that belong to her.

[Ell-enn]

Have you done anything about the Statutory Declaration ?

[Bailiff Advice]

 

The HCEO said he could take anything in the house and I need to prove within 28 days that it is mine and not my son's. is this correct as it seems backwards to me!

The above comment is a very popular one for bailiffs to quote and even more so, to parents when seeking to enforce a debt for their young son's or daughters. Fortunately, the comment has many flaws:

 

If a bailiff comes into my home, can he take goods belonging to anyone?

 

No, the enforce agent may only take control of goods belonging to the debtor (which in this case, is your son.

 

Can the bailiff assume that all the goods in my house belong to my son or daughter?

 

It's not as simple as that. The bailiff, in order to protect himself from a complaint to his employer or more seriously; to the Court, will need to have good reason to believe that the goods that he is seeking to take control of, belong to the young son or daughter and on this point, common sense alone would tell the enforcement agent that the household items within the property would almost certainly not belong to a young 20 year old !!

 

If the bailiff were to seize goods from my house, what could he actually take?

 

Note a lot really. Under the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, many household items are exempt from being seized by a bailiff.

 

Which household items are exempt?

 

The following is a list of the exempt household items as outlined under Regulation 4 of the above legislation.

 

items or equipment (for example, tools, books, telephones, computer equipment and vehicles) which are necessary for use personally by the debtor in the debtor’s employment, business, trade, profession, study or education, except that in any case the aggregate value of the items or equipment to which this exemption is applied shall not exceed £1,350;

 

(b)such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment, items and provisions as are reasonably required to satisfy the basic domestic needs of the debtor and every member of the debtor’s household, including (but not restricted to)—

 

(i)a cooker or microwave;

 

(ii)a refrigerator;

 

(iii)a washing machine;

 

(iv)a dining table large enough, and sufficient dining chairs, to seat the debtor and every member of the debtor’s household;

 

(v)beds and bedding sufficient for the debtor and every member of the debtor’s household;

 

(vi)one landline telephone, or if there is no landline telephone at the premises, a mobile or internet telephone which may be used by the debtor or a member of the debtor’s household;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/regulation/4/made?view=plain

[JoJo45]

Thank you.

 

That is very useful and a big relief. I panicked that the HCEO could take the lot!

 

I've managed to fend the HCEO off for a few more days and am going to try and get my son to deal with this and sign a stat dec etc but it won't be easy.

[Ell-enn]

YOU need to sign the Stat Dec, not your son! it's your property you're trying to protect - you need the Stat Dec notarised by a solicitor then take copies so you can hand one to the bailiff (through the window - don't open the door!)

[Homer67]

I note that you have stated that your son no longer lives with you at that address - you need to contact the council and get him removed from the Council Tax (if there is no one else with you then this may qualify you for a single resident discount as well).

 

You then need to write to Marston and tell them that your son does not live at your address and they are therefore to cease all attempts to contact him there.

[JoJo45]

YOU need to sign the Stat Dec, not your son! it's your property you're trying to protect - you need the Stat Dec notarised by a solicitor then take copies so you can hand one to the bailiff (through the window - don't open the door!)

 

Thank you for your help.

 

I've fended them off for now and am working on the Stat Dec for myself.

[JoJo45]

I note that you have stated that your son no longer lives with you at that address - you need to contact the council and get him removed from the Council Tax (if there is no one else with you then this may qualify you for a single resident discount as well).

 

Good idea, thanks.

 

 

You then need to write to Marston and tell them that your son does not live at your address and they are therefore to cease all attempts to contact him there.

 

I have tried this already and Marston originally said they don't care and that they can still get a locksmith to force entry into my house but they've gone quiet over the last few days.

[unclebulgaria67]

Good idea, thanks.

 

 

 

 

I have tried this already and Marston originally said they don't care and that they can still get a locksmith to force entry into my house but they've gone quiet over the last few days.

 

Think you need to remind your Son that failure to pay Magistrates court fines can lead him being sent to Prison. He might not realise the consequences of not attempting to pay the fines.

[Homer67]

Good idea, thanks.

 

 

 

 

I have tried this already and Marston originally said they don't care and that they can still get a locksmith to force entry into my house but they've gone quiet over the last few days.

 

If Marston could do that then they would just get on with it and do it. You have notified them them that your son no longer lives there and that should be enough for them to stop harassing you as it is not your debt and you can never be made liable for it.

 

As a belt and braces backup I would write to Marston one more time using recorded and signed for delivery stating that you have already informed them that your son no longer lives at your address and you cannot enter any further dialogue with them as the debt is not yours.

 

Make sure you keep copies of your letters and if they turn up ring the Police and explain to them you have notified Marston he is not at your address and you are not obliged to grant them access to check. You could allow the Police only to come in and check and they could report back to Marston (who should wait outside) on their findings.

[Ell-enn]

Thank you for your help.

 

I've fended them off for now and am working on the Stat Dec for myself.

 

It's certainly a good idea to get that done as soon as possible. Don't forget to take copies ( you keep the original and give |Marston's a copy).

[Peterbard]

I know that this is a couple of days old but. How would a council tax bill addressed to the owner, prove if the debtor was living there?

 

Also if this is a fine,

Why does the OP keep referring to the HCEO ?