Cabot/mortimer claimform - OHs old EGG Loan debt - prob SBd

[pluribus]

Name of the Claimant ? Cabot Financial UK Ltd

 

Date of issue – 1 Jun 2017

 

What is the claim for –

1.By an agreement between IDEM Re Egg Banking Plc & the Defendant

on or around 16/8/2005 ('the agreement') IDEM Re Egg Banking Plc agreed to loan the Defendant monies.

2. The Defendant did not pay the installments as they fell due & the Agreement was terminated. The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant.

THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS 1397.53

 

What is the value of the claim?

1547.53 (inc fees of 150)

 

Is the claim for - personal loan

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? before - around 2003-4

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Cabot

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? NO

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?No

 

Why did you cease payments? Payments were being taken by direct debit, unaware payments had stopped, no notices received for lack of payment at any time

 

What was the date of your last payment? Exact date unknown at present, sometime prior to 2010

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management planicon?

No financial problems, no need to contact creditor, no need for debt management. They stopped taking payments and did not inform us we were behind

 

 

 

 

Hello

 

I received a county court claim form in the post today from Cabot.

I will fill out the details I know you need in the next post.

 

I'm doing this for my wife, who is in bits now because of this form.

I'm trying to calm her down but he is scared witless.

 

She did take out a loan over 10 years ago with Egg, but that was sold to another company when Egg got out of the personal loan business and I think we only had one more letter from them after that. This is the only one we've received since.

 

 

Bank accounts and direct debits have not changed in over 20 years and she always pays her debts on time. I don't think she has ever missed a payment for anything.

 

I work at home and as such, very rarely ever leave the house.

No-one has come knocking at the door about this

- or any other - debt in the 10 years I've lived here.

 

Can someone lease assist me, I have no idea what I'm doing and we cannot afford solicitors.

 

Thank you in advance

 

Ian

[BazzaS]

You have plenty of avenues for defence, including if they hold paperwork sufficient to enforce any agreement through the courts.

 

However, these may be superfluous, as from the greater than 6 years between when you last made a payment (or rather when a payment was missed, and their 'cause of action' arose) and when they've started the claim, if the date of last payment is correct, you have an ABSOLUTE defence in that the claim is 'Statute Barred'.

 

So, reassure your wife, and tell her to calm down.

 

You'll need to do some procedural things, and make sure you don't slip up and let them get a default judgment, but provided you pay attention to the timescales for submitting responses to the court, this should be straightforward to 'bat away'.

 

More to follow shortly, but show this to your wife, reassure her, and lets get her a bit calmer!.

 

Procedural stuff :

 

You'll need to make an 'acknowledgement of service' (AoS) of the claim. You could submit a defence with your AoS (especially if the defence is 'statute barred'), but submitting the AoS in time then buys you more time to submit a defence.

 

Some may disagree (saying using anything other than 'statute barred' makes claiming its 'statute barred' look less reliable), but IMO there is nothing wrong with being prepared for discovering a later payment was made, and having "in the alternate' defences up your sleeve, and you want to get as much info as you can to prepare the most robust defence, that may even get them to withdraw.

 

Cabot are supposed to comply with a 'pre-action protocol' before issuing a claim. They should have written to you setting out what they think they are owed and why. When you write (to their solicitors) asking for sight of the documents relating to their claim (under CPR 31.14), make sure you demand a copy of this too.

They may well claim they don't have to comply with CPR31.14 as it is likely going to be a small claims track case, and that would be true if the case had been 'allocated' to the small claims track. Just because it is LIKELY to be a small claims case doesn't mean CPR 31.14 doesn't apply, unless and until it actually has been allocated (and hopefully they'll withdraw before that stage when they see you aren't going to be a push-over / or allow them a default win).

 

The CPR 31.14 goes to their solicitor, and a CCA request (for the paperwork for the loan under the Consumer Credit Act) goes to the claimant, Cabot. (For good measure you can also SAR the original lender, Egg, in case it shows anything that further weakens the claimant's case).

 

CAG doesn't encourage debt avoidance, and part of you may be thinking "if I owe as a result of defaulting on a loan, I should pay".

 

Firstly, find out if you did owe anything. Then consider that the original creditor will have written off any such debt, if it ever existed, by selling it on. Then consider how much Cabot will have paid (pennies in the pound?), then consider if Cabot have a good claim and how they've behaved (including the effect on your wife of today's claim form out of the blue).

If at the end of that you still feel "I owe someone, something", let CAG help you bat away Cabot, then consider:

a) a donation to CAG if you feel you have something on your conscience to salve?, and / or

b) helping others who face the same, by posting on CAG!.

[Sidewinder]

This should be easily defeated - your wife can rest assured, although Cabot are unlikely to roll over without a bit of argy-bargy in the meantime

 

First things first you need to go onto the MCOL website and acknowledge the claim. Tick that you intend to defend the claim in full. Leave the jurisdiction box unticked and save.

 

Get a CCA request off to Cabot and a CPR 31.14 request off to the solicitor named on the Claim form. Probably also worth phoning Egg to establish the exact date of the last payment to the account

 

If as you believe there have been no payments since 2010 or before then the above may well be superfluous anyway as the Claim would be barred by the Limitation Act, but no harm in getting as much information as you can

 

Very unlikely that you will receive any paperwork before having to file a defence, and in that case you would submit a SB defence backed up by the lack of any paperwork

[BazzaS]

Thanks, Sidewinder .... we've cross-posted a bit....

I hope dx doesn't mind me quoting their useful (standard) summary post, noting the same

 

std procedure then..

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

 

dx

 

Also, OP : check your credit file (experian / clearscore etc.).

I'm not expecting you to find anything on there,

but if it is clear it is further confirmation there isn't anything showing for the last 6 years .......

[dx100uk]

I wouldn't bother with CCA/CPR

just do the AOS on MCOL.

 

its statute barred

IND debts always are

 

just go CHECK [poss ring Canadian square operations numbers on here somewhere]

and ask last payment date.

DO NOT RING THE CLAIMANT NOR THE SOLS [who are the solicitor - restons?]

 

 

dx

[pluribus]

Thank you all for your help. I am printing the letters off now and will get them sent off in the next 30 mins. Luckily there is a post office here still open in the afternoons so I can get the postal order and recorded delivery sorted today.

 

I will also get a copy of my wifes credit report to check the details on there too.

 

I will keep this thread updated with my status.

 

I really appreciate the help given already

 

Wife is much happier now

 

Ian

 

dx100uk said:

I wouldn't bother with CCA/CPR

just do the AOS on MCOL.

 

its statute barred

IND debts always are

 

just go CHECK [poss ring Canadian square operations numbers on here somewhere]

and ask last payment date.

DO NOT RING THE CLAIMANT NOR THE SOLS [who are the solicitor - restons?]

 

 

dx

 

Sorry for my ignorance, what's an IND debt?

[dx100uk]

sorry should read IDEM.

 

 

forget the CCA/CPR no point if the debts statute barred.

as sending those weakens your claim of SB.

 

 

I believe CITI bought all the old EGG loans

then sold them to wither IND DCA or IDEM DCA.

 

 

theres a CITI and an EGG phone number on here somewhere

Canadian square operations

just search for that in the red top SEARCH CAG box of the red toolbar.

 

 

either EGG or CITI will hae the details

of the last payment made

you'll need the original loan number mind.

[BazzaS]

 

forget the CCA/CPR no point if the debts statute barred.

as sending those weakens your claim of SB.

 

Weakens them with who?

The claimant?

The claimant's solicitor?

A judge?.

 

The latter 2 will be used to seeing "in the alternate," defences, without regarding them as a sign of weakness.

(If it got that far!) if a judge agreed it was statute barred on the facts, the alternate defence wouldn't get considered.

A judge wouldn't use the existence of an alternate defence to alter their opinion on if a matter was statute barred - the dates are the dates.

 

I did note that opinions vary regarding "just use SB defence in its own" or "leave the door open for alternate defences".....

[dx100uk]

requesting paperwork is saying

well I don't really know if its sb'd.

 

 

whatever the claimant wants to rely upon must be produced at disclosure stage

its for them to prove NOT SB

rather than for the defendant to prove it is

 

 

anyway

I bet this is CABOT/RESTONS

99% of the SB debts they drop like a hot stone.

 

 

they hoped as they always do for a non contested default rubberstamped judge without human intervention

shame the OP found cag.

 

 

dx

 

 

dx

[pluribus]

The solicitor is named as Mortimer Clarke Solicitors Ltd in Worthing.

 

I'm a bit confused now.

I've gone through my wifes bank statement looking for the date of last payment and it looks to me like the debt was transferred to Britannia Moorgate (the amount of £142 paid to egg stops and they take over the exact same amount the following and subsequent months).

 

On 6th February 2012 a payment of £100 was taken by Moorgate Loans.

Nothing after that.

We didnt know this was taken until we checked just now.

 

if I understand this right, this means its not statute barred?

And if so, the CCA and CPR letters are useless?

Sorry, I really dont understand... I've not sent them yet, just in case.

 

I've just checked my wifes Noddle report and Cabot updated a default on 30-04-2017.

The date given on the default is 19-03-2012.

They've also spelled her middle name wrong which is annoying!

 

Ironically,

my wife works in the building next to Cabots

and I drive past it when I occasionally drop her off.

Now I know what they do there!

[BazzaS]

If those dates are correct : not statute barred.

 

The CCA and CPR31.14 then become more relevant : the aim is to find out if they hold an enforceable agreement.

[dx100uk]

Ok baz. Not on me server so pop that instruction text up again and that'll get them sort ed

 

Dx

[BazzaS]

Ok baz. Not on me server so pop that instruction text up again and that'll get them sort ed

 

Dx

 

I can still see my quote of your instructions higher up the thread (post #5?, the one timed 12:59 anyhow)

[AndyOrch]

A CCA request (section 77/78/79 must always be made on receipt of a court claim irrespective of whether its statute barred or not.

 

Also there is a vital error in the claimants particulars.....

 

 

1.By an agreement between IDEM Re Egg Banking Plc & the Defendant on or around 16/8/2005 ('the agreement') IDEM Re Egg Banking Plc agreed to loan the Defendant monies.

 

The debt was assigned to IDEM...so there is no agreement between.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[pluribus]

OK, I will send off the CCA and CPR letters on monday now as the post office has closed.

 

Is there anything else I can get prepared for Monday too?

 

Ian

[renegadeimp]

Read andy's post. It's important

[dx100uk]

A CCA request (section 77/78/79 must always be made on receipt of a court claim irrespective of whether its statute barred or not.

 

 

I though when we had one of our serial disrupters on most legal threads some many months ago and this came up...

it was put down as pointless advice, as it matters not if they hold the agreement, ?

 

the fact that its statute barred negates the question of if/if not they hold such paperwork?

makes no odds at all?

 

or was that for CPR?

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

CPR dx

[dx100uk]

thanks

[pluribus]

Just a quick update to say I posted the letters yesterday morning recorded first class. I also submitted my AoS at the same time. I will make a further update as soon as I get a reply from either of them. Thanks for all your help so far, I really appreciate it.

[dx100uk]

do NOT miss your defence filing date NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS

[pluribus]

Quick update -

 

I received a letter from their solicitors a few days after I posted on to them, stating that my wife does owe the money, but offering no proof. They also said they would request the documents we needed and put a hold on the court action until it was received.

 

They did not put a hold on the court action.

 

This morning I contacted the court again to check and they confirmed the defence has to be received by today or a default judgement would be entered.

 

I know I left it late, but I'm doing the moneyclaim defence online right now.

 

Still no reply from Cabot at all. Nothing. I believe the solicitors lied so I would fail to file by today and they would automatically get a default judgement.

 

If Cabot can prove there is money owed, and it has legally been assigned to them, I will happily pay it. We don't shirk our debts in this house. But being heavy handed like this, going straight to court before contacting us and lying in order to get a default is wholly unacceptable in my eyes.

[AndyOrch]

Claimants cant put a court claim on hold..you was warned in post#23 above...pity you didn't post this letter to your thread on receipt..rather than today.

 

Better get a holding defence drafted PDQ and post here to be checked.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

and the letter does not say they are putting the court case on hold

read it properly.

[pluribus]

Hi - Just a quick email with a final update (I hate it when people start threads and dont follow through!).

 

I filed the claim defence on time and a few days later got a letter from the solicitors saying they were looking into the claims I made in defence and would get back to me shortly. About a week later I received a letter from them stating they were unable to produce any documents as required and as such, were cancelling any action and removing my wifes details and closing the case with no further action.

 

We won!