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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Hi thanks for the advice.

 

The other is from Barclaycard signed in 2000 .

 

I have the credit agreement with a signature

but this time there are no terms and conditions enclosed with the agreement nor on the actual application form .

 

I do once again have correspondence from Barclays and Link regarding the sale of the debt.

 

I have attempted with both original lenders and with Link to settle the debts on behalf of my partner as she is stressed with the situation

 

Link require around 60% of the outstanding sums and i do not have the money available to do that and support us both and pay all the household bills.

 

Many Thanks

 

Andy

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When did you last make payments on both accounts ?

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She pays both accounts £1pcm and has done for the past 20 months on the advice of cccs

 

Ah.. so you have kept the accounts open by making token payments :(

 

What makes you think they may be unenforceable ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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The Barclays account in particular is dated 2000 .

 

 

I have read that many of the agreements dated as far back as then do not have enough terms and conditions on the credit agreement and it is by a long way the most uncomprehensive agreement i have seen .

 

Outside of that clutching at straws to be honest ,

like i said i would have settled them for her had they been able to meet me at a slightly lower per centage but my understanding is link are less likely to negotiate downwards than others.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi

 

This morning i received a SAR from Barclaycard with lots of printed statements. However the CCA was not in the pack .

 

The debt has been sold to LINK who have complied with a CCA request and i have a year 2000 agreement which i will add soon , that is signed by me but no terms and conditions.

 

The purpose of the SAR was to see all the documentation to figure out where i stand with DCA .

 

There is also no documentation in the SAR in relation to the sale of the debt.

 

Is there anything further i should do with BARCLAYCARD please ?

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Hi I have now added the PDF CCA i received from LINK

 

It was dated 2000 and to my untrained eye is far less comprehensive than other CCA i have had in more recent years.

 

I wanted to see from Brclays SAR if there was any additional paperwork connected with the CCA , in order for hopefully someone on here to determine how good or bad the CCA is.

 

Thanks

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There is no obligation to provide an agreement with a SAR, the ICO take is although one might expect the agreement to be supplied there is no specific obligation to doso, sections 77/78 CCA 1974 cover this.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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in general.

'one might expect the agreement to be supplied'

because according to the ico's own guide as to what is data subject to a dsar,

an agreement/application doc which has personal info on it such as name/address would be regarded as data (just like statements/letters etc are).

 

 

but is a 'guide'.

up to the creditor.

so, the 'specific obligation' ie the statutory requirement rests under the con credit act request.

 

 

ironically though they can send a recon under that (but if they do have/can find an original they are likely to send a copy of it).

plus,

the poss legal implications of a cca request are more relevant eg no accurate response could mean no court enforcement until satisfied. so, always do a cca request as well.

Edited by Ford
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My information is from a personal phone coversation with the ICO, the statement that there is ''no specific obligation'' threw me at first

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Hi Andy,

 

As well as considering the enforceability of your a/c, you should make sure you reclaim all PPI if applicable and all penalty charges plus interest in restitution.

 

Do you have the data to do this now.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Hi thanks for the post they have sent details for two older accounts aswell , i have nver agreed to PPI owing to a bad experience years before and i don't have many if any penalty charges although i will look closer.

 

All of which makes me wonder why would Barclays sell the debt on so swiftly ?

 

This morning i found the original documentation that came from Morgan Stanley when the card arrived , there are no terms and conditions or references to the Consumer Credit Agreement but a further tear off section to apply for PPI which was alreday ticked as NO on application form .

 

Thanks

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Hi Andy,

 

Please check carefully for any penalty charges. Reclaimed with compound interest in restitution, they can add up to a tidy sum.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

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  • 3 years later...

Hi this is an old Barclaycard debt that they did not default before selling on to IDR and managed by LINK

 

The last payment on the account was 4 years ago

 

A default has bow been placed by IDR

 

However when asking for the CCA they reffered it back to Barclays who provided one for an entirely different account , absolutely nothing to do with this one.

 

2 questions

 

1. In order to get a default does the creditor need to supply the CCA ?

 

2. In order to prosecute via the County Courts do they need to supply the correct CCA and if they start proceedings with the wrong one , do i just go to court and argue its the wrong CCA or alert them ?

 

Many Thanks

 

Andy

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1.no

 

 

2. if they are that stupid you don't tell them anything, your new CCA/CPR will expose the farce.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you

 

The DEFAULT has been added 4 years after the account fell in to arrears and was sold .

 

1. I assume if i win at County Court i can ask for the default to be removed ( still has 4 years to run ) and that they can not commence proceedings again for the same debt ?

 

2. If i never goes to court . Once i have gone 6 years without paying anything to this debt , can i apply to get the Default removed on any grounds ?

 

Thank You

 

Andy

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is this your OH's one

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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you have the sar details

I would expect Barclays defaulted this years ago...

unless they didn't, but defaulted it before sale to link? 2013

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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look in the comms or account log.

 

 

DEFDATE= or something like that

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Looking through the SAR I could not find any codes , however there was a letter dated June 2011 from Mercets . It's a default notice .

 

Regarding the CCA I got one back from Barclays but it's got the wrong card .

 

The 2011 default notice dies not show on any credit files however .

 

Andy

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