Tax Refund Error

[zebra1950]

Hi

I am new to these forums and would appreciate some much needed advice, because in May of this year (2016) I got a letter from the HMRC saying that I was entitled to a tax refund of £2500 as I had applied for the married mans allowance, which I duly accepted,

 

but then I got a letter this morning 19/11/16 stating that I owed them £2300, which I was totally shocked by, as I strongly believed that I had been awarded the rebate and it had been backdated, as I dont really understand tax affairs,

 

I am going to strongly appeal against this as I feel the HMRC are the ones responsible for this error, and failing that I will take it to the financial ombudsman, but can anyone tell me what are my chances of a successful appeal

Edited November 19, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[renegadeimp]

Have you checked all calculations first before you make a complaint, and also asked HMRC to check as well?

[zebra1950]

Hi renegade

I havent got a clue when it comes to tax calculations as I just assume that they, the (HMRC) have got all the whizz kids working for them,who should know about my tax affairs as I have supplied them with all the relevant information.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Would you be able to can up the letters and calculations you've had please, minus any identifiers? That way people who know more than you and I do could comment.

 

My best, HB

[zebra1950]

Hi Honeybee

I will try to sort out the paperwork and do what you suggest, also could I ask one more thing, if I am unsuccesful and have to pay it back whats the longest time they will allow, eg, would I be able to pay it back over 3-5 years

[renegadeimp]

stop worrying about that, and cross that bridge when you come to it. Focus on getting that info together.

[zebra1950]

Hi Renegade,

I have just taken a couple of photos of the two tax notifications that the HMRC has sent me, the one from May 2016 showing that they owed me over £2500 and the one from November 2016 wheras I now owe them over £2300, but its all gobbldee gook to me, wonder if you or anyone on the forums can make any sense of it.

Regards zebra

 

 

[zebra1950]

Hi Again Renegade

I forgot to mention that I think that the confusion lies with me having two separate tax codes, one for my State Pension and the other for my Occupational Pension and those guys at the HMRC are well aware of this, but I think its baffling them as well, but it was they who sanctioned these codes in the first place, I've had more hassle from them since I retired than when I was working.

zebra

[renegadeimp]

Have you rang them and asked whats going on?

[zebra1950]

I am going to ring them first thing tomorrow morning and strongly dispute this, as it is THEIR mistake not mine.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I'm sure that whether it is their mistake or not, if you have been overpaid, it will have to be paid back.

Proving their mistake may just buy you more time paying it back, but you will have to pay it back.

You may find they just adjust your tax code to recoup it.

[*RainbowTears*]

I am going to ring them first thing tomorrow morning and strongly dispute this, as it is THEIR mistake not mine.

 

Sounds a right pitb atm....

 

Do make sure you have all your paperwork to hand & record the call, this is so that any other mistakes made by HMRC going forward can be referred back to your call.

 

Hopefully you can get this sorted in your favour!

 

Good luck...

[zebra1950]

Hi Grumpy

I disagree with your comment to some degree as I had applied for the married mans allowance, so I genuinely thought that this had been backdated for all the years I have been married so it was a genuine mistake on my part, but they, the (HMRC) are supposed to be the brains when it comes to tax calculations as they had all the relevant paperwork regarding my tax affairs, but I suppose you're right and I will have to pay it back but I will have a good go at disputing it. Zebra

[zebra1950]

Hi Rainbow

Thank you so much for your support, I really appreciate this.

Regards Zebra

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Hi Grumpy

I disagree with your comment to some degree as I had applied for the married mans allowance, so I genuinely thought that this had been backdated for all the years I have been married so it was a genuine mistake on my part, but they, the (HMRC) are supposed to be the brains when it comes to tax calculations as they had all the relevant paperwork regarding my tax affairs, but I suppose you're right and I will have to pay it back but I will have a good go at disputing it. Zebra

 

To some extent, I disagree with my comment too. Their mistake, they can suck it up and deal with it.

Its just in reality, the tax man wont let it go. Its not his money, its public money and they will want it back.

[zebra1950]

Hi Again Grumpy

I've been given this debate some thought, this is definite negligence on their part and whichever employee of theirs dealt with this mis-calculation, then they should be responsible for paying this back from their salary instead of landing me in debt, because my son manages a licensed social club and if one of his employees or in fact himself, accidently gives too much change, then they are responsible for paying that money back to the till.

Zebra

[ericsbrother]

Ok they have several sources of income, the biggest difference is the £10k ESA and lack of employers pension on the later letter. Did you actually get that? I can see how they arrived at the tax due figure but there is a big discrepancy between income amounts and sources.

Also, what is your spouses income? Reason I ask is they havent actually done the tax relief transfer anyway so somehting else to complain about if spouses income less than £9k.

[zebra1950]

Hi ericsbrother,

Thanks for your input on this, I don't know how they arrived at these figures as I would not have received £10k in ESA, it looks like they have mixed up part of my superannuation with this benefit, but its still vague to me, and yes my wifes income is less than £9k per annum, it has really got me bemused on how they work their figures out.

Regards Zebra

[zebra1950]

Hi All

I rang the tax office yesterday and they are looking into it and will get someone to call me back one day this week, I have just noticed on their P800 (Understanding Your P800 Tax Calculation Form) where it states that in some cases they will agree not to take tax from the customer if they have not used all the information supplied and that the HMRC did not act on information which caused their mistake, but then they go on to say, ( within 12 months), therefore giving them a timescale to rectify their miscalculations, so they are covering themselves, very crafty move. Zebra

[ericsbrother]

so do you actually know what your income was and where it came from? They may have made a mistake or they may be right but you are supposed to know how much your earned from various sources because each of them will give you a P46 at the end of the financial year (usually may/jun) Now dig those out and get hold of your bank statements so you can see if the pension and ESA figures are anywhere near correct as I dont believe that you dont know how to calculate if your pension payment is correct or not and saying it is gobbledygook wont impress the taxman and it doesnt impress me.

 

Also, as you have multiple sources of income you would normally fill out a self-assessment tax form to make sure you are paying the correct tax overall. The pension provider will normally be given your statndard tax code and any other income either taxed in full or given its own code to use up the income that is tax free. ESA is paid before tax and most people wont pay tax on it anyway.

 

On the plus side, they only start collection activity if your income is above a certain threshold so you may not have to repay it anyway. An income of roughly £11k will mean that they cant ask for the money back according to some formula they use so it just stays on the system as a debt for ever. You will need to speak to them about this though or they wont put your name into that particular part of the machine and the dca's will be asking you to contact them regarding the debt.

 

Tell us exactly what your income was and from where and it will be fairly easy to do a calculation to give back to the taxman. You can ask the DWP for their breakdown of the ESA and any tax deducted from it, likewise your private pension. Take the state pension as it stands as having no tax deducted.

Edited November 27, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[zebra1950]

Hi ericsbrother,

 

Firstly I am not trying to "impress" either you or the taxman with the gobbley gook wording, and yes I do know what state pension and occupational pension I receive, its just when this marriage persons allowance came into affect last year and I applied, then that, is where the confusion arose from.

 

What I am saying is the HMRC had all the relevant documents regarding my tax affairs, they are the ones who made the error but I have spoken to them over the phone and they are sort of only half admitting the mistake,

 

I have now passed all the information onto AGE UK who are looking into this matter for me, and I have informed the HMRC that I am putting this into dispute, my own personal annual income from both sources are approximately £11.250.00.

 

Zebra

Edited November 28, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[honeybee13]

Hello Zebra.

 

I understand this allowance is paid to couples where one of them was born before 6 April 1935. Is that the case with you please?

 

HB

[zebra1950]

Hi Honeybee,

This wasnt the same allowance as my wife and I were both born in 1950, this particular allowance came out last year and I was genuinely led to believe that this was backdated for all the time we have been married.

Kind Regards Zebra

[hightail]

this particular allowance came out last year

It did and therefore can be backdated for one year if you claim it for the first time this year - can't be backdated for any time before it existed. It's worth a couple of hundred quid per year no matter what the income of the higher earner as only a set amount can be transferred between a husband and wife and only the non tax payer can apply.

https://www.gov.uk/marriage-allowance?gclid=CjwKEAiAyO_BBRDOgM-K8MGWpmYSJACePQ9CQcOiwOy23K6en7hYLFH-MX6urBC9J-7-5iPBiaVV3BoCYWPw_wcB

[zebra1950]

Hi

Reading all these negative postings, it looks very much like I am going to have to pay it back even though the HMRC made the error in the first place.

Zebra :mad2: