unknown Welcome Finance CCJ? - now IND own it? help

[dx100uk]

nothing for you to do

ignore it.

intrum now own ind that's all it was

[Andy111]

Well more development & turn from Intrum.  Having heard from Intrum back in June offering up to a 70% reduction (off the outstanding monies due) if I paid it by the end of July, reducing to a lower discount for the next 3 months were I to settle early etc.  Well of cause I never took them up on the offer as never had the funds and said offer now expired.

 

Now this morning I receive the following letter saying "Our records indicate there is an issue with the repayment plan, which as resulted in your plan being cancelled". With the invitation to call contact them in the next 10 days to reach a solution.

 

Any ideas as barring a recent late payment payment has been made and accepted.  So surely Intrum can't rip up the repayment plan citing "there is an issue" and then suggest I have to renegotiate payments can they?.

 

2019-09-12 intrum problem with IND payment plan.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Write back to them and ask if they could clarify what this issue is or what this payment plan is that they refer to. ?  Inform them you are not aware of any issues as payment is still being made as per the court order dated xxxxx nor are you aware that they have made any application for a redetermination to amend the court order dated which instructs payment of £ on the  x day of each month.

 

For clarity you request that they confirm in writing that they refuse to accept payment or abide by the court order dated xxxxx.

 

 

[Andy111]

Thanks Andyorch will do first thing tomorrow, though difficult to know how to deal with this issue without knowing the nature of the what the "issue" is that they felt is worthy to cancel it. 

 

I made a payment a week ago at the post office without issue (though late but brings things up to date.  I could try another payment this week to see if that gets accepted?. 

 

If it does then they are still accepting payment of sorts whilst I enquire on the issue.

 

But out of interest can they legally just cancel the repayment plan without applying to the courts?.

[AndyOrch]

There is no issue hence my suggested letter...once they receive that they will not be able to respond...read what I have typed......again.

 

There is no payment plan to cancel or to adhere to.....you are paying an amount set by a variation order and endorsed by a court order...they cannot change it or cancel it.

[Andy111]

Ah, I get you Andyorch, so replying as you say aught to be the end of it unless they start refusing payment. 

 

Just funny timing after there early settlement offer expired from a few months ago.  Still, its a debt they bought that by the court order would take a considerable number of years to settle, think decades than years.  So plenty of fun to come over the years and no doubt will be sold on a number of times again.

 

[AndyOrch]

Read their letter again ...slowly ...and all becomes clear....its rather an oxymoron when you break it down..

 

An issue with your payment plan.....there is no issue and there is no payment plan

A payment plan they have cancelled...there is no payment plan to cancel

Its not their intention to  pressurise you and make you pay more but you must contact them within 10 days to reach a solution....well that is direct pressure...they state they have cancelled your plan and imposed a time frame on you to add pressure....and to get you to ring them to communicate...so they can add more pressure.

 

Don't fall for it...draft the letter as advised...attach a copy of the court order re payment.

 

The N245 is a wonderful thing......its even better when the debt is assigned and they are not aware one was made.  

 

 

 

[Andy111]

Once again thanks Andyorch, your breakdown makes their letter and claim rather laughable the way you put it to basics.

 

Though they are fully aware of the court order re payments as it was all mentioned and brought to their attention the last time (when they first bought the debt) they tried to suggest a payment plan needed to be negotiated as there wasn't 1 in place.  It was pointed out payments are subject to and set via the courts & order.

 

I guess this latest round of futile action is as a result of not taking up their early discount offer and the realisation of how long it would otherwise take to clear things at the current rate.

[dx100uk]

open

 

dx

 

[Andy111]

I now wonder if this now might be related to last year's connex letters I and several received?.  As after hearing nothing from intrum for 2 1/2 years last month out of the blue I get 2 letters from them again over this threads issue.

 

Since my last post in here and following previous advice, payments then stopped being accepted for some reason (barcode & account number not recognised I was told) and I was not negotiating anything with intrum and this no payments have been made is about 2 years.  Moved house, contacted everyone re new address yet heard nothing from intrum despite also having been on the electoral roll constantly.

 

2 letters received, neither of which yet responded to or identity confirmed as the correct person,  the first going over their very first letter from early 2019, saying the account is now being "serviced" by them and again inviting me to agree to a payment plan with them, didn't respond.

 

Second letter received last week & unsure on how to respond.

 

The letter is more ramping up with a threat to carry out a number of legal options.  They say about IND may have taken legal action against me & saying how they are now serving the account on behalf on IND.  They repeat about there being no payment plan in place and finished it with them or things will be subject to a review for further action.

 

They also refer to if legal proceedings have been issued previously they might look at continuing with that and if IND have previously obtained judgement then they (intrum) by a number of mentioned methods look to enforce it by a number of methods including:

Attachment of earnings

Warrant of control

Charging order

Order for questioning

Third party debt order.

 

Not to sure on how seriously to take this. As if intrum have bought the debt then can they use the old ind judgement at all?

 

[dx100uk]

Scan up the letters, let us read them, not just your interpretation.

 

Dx

[Andy111]

Thanks for the reply, converted from image to pdf, so I hope this works.

 

 

2022-04 IND serviced by Intrum - no payment agreement.pdf

 

Not to sure on how seriously to take the letters or how to respond. 

 

As whilst both letters at the top make mention to IND and the account owner, everything about these and past letters suggest intrum have likely simply bought the debt and they want to negotiate payments for it afresh despite saying they are now servicing the account.  Yet they never did respond to detail what the issue was with the previous agreement that they had cancelled it, twice.

 

In fact, intrum once sent a letter of offer for an early settlement for as little as £750 odd which suggests they might have bought the debt unknown it had already been to court judgement & order in place.

 

Now if (and it is an if) intrum did buy this debt from IND, well can it not be argued from a legal point that as far as the court judgement is concerned the debt has been settled with them (IND) as they would have accepted payment to buy the debt?.

[dx100uk]

if you remember correctly Intrum (1st Credit) purchased the debt management company IND and all their debts.

 

IND are now a part of Intrum same lot..so the debt has gone nowhere.

[Andy111]

Ah, didn't recall that, thought it was more purchasing of some of their debts.  Can't deny the debt doesn't exist in 1 form of another regadless. Does ind even exist as a company then I wander?.

 

makes unsure on how to proceed & respond now and how likely intrum are to really do much after this long if they really do have an enforceable ccj?.  

[dx100uk]

Let it run.

 

Dx

 

 

[Andy111]

As in just wait and see what their next move is ?.  Likely my preferred option as they have had no response from me yet & they have not even enquired to try and verify the person they are looking for is the correct person and present at the address. 

[honeybee13]

Thread reopened.

 

HB

[Andy111]

Ok, since the last letters received threatening enforcement action in not replied to within 14 days I've received 2 more letters, like the previous ones both received within a few days of the 14 days from which they were dated, seems to be a standard practice for them.

 

The first letter from near 3 months ago again threatening enforcement action unless I reply with it the 3 days of the 14 remaining by the time it was received.  Though with the added extra threat of information provided within that letter that makes things difficult to know if it could help identify me were Intrum to see these posts.

 

The most recent received at the weekend yet again dated 12 days earlier was a N434 form with notice to change solicitors from IND to Intrum to act with regards to the claim and enforcement action and to contact them only from this point to arrange payment etc.

 

Not sure if they are really getting ready for possible enforcement action with the N434 letter.  But if they have an enforceable CCJ, then I just don't see why they have so far failed to enforce it?.  Apparently they can even force me back to court by a previous letter posted here, yet so far no sign of that either.

 

So any thoughts over this?

Edited September 26, 2022 by Andy111

[dx100uk]

its simply a form they have to use if they change sols, nothing to worry about.

 

dx

 

[Andy111]

So previously they were wasting their time with enforcement threat letters where legally they never could at that point if they were not the appointed solicitors over the matter?.

 

So whilst this form in itself is therefore nothing to worry about, does it not mean that they would at least have the correct legal status for enforcement now?  

 

[dx100uk]

On 21/04/2022 at 11:53, dx100uk said:

if you remember correctly Intrum (1st Credit) purchased the debt management company IND and all their debts.

 

IND are now a part of Intrum same lot..so the debt has gone nowhere.

 

you are forgetting again.

[Andy111]

Yes, I get what you are saying, not so much forgetting again, as I'm fully accepting no matter what the debt exists. 

 

But more their ability to take enforcement action, both before (as they claimed they would but failed to) and after the form to change solicitors went to the courts.

 

As in if they can easily enforce it why have they failed to do so in the last 4-5 years?.

 

  I don't want to digress and go over old ground again, but they did cancel the payment agreement without reason that went before the court and was signed off by the judge as part of the CCJ judgement of whatever. 

 

 I've hardly breached the CCJ myself since they stopped the payments and I still have the letter from IND stating they have cancelled it before payments ceased. 

 

Wondering can they therefore claim I've breached the CCJ conditions to enforce it?.

[dx100uk]

If they want to shuffle your debt around within the same group so be it.

 

It may well be that since the buyout, they've decided the original solicitors company are being closed, as they don't need two firms of solicitors within their group 

 

neither one has/had anymore nor any less legal power.

[Andy111]

Ah, so apart from these recent letters then it's unlikely anything much as changed.  But it was more the letter mentioning the charging order option that rattled me somewhat.  That & with this changing of solicitors letter had me thinking what they might be upto.

 

[Andy111]

I've been thinking about my case and past history with Intrum since they took over\bought the debt.  And the 1 thing that's always hugged me to try & look into was that they, the claimant\Intrum cancelled the payments\agreement (or whatever you call what was set by the court judge as part of the CCJ).

 

And I've always wandered if they can simply just cancel (I have it in writing they have cancelled it) the repayments that went before, was set by the court as part on the CCJ and agreed to by IND at the time.  And if not can it be seen or considered as a breach by the claimant?.

 

Now what I've found is not clear, Google comes back with zero info or cases on it a claimant themselves can actually breach a CCJ which I find rather odd.  However what I have come by when trying to search the matter suggests there is a very strict process for either party with regards to such details. And that's called "PART 38 - DISCONTINUANCE"

 

I'm not fully sure what exactly that "Part 38 Discontinuance" means or if it counts for anything or applies with regards to CCJ's.  But if it does it might indicate they can't just discontinue or cancel any part of a claim or agreement without going back to court which they don't appear to have done.  To do so can be a serious matter maybe and a breach of legal process.

 

Not sure if anyone here understands this Part 38 thing or what it might mean if anything.  But would be interested to hear it it could apply to show they legally acted wrong in simply cancelling the payments without first going back to court and then demanding I renegotiate an agreement with them directly?.