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Excellent news that you have copies of the original statements...now you can prove to the court that this DCA is falsifying evidence...and the person that drafted the witness statement is endorsing it.:wink:

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy, this issue has sure been getting on top of me in recent weeks, more than I thought it would. Not to sure on if this is all I'm going to need or dig deeper into the WS and evidence to see if anything else stands out?. But my guessing is that the bank statement evidence I've managed to obtain should be enough in itself on a legal front?.

 

But as I've yet to hear back from the court on the adjournment date I'm unsure on the best course of action right now. Except I'm sure the judge said that in the meantime anything I need to add would need sending to both IND and the court. Just not to sure if I have have to wait for the new hearing date first?.

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Still awaiting the hear from court, going to call tomorrow to say I need directions and new hearing information as I need to file an amended defence seeing as they tried to use the 2013 before any disclosure, point out a possible case of identity theft or other wrong doing by persons unknown and that IND have submitted false bank statement evidence and that I have proof of this etc. By the way, a few pointers from the WS:

 

1-All legal rights transferred to IND June 2016

 

2-CPR 33.2(1)(B), notice to rely on hearsay and won't attend hearing. WS author states no knowledge of account conduct before issue of case. Yet case issue was in 2013 (same case number since). But they don't mention a date of when exactly they became involved knowledge wise just transfer of all rights date. No way to enquire on missing evidence and cross examine points in WS, unfair defence options. Neither is there mention or evidence of a request to the court to rely of hearsay evidence in there absence.

 

3-States claim was issued, yet no date mentioned in this point, 2013 or when lifting stay (never received notification stay was being lifted) late last year. If 2013 why no action until now?.

 

4-Welcome finance account statement mentioned, yet seems very incomplete, not possible to question why at hearing.

 

5-Notices of arrears, funny that no mention anywhere in the WS or disclosure of ever having been served a default notice at any point, just arrears notices and notice before action letter.

 

6-Claimant only demanding arrears and only served arrears notice April 2017, never received, so claim no default notice needed to be issued. Yet claim issued in 2013 not 2017, so 2013 claim was issued before any default notice?.

 

7-Mention claim was issued against me (2013?), no mention of claim date yet they (IND) state they never received their copy so where is original IND 2013 claim as not in disclosure!, might be important or not but clearly missing from disclosure.

 

8-My defence to March 2013 claim, copy (funny how they have that though but not their original claim) mentioned, which clearly states CPR 31.14 & Section 77 request which would have been before case was even allocated. Yet they failed to comply with both requests or offer explanation or claim they did comply with request or even mention the secondary letter for request I also sent in 2013 same week as defence.

 

9-2 year gap to 2015, sates claimed attempted contact letter in April 2015 that they then (April 2015) tried to comply with March 2013 CPR 31.14 & Section 77 request (no such disclosure info received, just letter in disclosure). 2 years to late, breach of legal compliance requirements?. Yet no mention of when they claimed they received CPR 31.14 & Section 77 request. If 2013 they are admitting they failed to complete with notice requirements by 2 years. If at any point between filed 2013 defence and April 2015 they haven't stated a date or included any evidence of a request date!.

 

10- WS author claims evidence speaks for itself, yet missing evidence, incomplete evidence, gaps in timeline, no mention of provision of reason for requesting lift in stay in 2016 and now proven false evidence in the way of fake bank statement I have proof of and signed bank staff letter confirming provided bank statement is not genuine. Any wonder the WS author doesn't want to attend?.

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Another possible indication that welcome finance\IND or persons unknown may have falsified more evidence is the actual signed contract this time!. It always bugged me how IND suddenly pulled this signed contract out of the hat last minute when as said I have signed nothing.

 

As whilst at first glance the signature on this contract evidence looks similar to my own actual signature, mainly in the first letter alone, it doesn't follow along the entire signature much at all. As whilst in the disclosed evidence (same exhibit containing proved false bank statement) part containing the particulars to the apparent agreement there is a very poor copy of my passport with a fairly poor indication of my genuine signature on that passport. Then I realised, I have my new passports to hand in the house.

 

Guess what, the last 3 letters of the signature on the contract does not match how I actually sign my name at all!. Yes, the agreement contract signature looks similar at first glance, right down to the way I angle my writing. But whoever did sign it has been rather sloppy in the entire signature to the point where the last 3 letters are not how I write my signature at all!.

 

This could give more weight to either wrongdoing by welcome, IND, persons unknown, or possible indentity fraud as the bank also thought likely!.

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I would just stick to the " statements "...should be enough to cast doubt over the whole claim.....please be aware you will be lucky if you are in court for 15 mins at the next hearing..so dont think too deep.

We could do with some help from you.

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Maybe Andy, & thanks, would certainly like to think and hope the bank statement proof and cover letter from the bank staff alone would be sufficient.

 

But I would still have to compile my own WS & amended defence and add this bank statement evidence along with anything else I might wish to state. So might be slightly prudent to add as much information and argument in my WS as I can (IND have just over a 4 page WS) in case in the worst case scenario that the judge simply decides to omit the bank statement evidence from IND than throw the case out altogether due to the serious nature of submitting and presenting false evidence to a court!.

 

But certainly feeling more hopefull today than in a few weeks over all this.

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If the court fail to advise further directions...simply submit your witness statement and file and serve..do you have the next hearing date yet?

We could do with some help from you.

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No,

still not got the next hearing date Andy,

and getting rather anxious about it to be honest as its been 9 days since the hearing last week and would have assumed I should have received something from the court by now but nothing.

 

As other than what the judge said on the day about an adjournment for 4 weeks I've not received any further directions.

 

will have to just submit my witness statement and file to both the claimant and court.

 

Going to start to compile my WS over the weekend but there is still quite a bit in the IND file & WS I need to look through and check first.

 

But a lot of the IND witness statement is incredibly difficult or more impossible to counter argue and question in the absence of the WS author stating they won't be there to present their case in person and relying on hearsay evidence.

 

That was the frustrating issue last week,

nobody there to question and cross examine,

just their agent with their "I don't know" answers to what I felt was relevant points and issues over things such as inconsistencies and missing evidence and documents.

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Hmm,

either coincidental timing or IND have seen some recent posts on here and rattled by developments.

 

 

As I've just had the following letter off IND this morning trying some rather desperate or dirty tricks to try and prevent me from submitting my recent evidence and findings some of which only came to light yesterday.

 

 

they are trying to claim at the hearing last Wednesday that I was ordered by the court to serve any evidence (and WS) on them and with the court within 7 days of them reserving there disclosure.

 

Remember as said,

I've received no such order or new directions from the courts,

called them to say so and that I require the new directions and even mentioned it a few times on here.

 

 

And here we are IND trying to claim and prevent me from submitting my own evidence based on an order of the court I've not actually been served with stating such orders or tight restrictions on serving evidence.

 

 

Any thoughts as not to sure on if they can do this when I've not received any such order in writing and the court when I called yesterday was unable to see that any fresh orders or directions were made at the hearing?.

IND1.pdf

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Order dated on the 26th May ?

 

Looks like the " statements " point has touched a nerve...simply draft and serve your witness statement tomorrow..in the absence of any further directions

We could do with some help from you.

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Well hearing was 26th April (Wednesday last week) , yes as stated I got their disclosure (first copy of) , that IND states as 28th.

 

And so they are trying to assert to the court that an order was made for me to

fully inspect,

counter argue,

get advice,

evidence to prove innocence

& compile all that with a WS

and serve to them within 7 days!.

 

Against a case going back 4 years and that's it's took 4 years to present a case and evidence at hearing that they are saying I'm only allowed 1 week to respond to and present to them?!.

 

Well, will be emailing the court in the first instance to point out I have no such order from the court and in the absence of such fresh orders and directions that have not been served by the court to deny this claim and request by IND.

 

And then try to compile my amended defence, evidence, arguments (not helped by IND hearsay evidence) and WS over the next 2 days and both post and email to both parties registered by Monday.

 

Will also call the courts Monday to inform them of this new development to try and block a legitimate defence and evidence in a fair and reasonable time scale.

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Oh (and in the guess I'm going to be told I'm looking too deep into this)

 

 

in checking bank retention records,

seems the timing of IND trying to bring this claim to hearing and their delay in disclosing evidence all of a sudden would not be any less than the maximum period after which banks normally no longer keep such account details for anyway, no less than 6 years yet no more than 10 years!.

 

 

And 10 years and 1 month is the age of the statement I have an true genuine copy of!.

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Not a case of looking too deep...more of a case of small claims court...15 mins...DJ is not really concerned and wants the case sorted and out of his court.

We could do with some help from you.

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Ok, fair enough Andy.

 

 

Starting compiling my own amended defence, WS & evidence for which I intend to take the court copy in by hand on Monday.

 

 

But thought I'd upload their WS (personal details censored of cause) just to see if anyone can see anything in it I might be able to use or point out.

ind ws .pdf

Edited by dx100uk
file size reduced - dx
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14. there is no histoical evidence of the original creditor 'welcome finance' [or was it progressive?] ever taking pictures of the person who took out loans with them.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Well they can't even number their points correctly or in order looking at page 4

(maybe 2 different drafts spliced together?).

 

 

But I don't get what their point is there at all!.

Rather puzzling as there isn't anything in the way of photographic evidence in the disclosure that shows anyone from welcome finance or the claimed applicant like office cctv stills proving the person who took out the loans ID?.

 

 

So no, there is no evidence of any photographic ID or who has supposedly supplied this

photographic ID.

 

Makes very confusing reading a lot of there WS

 

Also before I have to go out,

points 11 & 12 where they mention and acknowledge my defence in March 2013,

mention about the Section 77 & CPR 31.14 requests etc

in the defence in point 16 (page 3) and having received that request in March 2013.

 

 

Yet they only mention or try to make claim that they complied with this request in point 18 page 4 on 21 April 2015, over 2 years after they acknowledged the request.

 

are they admitting they failed to comply the S 77 & CPR 31.14 request as legally obligated to or admitting to having missed out evidence in the 2 years in between in the disclosure and WS?.

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if we've not go them already ..

the exhibits might well be needed to be seen.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

could they be talking about copies of passport photocopied at the time in 2007?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Maybe DX,

as there is a poor photocopy of my passport in the evidence.

 

Though as I've said, that could more likely be due to having supplied such photographic ID at some point after their original 2013 claim and prior to late 2015 to try and prove my innocence.

 

But lets face it,

they have made claim to have asked for this in their WS

(getting very easy to discredit now by looks of it),

yet emphasised I never provided it.

 

But of course they would say that wouldn't they as admit it was sent and they probably then can't use it as agreement application ID against me!.

 

Oh yeah, something else,

if not as much an issue but maybe point worth mentioning.

 

When I called the court Friday

(to again enquire about the lack of fresh court orders or updated directions)

I asked about the application to lift the stay late last year

 

as despite this not being mentioned in the WS or evidence you would think it would be stated as after 4 years since the case was stayed they would almost certainly have under most normal circumstances had such an application rejected.

 

So must have assumably gave a very convincing argument and proof to the court in their application statement eh?.

 

Yet no mention at all on the issue and argument you would think would help their claim against me unless details of the lift application statement might contradict some of their WS or stated dates and evidence claims?.

 

the court confirms the stay lift application was made the exact same date (25th Jan 17) without hearing that they transferred the case from Northampton to Liverpool court.

 

as the local judge in this case has likely not been informed this was a stayed case from 4 years ago, he's likely also not been informed or been privy to this lift application, or seen or have any knowledge of the stay lift application statement.

As nothing in the WS or disclosure to clarify this point.

 

As far as the judge can likely see this is simply a recent claim transferred from Northampton to Liverpool. along with the lift application statement that might be handy to get,

might the statements of case and questionnaires presented to the local judge to see if there is anything deceptive in that to?.

 

Oh, and as for their baseless claim that an order is place to try and now prevent me for submitting my amended WS, evidence & arguments, I could remind the court than in the absence of any actual orders or fresh directions received that standard court hearing procedures allow the submission of a witness statement and disclosure upto no later than 14 days prior to a listed hearing date!. For which is also on record that IND dated their own WS very, very late and even filed it with the court days after the final deadline!.

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By the way,

the court confirmed today I have until at least the end of this week to submit evidence as an order is only getting issued today as the case has now been relisted and NOT last Friday the 5th that IND have sent letters to myself and the court to try and enforce.

 

 

Would think the judge wouldn't take this sort of instruction and letter from IND to enforce an order on the court and defendant that the court confirmed they never made?.

 

 

Could be seen as trying to pervert the cause of justice and interfere with the court process?.

Unless IND care to take this so called order they have to the hearing with them?.

 

another day another thought of inconsistency that more raises questions on the reliability of there witness statement.

 

 

The WS makes claim to rely on hearsay evidence citing CPR 33.2 (1)(B) & section 2 (1)(a) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995. And as so won't be attending in person.

 

 

Is it just me or having noted the WS author claim they only became involved after the claim was issued (which was March 2013) means they 100% would have personal knowledge of the account and it's conduct for a period that includes some evidence and account actions!.

 

 

How much of an abuse is it to try and make claim to rely on heresy evidence in a court hearing to avoid having to appear and be questioned on actions, issues and evidence they would have personal knowledge of?.

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Right,

a somewhat concerning development that has me somewhat worried.

 

 

As per last couple of posts,

letter from IND weeked asserting a court order and tight (unreasonably) conditions I'm to compy with yet failed to so try to deny any submission from me.

 

 

Yet as said no such order has been made, issued or on file with the court as I'd called them multiple time over the issue.

 

 

Then Monday as said the court confirms an order has now been issued that day (Monday 8th) as the case has now been relisted.

 

This new court order was received yesterday (uploaded in post) and strange enough looks to include some of the points in the order as IND claimed in their letter before this order was issued?.

 

 

As can be seen from the upload, the order whilst dated 26th April at the bottom of the page, wasn't actually issued until Monday 8th May.

 

Then today I received another letter from IND pretty much confirming they to have now received the new order to, dated 26th April, drawn 8th May which confirms the claims made in the previous letter weekend from IND and confirms that I am no longer able to serve anything!?.

 

In other words it looks as if IND is saying the court is to retrospectively enforce unreasonably tight conditions in that order, yet an order or directions were never issued at the time, or detailed or on file until the 8th May.

 

Any advice as if no order was made and issued how on earth am I expected to know about and comply?.

 

 

As said called the court multiple time regarding fresh directions and order as Cab alsp said I need them to respond?.

 

 

Looks to me like there might have been a delay in the court issuing the order as whilst the content of the order is dated same date as the hearing, 26th April, it's not dated as being issued 8th May!.

ind.pdf

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Quite clear from the order...they have until the 15th May and you have until 21st May

We could do with some help from you.

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That's kind of how I see it and would argue it Andy. IND's clear interpretation is that I have just 7 days after the date they resent their disclosure and barred from submitting anything after those 7 days on an order of the court clearly before the court issued any such order.

 

Preposterous of IND to try and claim a court order prevents me from submitting and filing any evidence and defence and that such a period to do so expired 3 days before the date the court order was issued and sent out that they claim states this.

 

I see this as intimidating action to try and convince the court and me I can't submit anything based on a clearly pointless argument that has no merit!.

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You need to start ignoring what IND state and say.....they barley know how to issue a court claim....less a lone process one.

 

Ignore as the courts will

We could do with some help from you.

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