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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Dropping off guests to Leonardo hotel Heathrow - received PCN Parking Eye


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Hi All,

 

sorry to trouble you.

 

 

I just don't understand this.

We went to drop off some family guests (who were from overseas) that had been staying with us to Leonardo Hotel Near Heathrow.

 

 

The entrance to the hotel is a via a private drive to the rear.

We helped them with their luggage,

helped them check-in

- at no point did the staff ask us whether we had a car or any charges for waiting.

 

 

The check-in took over 15mins,

we then helped them with their luggage to their rooms and said our good-byes and left the hotel.

 

Received a PCN just a over a week later stating we had stayed 40mins and charge is £100 discounted to £60 if paid within 14 days.

 

I rang the hotel,

the unfriendly staff went on the defensive,

saying there are 19 signs all round the hotel, in the lift etc.

 

How does a hotel expect guests to be dropped off

- just park up and throw the luggage out and wave out the car window

as we speed off in fear of getting a parking charge.

This is really below the belt behaviour.

 

The hotel sent a short abrupt email stating that I had to call parking eye to deal with any issues

- the number they gave me is the payment tel number which only deals with payments.

 

Please could you advise what is the best way to do deal with this.

 

I would normally ignore these type of letters,

but I understand Parking Eye typically takes people to the court.

 

Thank you.

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what is the date of the event and when did you get the demand?

knowing those will help us a little if the procedures havent been followed.

 

Next,

email everyone you can find on their corporate website

and complain as the signage is pifflingly small and unreadable on google streetview,

so unreadable from a vehicle.

 

 

I would be telling them that you will be doing a recharge on the card that paid for the visit

unless they sort out this problem and offer some kind of apology for their staff's rudeness.

 

 

There are no signs at the entrance or any that are visible from the public highway

and also no indication that the road at the back of the hotel is a private road

so no-one would be looking for signage written in tiny fonts.

 

Next,

offer a review on tripadvisor and any other rating website and warn perople that you have been robbed by a condition of business that has not been given prior notice and has been rudely brushed off by the local management.

 

 

make sure that HQ know that you are going to slate them and give them an opportunity to do the right thing first.

 

They can do something about this but wont unless it hurts their pockets

 

After that we will deal with PE if necessary.

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Thank you ericsbrother for your prompt and very helpful posts.

 

I've been out most of the afternoon so couldn't get back to you sooner.

 

I shall send an email to the address you have given and report back - thank you for the contact.

 

 

I did go on the main website to see who I could email,

they had a ;contact us' which I used for the the london heathrow

- think this got routed to the front desk

who just sent the abrupt email saying I should contact Parking Eye.

 

I have already submitted a tripadvisor venting my frustration at this. I did tweet them as well.

 

Here's hoping they can see some common sense and some basic level of decency of how we treat people/guests.

 

For info, the date of the incident was 21.01.16

the times on the PCN are arrival: 19:09 and depart time: 19:52,

total time 43mins.

I received the PCN yesterday 01.02.16

Edited by swift03
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Hi,

 

I emailed the general manager, Diane, she replied back with an attachment of the parking eye signage plan! she also pointed out they have over 20 signs around the hotel, she also said as the owner of the car it is my responsibility to ensure I pay for parking charges. She concluded by saying that I should contact Parking Eye using the telephone number on the back of the PCN. The only number on the PCN is for the payments line only. There is no option to talk to someone.

 

Not quite the helpful advice I was expecting. I would hate to go to her for help, she'd probably turn round and say its all your fault. Let's just say I'm a strong believer in Karma.

 

I cannot remember seeing any signs with the tariff clearly visible, when your going to drop some guests off to a hotel, I wasn't really thinking that I would have to pay to drop people off. I wasn't staying there for dinner or the night - if I was, I would have clearly enquired about parking charges. Also much of the time was taken up by the check-in process.

 

I did find a number for Parking Eye, the advisor basically said, nothing they can do either and I would have to follow the appeal process.

 

I did email the general manger, Diane, again to ask her, I would be very grateful, she has in her power to tell Parking Eye to cancel this ticket. She did not reply back.

 

Hotels operate in the hospitality industry, this hotel ethos is an insult to the word hospitality.

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Is the hotel part of a chain ?

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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You should now appeal to Parking Eye - in writing, don't ever phone - using all the usual criteria but especially signage Was it dark when you arrived because if it was then that strengthens your hand considerably.

 

You could also email the ever helpful manager at the hotel and remind her that the hotel is equally and jointly responsible for the actions of their agents and that the hotel could be on the wrong end of a costly claim if PEye try their luck at a court case. Copy this email into Leonardo Hotels' head office in Berlin. The company behind the Heathrow set up was incorporated only last year and its two directors both give their correspondence addresses at the hotel but no email addresses.

 

You should, in any event, post a truthful account of your experiences, on Trip Advisor to alert others.

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Is the hotel part of a chain ?

 

Yes, I've not heard of them before, but from their website they do have hotels world wide, I think this particular hotel, Leonardo Hotel Heathrow, was formerly Holiday Inn.

It's a nice hotel, let down by shameful staff.

 

Also, I did a review on TripAdvisor (accurate, fair and completely honest based on our experience), it was taken down twice. (apparently they don't allow reviews for external parking companies.)

Edited by swift03
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she didnt like the bad review on Tripadvisor, tough,

dont employ companies that screw your customers for more money than the hotel visit is worth.

 

no need to worry as you can now appeal to PE yourself and then to POPLA.

This will cost PE money and time to show they have a right to make a claim and they wont be able to.

 

Why?

Leonardo Hotels dont own the land to the contract with PE they have is worthless.

Also, get on to Hillingdon Council planning dept and ask them if either Leonardo Hotels

or PE have been granted planning permission for the 19 signs.

 

 

When you speak to the planners you must be clear about what signage you are referring to

as they will undoubtedly have PP for their big red signs.

 

 

The PE ones will be of a more recent date than those and yes, they are subject to a planning app,

even though it is then granted on the nod.

NO PP, then no contract as it is a criminal offence to have the signs there and you cannot enter into a criminal compact.

 

Answer to ell-enn yes they are a German company

 

Also note,

grovelling requests will get you nowhere,

you should have told her that is will cost her employers money

and a lot of bad publicity to continue with this illogical stance.

 

 

Go to the german HQ web page and email the names listed for the various heads of servcies

and tell them that they have a system in place that is doing great damage to their business.

 

 

If you find out about the PP first and there isnt any, tell them that PE are breaking the law and really shouldnt be associating themselves with criminal activity.

 

Post up the signage plan and also the picture of the sign at the desk-

surely she sent you a copy of that having made so much fuss about its presence!

 

The trick to beating these nonsensical demands is to know more than they do about their statement,

for example she says that PE issued a fine-has she offered any evidence of which court handed down this conviction to you?

 

 

Read a big wodge of the threads here and you will get a feel for what is normal

and what the parking co's like to tell you is true when it isnt actually the case.

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They are a big chain but only the one hotel in the UK.

 

Write the review based on a visit to the hotel, you only got as far as checkin, and mention the parking. I've seen parking mentioned in other reviews that were just as unfavourable

The hotel has a Facebook page too!

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Find out where their head office is and contact them.

 

The external parking companies are acting on the instructions of the hotel - so it's still a service supplied by the hotel and therefore open for criticism

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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ericsbrother - re: the tripadvisor review

- I did email her to say my review was based on how her abrupt staff handled the call

and the subsequent email I received from their 'Contact Us' page

- which simply stated to contact Parking Eye.

 

 

Had she intervened and cancelled the ticket,

I would have amended my review to show the hotel and the manager in a favourable light.

 

I've had a reply back from TA, it's semantics around wording, so will try again.

 

Attached is the signage doc she sent me.

This is the only doc she sent me,

she didn't send me the sign at the desk.

 

 

I never went to the desk - the guests went their to check-in,

I waited just by the side of the entrance,

they have some seating area and I was waiting there with their luggage.

 

It was dark (7pm), I didn't park in their actual car park,

but in a lay-by just past the entrance.

I did not see any of their tariff signs.

 

Thanks for all your advice guys and support

- I will definitely fight this all the way and follow your advice.

 

I'll email Leonardo hotel HQ and inform them of this very bad practice

which will only serve to give their hotel a bad reputation along with unhelpful staff behaviour.

(I shudder to think how helpful their concierge service is!)

 

I'll contact Hillingdon Council and find out about the PP re: signs.

parking.doc

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first of all,

the sign at the entrance is not visible on google streetview,

 

 

secondly it refers to other signs that are unreadable from the drivers seat in a car, again streetview supports this.

 

 

Also, as the 1st sign has no terms and relies on the second sign

it is not a contract but an invitation to treat so no contract may be formed automatically,

you have to then consider and accept the terms or choose to ignore them.

Your choice, not theirs.

 

Now have you spoken to Hillingdon Council planning dept about the PP,

This is a very important move on your part as if they dont have PP then they are stuffed.

best to know this before you appeal to PE and subsequently POPLA.

 

Also if no PP then a complaint to the council about thier criminality with acc to the big names in Germany

about this as the hotel are ultimately responsible for the application

and they are the ones who can get done for displaying advertising signs

(which is legally what they are) without it.

 

 

PE's thoughts on this are unimportant and tough if they cant create a contract

because someone else failed to write a letter.

 

Feel free to post your thought on the other travel and hotel review sites

as long as you are expressing an honest opinion there is little that can be done to challenge.

 

 

Again, you may want to wait to see about the planning as it will add some meat to the bones.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys,

 

really sorry I haven't responded,

work life took over in a big way so didn't have time to deal with this.

I didn't even get round to doing an appeal.

 

 

They've kept sending letters,

think the last one I had about a month ago now, saying its letter before court action.

 

 

The letter cites the beavis case.

I've not heard anything since.

 

 

If it does goto court then I'll try and fight it, hope the judge sees common sense.

The google streetview/maps shows when this hotel was a holiday inn than the leonardo hotel it is now.

 

I've got too much workload on at the moment but if it does goto court I'll fight it.

 

ericsbrother, special thanks for your help.

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I spent a considerable amount of effort badgering the management of this hotel company on your behalf and they had agreed to do the necessaries with you directly and it turns out you have done nothing when a simple email to them the same day you first posted here would have killed the matter.

If you come here looking for help you have to help yourself as well and now this will rumble on because you cant be bothered.

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ericsbrother - I am truly grateful for you support and the effort you went to. I am sorry I let you down. Though I did email the management, if you look at post #5, you'll see that the manageress responded quite abruptly with the signage around the hotel. Like you say, she probably didn't like the bad review I left on TripAdvisor.

 

I appreciate that you are taking time out of your day to help others and myself. But high pressure work matters took over, plus overseas travelling.

 

If I did ever meet you, I would definitely buy you a round.

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