Alliance/ Letter of Claim - appealed - Promenade Car Park Perranporth

[2024Parkingissue]

I have received a letter of claim dated 10th January 2024 from Alliance Parking.

I have read through the other posts and I did appeal to Alliance and I followed up with the appeal to The IAS shortly afterwards.

I can see from the posts that you advise not to do this, I was unaware of this group three years ago. Yes I also provided an email address. I have added the files your other posts requested.

This relates to 10th April 2021.

The Demand for payment was December 2023.

I have downloaded the response pack, I can see that you have advised other people to hold off on responding immediately.

Is there advice on what I should put in the response pack?

How is it legal for Alliance Parking to see what your evidence for defence with the Judge will be? 

Many thanks for any guidance on this. 

See details below reference the issue. I have also uploaded the files with details that I have including photos. 

The PCN relates to me parking my motorcycle in the promenade car park in 10th April 2021.

When we arrived it was a busy day with lots of cars parked up (sunny day).

We parked in a triangle space by the toilets, at this stage we did look the sign said Motorcycle parking by toilets. 

PCN stated Parking Ticket not displayed. 

Prima Facie 

The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 13/05/2021 21:28:36.

The Operator Reported That...
The appellant was the driver.
The appellant was the keeper.
The ticket was issued on 16/04/2021.
The charge is based in Contract.

The Operator Made The Following Comments...
As detailed on the clear and prominent signage (the contract), drivers agree to pay the sum of £100 if a valid ticket is not displayed for inspection.

The tariff board advises users that motorcycles parked in the dedicated 'Motorcycle' parking area may do so free of charge; and that the tariff is payable when parked in all other areas.

As demonstrated by the images taken by the issuing officer, the appellants' motorcycle was not parked in the dedicated 'Motorcycle' parking area; therefore, payment for parking was required.

The appellants' statement that a motorcycle does not have a 'dashboard' is noted; however, there is no reason why they could not have paid for parking and at least attempted to display the ticket somewhere visible on their motorcycle.

Furthermore, there is a helpline displayed on the payment terminal; which the appellant could have used to ask for advice.

Side note: The appellant does not dispute that they did not pay for parking.

Regarding signage, the location of the payment terminal, and the motorcycle parking area; please note that there is another motorcycle parked next to the appellants' bike.

We have attached an image of the neighbouring bike. If one refers to the background of this image, the pedestal of the payment terminal and motorcycle parking area can be clearly seen.

Given that the appellant parked next to this bike, it is clear that all the appellant had to do was turn their head and the motorcycle area and payment terminal could be observed; they could have also simply strolled around the car park to look for the dedicated motorcycle area.

It is unclear why the appellant has submitted their image 'Signage and Motorcycle parking - lack of', as it is not taken from where their vehicle was parked; therefore, offers nothing to support this appeal.

In light of the above and attached, we trust that this appeal will be dismissed as it has no merit.

Thank you.

 

 

NTK+Appeal+Photos .pdf

[dx100uk]

all uploads now redacted (were totally unreacted) and placed in one pdf in post 1.

thread title updated

you state you have a letter of claim from Alliance?

usually it comes from their pet solicitor...

can you scan the 1st page up please after reading upload CAREFULLY.

you do not use their pack at all.

you reply with a snotty letter.

plenty of examples here.

you also mention in your appeal photos you took?

we need those too.

next time DO NOT EVER APPEAL...

dx

 

 

[FTMDave]

You need to reply with a snotty letter showing Alliance Parking you have sussed their crooked appeals procedure and you will be big trouble for them if they do do court.

You shouldn't use their stupid response pack - the whole point is to show them you have no respect for their ridiculous procedures.

Your uploads were totally unredacted and dx100uk and I have just spent time sorting them all out.

It's hard to read all the small print of the appeals procedure, but to get to the point, did you out the driver?  From a skim read it seems you didn't.

[dx100uk]

i notice this is an operator ticket so the NTK was sent before 29 days...gameover!

did you actually get a windscreen ticket? where is it??

[dx100uk]

here are @FTMDave

appeal clearer.

appeal.pdf

[2024Parkingissue]

Thank you for redacting its been a long day.

I do not recall admitting to being the driver.

Please see the Letter of Claim dated 8th Jan 24.

attached photos of entrance to car park demonstrating the lack of signage.

The Pay Here sign was faded. 

 

 

Redacted Letter of claim.pdf Car park entrance.pdf

[dx100uk]

thats ok.

yep snotty letter time.

did you get a windscreen ticket on your bike?

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Great work with the photos.

Alliance haven't a hope.

[2024Parkingissue]

you asked about a ticket,

I was riding a motorcycle free parking which the signage said if you parked by the toilets (there was a triangle shaped area) by the toilets which we used.

I did not buy a ticket,

I parked in what I considered at the time was a safe place by the toilet railing.

The operators photographs of our motorcycles attached show that you could not park a car in the space. 

The sign also says that ticket must be displayed on the dashboard.

I quoted this in the appeal - as there is no dashboard to display a ticket. they stated that I should have fixed a ticket elsewhere on the motorcycle even though that would not have been accepted. 

operator photo.pdf

[dx100uk]

an operator wandering around issuing speculative invoices MUST attach a yellow Parking Charge Notice to your windscreen in a plastic bag.

so this did not happen? so this seems like a vanishing windscreen ticket.

that means that the NTK was sent TOO soon. before 29 days have elapsed GAMEOVER!!

dx

 

[2024Parkingissue]

how should I proceed with that please, I have used the search bar and cannot find the response letters you suggested I use. 

Thank you for your assistance it is much appreciated. 

In the operators photos, you can see his shadow as he took photo's of the area and the bikes. Should I reply asking why they did not stick the yellow ticket on my windscreen when the ticket was missing? 

 

[FTMDave]

Their whole case would be laughed out of court - pathetic signage at the entrance and then allowed to fade across the car park, motorbikes don't have to be paid for but they do have to be paid for, other motorbikes allowed to park in the wrong place to entrap you, attendant who encourages this mess rather than mitigating, etc., etc., etc.

It's been a long day at this end too but in the morn we will help with a snotty letter.

 

[lookinforinfo]

DX I  have scoured Schedule 4 on several occasions looking for the section dealing with the issue of windscreen tickets. As yet I have not found anything stating that the warden must issue a PCN on the spot when a breach is incurred.

Parking Issue-Alliance seems to think you were the driver. Are you sure that in your appeal you did not admit that you were the driver by mistake? for instance might you have said "I parked my bike...."  rather than "the rider parked the bike    " . 

Were there two of you on the one bike or did you arrive on separate bikes. Obviously if you were a solo rider there would be no doubt who the rider was.

[FTMDave]

11 hours ago, lookinforinfo said:

Parking Issue-Alliance seems to think you were the driver. Are you sure that in your appeal you did not admit that you were the driver by mistake? for instance might you have said "I parked my bike...."  rather than "the rider parked the bike    " .

I noticed this too. 

Alternatively the OP might have clicked on some button with "appeal as the driver" while making the appeal?

Snotty letter is drafted below but I really am half asleep and it shouldn't be sent before going through the paperwork tomorrow in the cold light of day.

 

Dear Kev,

Re: PCN no.XXXXX

cheers for your Letter of Claim.  I rolled around on the floor in mirth at the idea you actually thought I'd take such tripe seriously and cough up!

I'm well aware of the sordid little scam you have going on at the Promenade car park in Perranporth to entrap motor cyclists.

I see you couldn't resist adding £70 Unicorn Food Tax on top: judges don't like these made-up charges, do they?

You can either stop this madness now or else get a hell of a thrashing in court, where I will be sure to request an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.1(1)(b) which I will use to go back to Cornwall at your expense and have a nice weekend break to celebrate your hammering.

I look forward to your deafening silence.

Yours, XXXXX

Edited January 16 by FTMDave
Tweaking

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, lookinforinfo said:

DX I  have scoured Schedule 4 on several occasions looking for the section dealing with the issue of windscreen tickets. As yet I have not found anything stating that the warden must issue a PCN on the spot when a breach is incurred.

urm.. i seem to remember something about UKPC being done over by the courts for vanishing windscreen tickets? and not abiding by their BPA/IAC NTK sending timings ?

something like this term of MNPR could only be used for CCTV capture not by on site wardens. they must at the time issue a physical ticket . 

else whats the point of the 14 days and 29-56 days NTK sending limits in our sticky??

just musing

1 hour ago, 2024Parkingissue said:

In the operators photos, you can see his shadow as he took photo's of the area and the bikes. Should I reply asking why they did not stick the yellow ticket on my windscreen when the ticket was missing? 

 

no!

[FTMDave]

Snotty letter slightly tweaked and ready to go.

Invest in a 2nd class stamp and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

[Homer67]

Amazing work all 

[2024Parkingissue]

Thank you for your advice and edits. I will be on here later to download the letter template. 

[Nicky Boy]

On 16/01/2024 at 00:52, dx100uk said:

something like this term of MNPR could only be used for CCTV capture not by on site wardens. they must at the time issue a physical ticket . 

else whats the point of the 14 days and 29-56 days NTK sending limits in our sticky??

DX, I trawled through scehdule 4 a short while ago to answer a question by Dave...

It seems that the PPC's have the choice of issuing either a NTD at the time, meaning they have to respect the 29-56 day rule for a follow up NTK... Or just issue a NTK later, meaning they must follow the 14 day rule.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

 

6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—

(a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or

(b)has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.

(2)If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper must be given in accordance with paragraph 8.

[FTMDave]

Yes, @BazzaS set me right some time back by pointing out that POFA only gives two possibilities, the NTD and then 29-56 days or no NTD so 14 days.