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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Funeral disaster


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Shelley. Can I offer some words that I genuinely hope will draw this to a close for you. I speak as someone who has had two young family members murdered but also as someone who used to work in the industry many years ago.

 

I am confident that the very vast majority of funeral directors do actually do a great job, if that is the right choice of words. It is a money making business, yes. But I never went into it for the money. It is a genuinely caring profession at peoples most vulnerable and traumatic times. Needless to say, things can and sometimes do go wrong.

 

When you go say your final goodbyes, it is often a devastating experience as the finality of it hits hard. The loved one will never look as you hoped, expected or indeed would want. You are used so seeing them sleeping, but this is different. No movement, no warmth. Post mortem lividity (redness) is very common. It will give the person a different look. The muscles are completely relaxed unlike sleeping, so they will have a kind of face lift appearance due to gravity. They will be colder than you thought, often little above freezing. This is because unlike what we may want to imagine, deceased persons need to be kept very cool indeed. Even after 'treatment' or embalming.

 

I do not know the actual circumstances of course and have no reason to doubt what you are saying. It is a horrible time and experience for you. But I would ask you to consider this. As horrible as that day was for you and as awful a memory as it is, can you find a way to conjure up right now a smiling image of him? An image of him in better days, on a great day when you both were full of youth and magic? Birds singing, sun shining. Just a perfect moment. Can you do that? Can you now hear him saying something? What would he tell you to do about this? I am sure he would tell you it is OK and that he would not want you upset or distressed like this. He would put a loving hand on your shoulder, smile and say 'don't let it upset you'. Am I right?

 

This is the most difficult thing to say, but can you find a way to remember him in better days. He has gone, yes. But can you let that one moment pass and grab hold of all the wonderful memories again. The laughter, the fun, the good times? I am absolutely sure that is what he would want you to do.

 

I genuinely hope you take this as a friend offering a shoulder and heartfelt best wishes. What happened is not nice, but it is one moment in a million others that were nice. Don't let that one moment hold you back any longer. Move forward with great memories knowing a wonderful man was there and would not want you to be upset any longer.

 

Kindest wishes and thoughts.

 

 

RM This to me, has to be one of the most sincerest & deeply thought out posts I've read on CAG.

 

Indeed, it does for me, bring hope that Shelley will read your words & find the happy memories she shared with her beloved husband. That they will bring her a happiness amongst the sadness she's been/going through.

 

I can only say thank you.

 

 

 

I also agree with MrP that the FD token gesture is not worthy & an insult.

 

This was a traumatic time enough for Shelley loosing her husband & for the FD to compound that by their short comings (as per OP post), to the point Shelley now has to live with what she saw.

 

So to my mind, a full refund & 2 knee grovelling apology is no less than she deserves.

 

Shelley I do hope you find peace & a way to move on from this awful traumatic experience.

 

Best wishes indeed! x

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every single minute of it!!

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  • 3 months later...
Shelley. Can I offer some words that I genuinely hope will draw this to a close for you. I speak as someone who has had two young family members murdered but also as someone who used to work in the industry many years ago. I am so sorry for your loss in such a terrible way. I can't begin to imagine how hard that was to cope with. Working in the industry must have felt quite weird?

 

I am confident that the very vast majority of funeral directors do actually do a great job, if that is the right choice of words. It is a money making business, yes. But I never went into it for the money. It is a genuinely caring profession at peoples most vulnerable and traumatic times. Needless to say, things can and sometimes do go wrong. Personally, I have mixed emotions on the 'business' now but i'm sure there are many who are very caring, of which I have no doubt. This hasn't been a one off incident for one 'body', these were systematic errors which have been repeated or closely matched by other 'bodies' which is why the FAS have got involved for many families.

 

When you go say your final goodbyes, it is often a devastating experience as the finality of it hits hard. The loved one will never look as you hoped, expected or indeed would want. You are used so seeing them sleeping, but this is different. No movement, no warmth. Post mortem lividity (redness) is very common. It will give the person a different look. The muscles are completely relaxed unlike sleeping, so they will have a kind of face lift appearance due to gravity. They will be colder than you thought, often little above freezing. This is because unlike what we may want to imagine, deceased persons need to be kept very cool indeed. Even after 'treatment' or embalming. Had this been my first death experience I could possibly accept what you are saying. You have an image of how you think your loved one should look but are completely devasted because they do not meet your expectations. However, this wasn't my first experience and actually, even with time allowances due to the BH I would not want anyone to have this lasting image of their loved one due to the shoddy services of what use to be known in my family as a good old professional organisation. They have admitted their failings......

 

I do not know the actual circumstances of course and have no reason to doubt what you are saying. It is a horrible time and experience for you. But I would ask you to consider this. As horrible as that day was for you and as awful a memory as it is, can you find a way to conjure up right now a smiling image of him? An image of him in better days, on a great day when you both were full of youth and magic? Birds singing, sun shining. Just a perfect moment. Can you do that? Can you now hear him saying something? What would he tell you to do about this? I am sure he would tell you it is OK and that he would not want you upset or distressed like this. He would put a loving hand on your shoulder, smile and say 'don't let it upset you'. Am I right? NO......I'm afraid not! My husband was a stickler for attention to detail and whenever he purchased anything, it had to be right. He would kinow I have the strength to resolve this matter and be able to move on with my life, once justice has been resolved.

This is the most difficult thing to say, but can you find a way to remember him in better days. He has gone, yes. But can you let that one moment pass and grab hold of all the wonderful memories again. The laughter, the fun, the good times? I am absolutely sure that is what he would want you to do. Due to the vast array of 'sad stuff' I have had to deal with for both losses I have, with the wonderful help of family and friends been able to smile again, to carry his wonderful smile on a new phone case cover for easy access to remind me of better times.

 

I genuinely hope you take this as a friend offering a shoulder and heartfelt best wishes. What happened is not nice, but it is one moment in a million others that were nice. Don't let that one moment hold you back any longer. Move forward with great memories knowing a wonderful man was there and would not want you to be upset any longer.

 

Kindest wishes and thoughts.

Roaring mouse, I thank you for your kind words and supporting message and I know you mean well.

Please don't take this the wrong way but this was a life changing sum of money in a sensitive transaction which has had devastating consequences attached.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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Mr P & Rainbow Tears, thank you for your messages. I am truly grateful that someone recognises the hurt and anxiety this has caused.

 

I am in talks with Consiliation service so the matter is still not yet resolved.

 

They talk of winning as if it were a day-to-day transaction but I swiftly explained that there are to be no winners in this matter but a settlement which, in months to come I would feel able to sit back and say "I managed justice and I can now move on", with a headstone in place and the dreadful images fading from my memory.

 

Thay talk about a confidentiality clause which I rebuffed immediately. The whole experience has been dreadful and I would not want anyone else to go through this. I struggled because I had no idea what to do, where to go and came here.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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Well, the mediator has given me the F.D full and final offer and I sense a feeling of 'the old pals act' between the consilliator and the F.D. Something the consilliator said to me on a previous telephone call didn't sit right and hey presto, the final offer matches!

 

Has anyone been through a consilliator situation and been happy with the results?

 

I won't be taking their offer. It's an insult and certainly no where near my expectations or those which some members have suggested.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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I am sorry this is still no nearer to concluding for you Shelley.

 

 

I am struggling to understand why the FD is continuing to refuse to resolve this properly for you.

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To try and answer some of your other questions about you late husband's appearance.

 

When you see someone post-mortem they are very differet to whne they weer laive, as you say a reddening or red blotches on the skin are very common. the embalming process does not prevent decay, nor does the cold storage, they slow it down considerably but people will be very different.

 

FD's emply people to wash and dress the deceased and they apply make up to hide some of the blemishes and the incisions made during a post mortem examination but again this is still evident as the skin changes. The body often expands due to a build up of gases and that can lead to the coffin looking too small when it has properly measured in the first instance.

 

A had a close relative who was a funeral director an sometimes things do go wrong and it is the only event where nothing can ever put things right. He worked for the largest funeral service in the country and what they offer does unfortunately vary from branch to branch. As you have seen, there are large fees that they have no control over so when compensation is calculated this has to be borne in mind.

 

I arranged a funeral recently and the vicar was rubbish so when I mentioned it to the FD they said that they would withhold his fee. Now, the vicar may not like that but funeral services are money they keep all for themselves so they have to think before they complain too much.

 

Be clear what you want as compensation but be aware there are limits to what you can expect without paying out for a court battle.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.
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  • 4 weeks later...

I accept all those things mentioned, I have seen several relatives with various FD's but this is very different and the systematic errors have been accepted by this one.

The conciliation/arbitration service do not pay out damages for trauma caused by these events, only to refund a portion of services not received satisfactorily.

Considering how much was paid and the trauma caused I will be better suited going to court and claiming damages over and above the refund of failed services.

But if I don't follow through with the arbitration service will the courts take a dim view of this?

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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yes as it s an ADR and you are expected to use it where one exists.

Also compensation is just that, you get paid a sum of money that represents your loss and puts you bvack in a [position where you started. Some claims also have an elemt for pain and suffering but you have to quantify that and that will be very difficult and the circumstances of this may well count against you as people's grief and thus sensitivites will be considered as being the norm.

My advice is to accept the apology and whatever the arbitration service awards as you have more than enough to worry about and try and move on. If a court decided you are right they may well set a level of damages at less than you have been offered and then you will end up with their costs to pay as well. It is just how things work.

I sued my local council a couple of years back and the amount awarded was 1p plus an apology which meant I would have picked up the bill for both sides (mine being nothing) but the council refused to apologise so the apology was valued at £500 by the court but that was based on the Vento scale.

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I accept all those things mentioned, I have seen several relatives with various FD's but this is very different and the systematic errors have been accepted by this one.

The conciliation/arbitration service do not pay out damages for trauma caused by these events, only to refund a portion of services not received satisfactorily.

Considering how much was paid and the trauma caused I will be better suited going to court and claiming damages over and above the refund of failed services.

But if I don't follow through with the arbitration service will the courts take a dim view of this?

 

Is it mediation or arbitration?. Or another form of "alternative dispute resolution" (ADR) ; there are many, of which arbitration and mediation are the most common.

 

Mediation doesn't have to come to a conclusion accepted by both parties, it can be "no resolution reached", even with the best intent on both sides. Mediation can offer flexibility though : it isn't limited to purely monetary aproaches (so, an apology might form part of an agreed resolution).

 

Arbitration reaches a conclusion, and although one party can use the courts to appeal that decision, the grounds on which one can do so are limited.

 

(So, mediation is "non-determinative" while arbitration is a "determinative" type of ADR).

 

If ADR is being looked at as part of bringing a claim : there is no obligation to undertake ADR, only to consider it. However, some contracts impose arbitration as the alternative to a court claim, and the circumstances in which the courts will overrule this are limited.

 

If a party unreasonably refuses to engage in ADR, the court can consider this when deciding on costs in any subsequent case.

ADR can be declined and it be reasonable to do so (for example if the costs of the ADR would be disproportionate to the value of the case, or it was obvious that the 2 parties were so firmly entrenched in their positions that mediation was pointless).

 

Any attempt at ADR must be in good faith, so a party that agreed ADR merely "to appear to be doing the right thing", and it was clear they never intended to engage in the process could be treated as if they had unreasonably declined ADR.

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Is it mediation or arbitration?. Or another form of "alternative dispute resolution" (ADR) ; there are many, of which arbitration and mediation are the most common.

 

Mediation doesn't have to come to a conclusion accepted by both parties, it can be "no resolution reached", even with the best intent on both sides. Mediation can offer flexibility though : it isn't limited to purely monetary aproaches (so, an apology might form part of an agreed resolution).

 

Arbitration reaches a conclusion, and although one party can use the courts to appeal that decision, the grounds on which one can do so are limited.

 

(So, mediation is "non-determinative" while arbitration is a "determinative" type of ADR).

 

If ADR is being looked at as part of bringing a claim : there is no obligation to undertake ADR, only to consider it. However, some contracts impose arbitration as the alternative to a court claim, and the circumstances in which the courts will overrule this are limited.

 

If a party unreasonably refuses to engage in ADR, the court can consider this when deciding on costs in any subsequent case.

ADR can be declined and it be reasonable to do so (for example if the costs of the ADR would be disproportionate to the value of the case, or it was obvious that the 2 parties were so firmly entrenched in their positions that mediation was pointless).

 

Any attempt at ADR must be in good faith, so a party that agreed ADR merely "to appear to be doing the right thing", and it was clear they never intended to engage in the process could be treated as if they had unreasonably declined ADR.

 

I was directed by the FD'S to the Funeral Arbitration Service (FAS) which I did, thinking they were like the ombudsman in a financial matter.

 

However, I wasn't given the full facts and have only recently been told they will not consider damages. Apparently, they take you through the conciliation process first and stress that whatever is discussed can't be used in any other 'legal' process if a settlement can't be reached. If conciliation fails he 'pings' it over to the Arbitrator for them to deal with who makes their decision purely on the documents in the case.

 

IF, I disagree on a point of law then, and only then can I apply to the High Court to consider an appeal. I went into this process willingly and hoping that this would be resolved. I donot think the conciliator is taking this matter seriously enough. However, this isn't just about grieving the loss of a loved one when they played the wrong music at the service!!! This is far more serious and this is happening far too often to so many people.

 

I have to take this to court myself in order to be heard by a judge who will take into consideration the damage this company has done, above and beyond the 'normal grieving' process.

 

I am not a greedy person nor am I unreasonable, this is about justice for malpractice and failed services.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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I was directed by the FD'S to the Funeral Arbitration Service (FAS) which I did, thinking they were like the ombudsman in a financial matter. However, I wasn't given the full facts and have only recently been told they will not consider damages. Apparently, they take you through the conciliation process first and stress that whatever is discussed can't be used in any other 'legal' process if a settlement can't be reached. If conciliation fails he 'pings' it over to the Arbitrator for them to deal with who makes their decision purely on the documents in the case. IF, I disagree on a point of law then, and only then can I apply to the High Court to consider an appeal. I went into this process willingly and hoping that this would be resolved. I donot think the conciliator is taking this matter seriously enough. However, this isn't just about grieving the loss of a loved one when they played the wrong music at the service!!! This is far more serious and this is happening far too often to so many people.

I have to take this to court myself in order to be heard by a judge who will take into consideration the damage this company has done, above and beyond the 'normal grieving' process.

I am not a greedy person nor am I unreasonable, this is about justice for malpractice and failed services.

 

http://www.nafd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Funeral-Arbitration-Scheme-leaflet-revision-No-3-Nov-2012.pdf seems to suggest that if the first 2 stages of a complaint don't yield an agreed solution that the complainant can choose between arbitration and court.

 

Do you have to go to arbitration (if you feel it is more limited in its scope for damages)?

Or can you make it plain that if stages 1 and 2 fail that you want to go to court rather than arbitration? : does your contract MANDATE arbitration?

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Point 1 (1)(2)

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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I want to claim for damages as a result of the trauma caused by viewing my husband.

They (F.D) damaged my husband's body by their negligence and lack of care and my photographs prove this, and the (F.D) correspondence explains how it happened!

This was not a usual viewing of a loved one.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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I want to claim for damages as a result of the trauma caused by viewing my husband.

They (F.D) damaged my husband's body by their negligence and lack of care and my photographs prove this, and the (F.D) correspondence explains how it happened!

This was not a usual viewing of a loved one.

 

How much do you think you will be claiming?

 

1.2 The service does not apply to claims for compensation exceeding £10,000, or to claims concerning physical injury, illness or nervous shock or their consequences.

 

 

Which is why I was asking

You want compensation in excess of £10k??

Or are claiming for "nervous shock"??

 

If not for more than £10k, why does 1.2 apply?

"Nervous shock"?

 

Have you had a diagnosis made of a condition that will allow you to claim "nervous shock"?

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/personal-injury/negligence-and-nervous-shock/

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How much do you think you will be claiming?

 

 

 

 

Which is why I was asking

 

 

If not for more than £10k, why does 1.2 apply?

"Nervous shock"?

 

Have you had a diagnosis made of a condition that will allow you to claim "nervous shock"?

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/personal-injury/negligence-and-nervous-shock/

I suspect it will be less than £10k and no I haven't been diagnosed with nervous shock but it has traumatised me and my counsellor has said it is delaying my healing process and not allowing me to grieve properly..

I'm not paying a solicitor £200 per hour to deal with it, nor am I paying for barristers/ court counsel to get involved. I just want to know if I take it to court will the judge look at the damages part of the claim as well as the rest of it? Will the judge take a dim view of me not using the Arbitration service when I explain the trauma it has caused?

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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I suspect it will be less than £10k and no I haven't been diagnosed with nervous shock but it has traumatised me and my counsellor has said it is delaying my healing process and not allowing me to grieve properly..

I'm not paying a solicitor £200 per hour to deal with it, nor am I paying for barristers/ court counsel to get involved. I just want to know if I take it to court will the judge look at the damages part of the claim as well as the rest of it? Will the judge take a dim view of me not using the Arbitration service when I explain the trauma it has caused?

 

Damages for what though?. As the link I posted highlights : you can't claim for grief.

 

I'm not meaning to make light of how awful things were / are, nor would I wish that on anyone.

 

It just sets out the current state of the law, as is.

What I'm not sure on is at what point not being able to grieve properly and having delayed healing becomes severe enough to become actionable for damages, unless medically diagnosed.

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Criminal injuries compensation for a broken nose is aroind £1000. Bear in mind that this level of compensation requires a criminal act plus corrective surgery. As awful as the experience you had was it isnt really something you should be tearing yourself apart over when the end result will be just more suffering and possibly a considerable financial loss as well.

 

I doubt if a doctor will diagnore PTSD as a result of seeing your husbands body as the grief of bereavement will have to be taken into account. If you could find a doctor that agrees with you the other side's lawyers will find 100 who say that this level grief is normal after bereavement and no separate trauma has been diagnosed.

 

Please, accept the arbitration as yes, a judge can and will make a decision about your failure to use the offered service and that will always be to your detriment.

 

If the arbitrator gives you a positive outcome regarding your complaint but you do not agree to the compensation then you would be in a better position to make a claim but again, if the judge decides the level set by arbitration was right them you pay all of the other sides costs and that will probably be a lot more than you could ever hope to receive.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.
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Please, accept the arbitration as yes, a judge can and will make a decision about your failure to use the offered service and that will always be to your detriment.

If the arbitrator gives you a positive outcome regarding your complaint but you do not agree to the compensation then you would be in a better position to make a claim

 

Is the OP's ability to initiate a claim not severely limited once arbitration is initiated?.

 

I thought the ability to challenge an arbitral award was limited to points of law?

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Please, accept the arbitration as yes, a judge can and will make a decision about your failure to use the offered service and that will always be to your detriment.

 

Can the OP not say "my responsibility was to consider ADR.

Not only did I consider it, I undertook mediation.

I have no obligation to accept arbitration once mediation failed, in fact the NAFD scheme has 3 stages

1) Local resolution

2) Mediation, but the 3rd stage can be either arbitration or a court claim".

 

I suspect it would fall to the "judicial lottery" and the individual judge's interpretation!

 

Is the OP's ability to initiate a claim not severely limited once arbitration is initiated?.

 

I thought the ability to challenge an arbitral award was limited to points of law?

 

Clarification : for a s.69 challenge once the award has been made. I'm not including the other grounds such as disputing jurisdiction (earlier) or claiming serious procedural impropriety.

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I will go and see my GP for their opinion and show them the evidence I am dealing with. I have also spoken to a solicitor who I may decide to discuss the matter with.

I have to live with this memory, and the decision I make so I can move forward.

This is not just grief I am dealing with, this is systematic failings of an organization who portray 100 years of so called first class service.

Would this be acceptable to you?

You make it sound so easy. Take the money and move on!!!

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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  • 1 month later...

So, I have undertaken many week of mediation at the start of which I expressed that I would not agree to any confidentiality clause at the point of settlement, which the mediator reminded me that during this process I was strictly to abide by the confidentiality, which I have. Then in the next breath they advised a seek legal advice on whether to accept their offer or 'ping' it across to arbitration, as they put it. So on the one hand I can discuss it with a solicitor and my family but yet I am not allowed to breach to confidentiality clause? Well, I've listened and debated this long enough and was yesterday prepared to accept their increased offer on the understanding that their was to be no confidentiality clause with the settlement terms.

Blow me down with a feather, they have pulled the plug of all of it saying I have refused to abide by the rules and I now have to discuss the matter directly back with the FD!!!

 

I have previously taken banks to court for settlements and refused their confidentiality clauses and it didn't bother them - this obviously explains why you'll never find grievances on google about your local Funeral Directors - they keep it under wraps hidden in their T&C's of settlements.......

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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The FD have written to me today which states as follows;

 

"Following our recent discussions with xxxx xxxx, mediator, we understand that you have decided to leave the conciliation process.

Please may I confirm, as discussed previously, that our final offer is, and remains to be £xxxx conditional to completion through the NAFD conciliation process that you yourself chose to enter.

Please do not hesitate to contact me on xxxxxxxxxx; however if we do not hear from you within 28 days from the date of this letter we will shall consider the matter closed."

 

It was my understanding that the complaints procedure with the FD was exhausted and that the NAFD was the next course of action in the process - not too dissimilar to that of the F.O.S when having a complaint with your bank? So what difference do they think this will make to the situation?

 

I am being forced to accept an offer with the conditions of the confidentiality clause or get nothing!

 

I can't share the distressing photo's of this matter but believe me when I say the Funeral business is ripping people off by thousands of pounds and hiding complaints under the confidentiality clause, which is why when you google the topic there is very little to expose!

 

How about I accept the offer and whistle blow later down the line?

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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you do not breach a confidentiality clause by speaking to a solicitor or your family, why would you believe that? It basically means that any agreement is betwen you and the FD and not public information so you cant go to the local papers and say what a shower they are and they only refunded £xxx afterwards You can get any documents read by your solicitor to ensure you arent being walked all over before you sign them

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