European citizen resident in UK 30 years denied benefits

[Spring blues]

Hi,

 

I've just been to the JC to sign on as usual,

asked for a letter confirming receipt off JSA

and was told I'm no longer in receipt as it has "just gone over 6 months".

 

 

Apparently you can only claim for 6 months as a EU citizen

but when I started my claim I was told that didn't apply in this case as it was for new migrants.

 

 

I did the HRT interview showed proof of residence for the last three months as required

but tenancy agreement is 7 years old and date of first arrival in UK is 1984!

 

I had my old passport issued in London in 2003, worked in the City since 97,

only claimed for a year after the credit crunch,

then worked 4 years non stop.

Have paid taxes and worked in UK all my life,

how can they do this?

 

Have applied for over 100 jobs and had interviews,

even an upcoming one so not exact intending to live off the system.

In fact they agreed to pay for my travel to this interview so they know about it.

 

When I argued they booked me an interview at the JC in 10 days' time.

 

How can they do this just because I didn't apply for a British passport?

It costs £950 and all these years EU citizens had much the same rights.

I understand the idea of. Ot wanting people to come here to live off the state

but I came here in the 80s and paid my taxes, etc.

hardly ever claimed anything other than during the crunch.

 

The CABs are all short staffed and wouldn't see me, any help and advice most welcome!

 

Many thanks

[Nystagmite]

Were you on income based or contributions based JSA? If it's the latter, you're only entitled for 6 months.

[Spring blues]

Income based as I was invoicing as a limited company in my last job, but they know all that.

 

They never even send a letter or anything. Got a letter end of Jan I think saying something about having more money than law says I need to live on which I couldn't understand so I rang the processing office that sent it, they said it has been sent with the wrong code and there was nothing to worry about, they checked on the computer.

 

Went to sign on two weeks ago and there was no mention of anything, nor have I received anything in writing.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Spring blues

[estellyn]

You should challenge (mandatory reconsideration) the decision on the basis that you have permanent residence status due to having resided in the UK as a 'qualified person' for at least 5 years. You will be asked to prove your working history and any periods you supported yourself independently.

 

After you have successfully challenged the decision, you may find it worthwhile applying to the home office for a permanent residence card which will make future claims easier.

[Spring blues]

Many thanks for your help, that's most helpful!

 

I didn't even know about residence cards, it was never an issue if you were from the EU.

[san_d]

So you're an ex-City worker, what are you doing at the Jobcentre? You sound like you have £k's sitting in your ltd. Don't you City boys usually regard the unemployed as peasants who need neutering?

[antone]

So you're an ex-City worker, what are you doing at the Jobcentre? You sound like you have £k's sitting in your ltd. Don't you City boys usually regard the unemployed as peasants who need neutering?

 

Em...is there some particular reason you felt the need to make this post? We're here to help people, not to insult them because of their past occupations.

[estellyn]

Yes completely unnecessary, we don't attack people because of their jobs, whatever it was. Everyone is entitled to advice......well I might draw the line at Ian Duncan Smith!

 

Also in this case, the way I read it you're also probably incorrect - they are talking about working in London the city, for all you know they could be tube driver.

[san_d]

Yes completely unnecessary, we don't attack people because of their jobs, whatever it was. Everyone is entitled to advice......well I might draw the line at Ian Duncan Smith!

 

Also in this case, the way I read it you're also probably incorrect - they are talking about working in London the city, for all you know they could be tube driver.

Read the OP well. He said he "was invoicing as a limited company". He employed himself through his ltd, so me might have paid himself peanuts and have left all the money sitting in his ltd.

 

This is a common trick in the contractors' world. The DWP are daft enough that they don't investigate outside the realm of personal income.

 

Ok to help people, but those who genuinely need it, not City contractors who make millions.

[estellyn]

Read the OP well. He said he "was invoicing as a limited company". He employed himself through his ltd, so me might have paid himself peanuts and have left all the money sitting in his ltd.

 

This is a common trick in the contractors' world. The DWP are daft enough that they don't investigate outside the realm of personal income.

 

Ok to help people, but those who genuinely need it, not City contractors who make millions.

 

You know, I don't really care. I don't make a judgement on whether someone is worthy of my help before I assist them - that's too much like Tory thinking for my liking.

 

You answer what you want to, if you don't want to help, just keep quiet.

[reallymadwoman]

You know, I don't really care. I don't make a judgement on whether someone is worthy of my help before I assist them - that's too much like Tory thinking for my liking.

 

You answer what you want to, if you don't want to help, just keep quiet.

 

Hear, hear.

Tried to give some rep but I have to spread it around first.

[antone]

Read the OP well. He said he "was invoicing as a limited company". He employed himself through his ltd, so me might have paid himself peanuts and have left all the money sitting in his ltd.

 

This is a common trick in the contractors' world. The DWP are daft enough that they don't investigate outside the realm of personal income.

 

Ok to help people, but those who genuinely need it, not City contractors who make millions.

 

I know, right? This forum is overwhelmed by millionaires seeking advice on how best to screw the government out of £72.40 or so per week.

 

Seriously, though, if you thought I was inviting a debate on this topic, you misread my post. Help or say nothing - civility is not optional here.

[**Margaret**]

:The Line:

 

'...... well I might draw the line at Ian Duncan Smith!'

 

My line is definitely drawn to exclude Ian Duncan Smith et al .

 

Margaret.

[Spring blues]

I shall ignore all those irrelevant comments posted by people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about and give an update for the sake of the CAG community, with my thanks to those who helped.

 

At the time I posted on here I wasn't in possession of any written documents stating the reason why my claim had stopped, so I couldn't apply for mandatory reconsideration. I was made to attend a 'genuine prospect of work' interview at the Jobcentre. I went armed with piles of paperwork including emails from recruiters, proof of interviews, etc. They didn't want to look at anything and it was just whatever came up on their computer screens, starting with whether I had a job offer. I'd have thought it I had one I'd have notified them and would not be claiming for much longer. Then if I had done a course. Hardly the same as a job offer....

 

Then came a question as to whether I had taken any steps to become self-employed, started a business or registered a company. I replied yes to that one, then came the date of registration. 2008 I said. Had I informed HMRC and Companies House about it, yes, I've been submitting accounts since then. Then came questions about why I was claiming if I had a business, etc. I argued that I'd been in this country for 30 years and showed a letter that refers to my NIC record, dated 2010, and I had another pile of paper showing what I'd been doing since 2010. They were not interested and just made a note under "other comments".

 

They told me it would all go back to the processing centre and I may not hear before I was due to sign on the following week. The day before I was due, I got a letter merely stating "You are currently not required to pass the genuine prospect of work due to you having an alternative right to reside". It was dated the day after the interview, I guess they took one quick look and saw that, if I had actually been filing accounts since 2008, then I must have been living here at least since then (and I'm also still at the same address, which happens to be the registered office). A lot of time and hassle would have been saved have they asked about he last five years rather than the last three months on the day of the Habitual Residence Test at the start of the claim, but those DWP advisors are just puppets of the computer systems that tell them what to ask for.

 

I hope this is useful for anyone in a similar position.

[**Margaret**]

:Spring blues:

 

Thanx for coming back to us with an update. I, for one, know very little about residency issues but I know a bit more now. And I'm sure your story will help others who're searching for info on the same issues.

 

Best of luck with the job hunt, Margaret.

[king12345]

Yes completely unnecessary, we don't attack people because of their jobs, whatever it was. Everyone is entitled to advice......well I might draw the line at Ian Duncan Smith!

 

Also in this case, the way I read it you're also probably incorrect - they are talking about working in London the city, for all you know they could be tube driver.

 

Clearly you are unaware that tube drivers earn over £50k per year and have 37 days annual leave, free travel for them and partner, final salary scheme, fully paid sickness, access to company gyms and occupational health including physiotherapists and one of the best pension ever existed.

Many people wish they were "just" tube drivers...

[honeybee13]

Could we bear in mind please that we're here to advise Spring blue. It we be appreciated if we could go back to answering their queries.

 

Thank you.

 

HB

[gioppino]

Can I jump in this thread? I'm also interested in this topic. To the OP, Springblue, did you have to order and/or show the permanent residence card or certificate? I'm trying to fill the form myself and it's very difficult to fill. A solicitor has asked me £500 to fill the residence certificate form. Any information will be appreciated.

[SabreSheep]

Hi Gioppino

 

You may want to start your own thread. You can post a link here so the OP can give info on your issue.

 

Means other people can see your problem and assist better

 

Regards

 

SS

[gioppino]

Hi Gioppino

 

You may want to start your own thread. You can post a link here so the OP can give info on your issue.

 

Means other people can see your problem and assist better

 

Regards

 

SS

 

I'll surely do, but I still think it's important to know if the OP had to hand out any certificate to solve his/her problem or the DWP just accepted his evidence at face value, because this might affect my own case.

[citizenmichael]

Sorry about "bumping" your forum. I am posting a reply to Gioppino and Spring blues, but more importantly to any future readers with similar trouble. Also, my reply only applies to people with "permanent resident" status, EEA nationals acquire this status automatically after living in any EEA host country legally for continuous period of 5 years. I will also use a DMG abbreviation which stands for "Decision Makers' Guide".

 

To Gioppino: As of now, authorities cannot legally require you to present permanent residency certificate (PR card is for non EEA nationals). To prove my point, please Google "DMG 073429". But you still might pursue one as it is requirement for application for British Naturalisation, it also should make your future dealings with authorities faster and easier. The certificate costs £65 as of July 2016

 

To Spring blues: Your statement "Apparently you can only claim for 6 months as a EU citizen" is false in your case. That is routine DWP statement. You as a Permanent Resident in UK have to be treated on the same terms as UK national. UK nationals do not have such restrictions.

 

To prove my point, please Google "EEA nationals: the ‘right to reside’ requirement for benefits" and download the PDF from government webpage, the part that is relevant to you is this: "Standard Note: SN/SP/5972, Last updated: 5 December 2011, Author: Steven Kennedy, Section Social Policy Section: EEA nationals who have ‘resided legally’ in the UK for a continuous period of five years (or less in certain circumstances) acquire a permanent right of residence and have access to benefits and tax credits on the same terms as UK nationals."

 

Now because you have not been treated as an UK national normally would, the DWP was in fact directly discriminating against you. To prove my point, please Google "DMG 070220", you will find this: " Any discrimination on the grounds of nationality is Forbidden, 1. A person is entitled to SS benefits under the same conditions as a national of a country if that person is ....". DWP is very commonly discriminating against people with Permanent Residency status, for example by asking them to attend GPoW assessment.

 

Again to prove my point, the rules for GPoW test are in "DMG 073080": "This paragraph will not apply to anyone with a right to reside other than as a jobseeker or person retaining worker status (see DMG 073234 et seq)". Permanent Residence status is the OTHER right to reside. This is not to be confused with HRT (Habitual Residence Test), everyone, including UK nationals have to pass this test.

 

I do understand this reply will not help you, it is too late now, but I hope it will help others with similar problems.

 

Mike

Edited July 27, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.