ESA and permitted work

[fletch70]

I am on ESA wrag and have been sent to intraining. Today i was told that even if i go back to work or more likely go into further education they still have to contact me on a regular basis until my 2 years are up. This to me seems madness and a complete waste of money.

[fletch70]

If i start a small part time job say 8 hours a week what hoops will i need to jump through i.e. Who do i tell etc and how us tax worked out.

Any advice gratefully received

[dyfed]

If or when you gain employment just sign off and tell em nothing. Ignore all letters and calls.

This is the only way to bring the system down, starve them of their money!

Just to be clear, you dont by law need to tell em you have a job. Just sign off.

[antone]

Yes, they are obliged to try and contact you for two years under the terms of their contract with the DWP. They also need to know where you are working in order to claim their outcome payment for "finding you work".

 

However, as Dyfed says, you are under no obligation to tell them where you are working or to speak to them at all after your claim is closed. Just be warned that if you tell the DWP where you are working, they will pass this information on to the WP provider. Of course, you're not obliged to tell the DWP either.

[antone]

Contact the office that pays your ESA. They will send you form PW1 to complete and return. You can work for up to 15 hrs 59 mins per week for 52 weeks, or up to 4 hrs 59 mins per week for as long as you like. I can't remember what the maximum earnings are but it's around £100 per week in the first case and £20 in the second. You must be paid at least NMW.

 

As far as tax goes, I'm afraid I'm not 100% sure. Certainly your earnings are taxable, although in practice you might not earn enough to actually pay any tax. I believe that ESA© counts as taxable income, so if you receive that it would need to be included in your total for the year.

[lenny100]

tell you the truth it more than it worth trying to do any type of work whilst on esa as they will use it as a resion to remove you from the benifit and tax you over the odds, i know i tryed, as i got a job working 6 hrs every two weeks through my health team at hospital. after a few weeks all was going fine till the phone calls started wanting to the second the times i worked, and letters from my doctor on why i was still unfit to work, etc. the suport people told me ,also my employer was also getting calls and had withdrawn from the helping hands program because of the constant calls about people they were trying to help!

[fletch70]

It seems absolute madness and a complete waste of money. If things work out I will be signing off at the end of sept to go to Uni to get myself into even more debt lol

I do not have any ill will to the intraining people and it may be that they can get me some permitted work , if that is the case they can have the details .

 

It just makes me mad (or is that madder) that money and resources are wasted following people who have got into work yet they sanction you at the drop of a hat.

 

Thanks for the comments

[fletch70]

Thanks . I know that if I do some work I will fail my next WCA but I plan to be at Uni by then so it does not matter.

[fletch70]

Does anyone know if it is still true that as soon as you phone up for a permitted work form they suspend your ESA. If so how long does it normally take to get going again. I know I can manipulate it so I have two weeks but if I miss a payment I may be a little screwed. Also will they tell HB they have suspended your claim?

 

I am beginning to wonder if it is going to be worth the agro as I know what it will do to me

[fletch70]

Hi all

Is it still the case that the suspend your ESA as soon as you phone up for the permitted work form . Also how long does it take them to process and do they tell the council as well that it is suspended?

 

It is looking promising that I have an 8 hour a week job

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Does the 'permitted work form' mean that you are filling and signing it to say that you are fit for work and ready to come off ESA?

 

 

On JSA, at least, any change of circumstances appears to trigger an immediate stop, or alteration, being put to, or made to benefits, including housing benefits.

[fletch70]

No as far as it says you are asking to do some part time work (up to 16 hours earning up to £101 without having to come off benefit. The idea is you can dip your toe in the water to see if you can manage work and build up from there).

You do not need a Dr's permission and can do it for 12 months without having to come off ESA. Obviously if you are due a WCA in that time it might makeit a tad harder to prove that you aren't fit for work

 

For me it is a step to see if I can cope with real people again , part of my goal of getting better

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Your second post appears to answer your first.

 

 

Good luck with the job, by the way.

[fletch70]

Sadly it doesn't as there is a post here from 2011 where they suspended the claim while a decision maker decided if it was permitted work. Ok so they pay backpack but that doesn't help if you are working two weeks in hand and have no money

[jabba jones]

(up to 16 hours earning up to £101 without having to come off benefit. The idea is you can dip your toe in the water to see if you can manage work and build up from there).

 

It has to be less than 16 hours per week, not up to 16 hours per week. That 1 minute between 15 hrs 59 mins & 16 hrs can make a big difference!

 

For me it is a step to see if I can cope with real people again , part of my goal of getting better

 

Which is exactly what Permitted Work (Higher Limit) is designed for. It's not a way to top up your earnings which is where some people get caught out, hence the 1 year limit.

 

Good Luck.

[fletch70]

Hi Jabba. I was told today it is an average of hours but god alone knows how true that is and how many weeks that is over.

 

Still need to know if they suspend esa while they are deciding if it is permitted work.

[rebel11]

Hi fletch70

 

https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/eligibility

[jabba jones]

Hi Jabba. I was told today it is an average of hours but god alone knows how true that is and how many weeks that is over.

 

Still need to know if they suspend esa while they are deciding if it is permitted work.

 

Yes its less than 16 hours per week on average. You just need to be very careful with your calculations if you're going to go down that route.

 

I don't know if they'll susp your ESA. My experience relates to a small local Incapacity Benefit section from several years ago & as long as the proposed work on the PW1 looked ok we'd had no reason to suspend.

 

I've no idea how the big centralised ESA sections deal with things nowadays.

[antone]

If you are weekly paid, your wages and hours will be averaged over 5 weeks. If monthly paid, it is over 3 months.

 

As to suspension, I can only recall how I would have done it, but that was a few years ago now. Basically, there were three possibilities, depending on what a claimant told me when they got in contact:

 

1) If the claimant said they were considering PW at some date in the future, I'd send PW1 and do nothing else - no suspension.

 

2) If they said they would be starting PW at a definite future date I'd send PW1 and set a "case control" (basically, an alarm or alert) for that date and suspend if PW1 hadn't been returned by said date.

 

3) If they said they had started work already, I would have to suspend there and then pending return of the PW1.

 

But things may have changed, so please don't take this as Gospel.

[fletch70]

Thanks Antone

It is all academic now as I went for what I was told was two days or "slave labour" to be told actually it was 5 days . So they wanted someone who is on ESA and therefore unfit to work to do 5 days unpaid .On top of that I was only looking for 8-12 hours a week to see how it went. When I told in training they one woman actually said that was part of the deal in Wrag but luckily her boss was more sympathetic .

 

I have really strong views on this on several different levels . If I was on JSA and desperate for a job I would have done it because 1 person can not beat the system . It's the sort of headlind the DM would love but I will not stoop so low ...if it was the Guardian that would be different

[fletch70]

Ok so i am in ESA. Wrag and after 12 months i was passed on to intraining. I used to go once a week fir an hour and now go for two hours.

As i also get an element if DLA. I am told that i will still be eligible for ESA when i start unit at the end of Sept. By the way i am 49 single and love alone.

It seems fairly pointless to keep going but obviously do not want to be sanctioned.

Any thoughts,do i just put up with it or do i speak to them. I an cat 5 i think and should have been passed over to the ESA advisor but seem to have slipped through the net.

Any thoughts please

[abc123def]

As a side issue, unless your Uni course is postgraduate and you have depleted your availability of student finance, all of your student finance will be taken into account when assessing how much you will receive from ESA. They take into account any student loans/bursaries/grants you are entitled to claim even if you don't claim them. So far I have yet to meet a student with disabilities who although is entitled to continue claiming ESA while they study, actually receives any because of this as their student income is too high. Sorry that didn't answer your question, but thought I would mention in case it is something you are unaware of. Not only does my dd no longer receive ESA, but no longer receives HB because of her student loans/bursaries etc., so effectively she is getting in debt to pay her rent. She doesn't count for CT though as a full time student.

 

Also if you will be in receipt of student finance it covers the period from September 1st to end of June each year, so note that you need to inform the DWP of that income for that period. So student finance covers dates before your course starts though you won't receive payment until after if that makes sense.

[fletch70]

Thanks for the info, I know that student finance is a nightmare, very complicated and to be honest I have as many different answers as people I have asked. I will be surprised if I do get any ESA but the HB is a different ball game. According to the student welfare office at the uni I am going to I should get some but we shall see. It is impossible to confirm any changes in circumstances until the course actually starts as until I register I will not be a student , so again we will see.

I do know there are certain disregards for travel and books to be set against your income

I am not saying I do not believe what you are saying and I have worked out affordability on the basis that I get no benefits at all. Of course if you don't ask you don't get and I am quite used to fighting my local council for what is right

[Nystagmite]

Not all your student finance will be counted. There are disregards and as you're on DLA, you're entitled to the special support grant. This is disregarded in full for benefits.

[fletch70]

Thanks Nystagmite

As you can see for every person asked there is a different answer although what you have said seems to be inline with what some others have suggested . I am grateful for all comments/suggestions etc. If I am perfectly honest I am wondering if I have done the right thing as the anxiety over all this and the what ifs is kinda killing me . However I will never know until I try and it is a subject I can truly get on my soapbox about