Gross Misconduct ?? Opinions please

[hsbclinkdcms]

Hi,

 

 

To cut a long story short I am being formally investigated by another manager.

The company has a formal procedure in investigations and part of this is checking IT. They will find in the recycle bin pictures depicting the Boss in an uncomplimentary manner....I got rid of them a long time ago as they were innappropriate, but I did not empty the recycle bin!

I never sent them to anyone else or printed them but I'm sure that they will find them.

 

Do you think this would be Gross Misconduct ??

 

Thank you.

[Emmzzi]

define "uncomplimentary" and please advise how you got them in the first place

[hsbclinkdcms]

His face appears transposed on two tyrannical historical figures and I did them.

[hsbclinkdcms]

Monumentally stupid I know !!

 

Lots of views, any thoughts or opinions please, all gratefully received

[Emmzzi]

hilter and/or gengis khan style, I imagine?

 

Well, if found, I cannot imagine it'll do a lot for your working relationship with the boss, even if it isn't gross misconduct. It's going to make you appear vindictive and immature.. and also not fully occupied at work if you have time to do that.

 

Given that perspective, does it matter that much what any hearing would find?

 

So I think you are crossing your fingers that the IT check is not that precise.

[hsbclinkdcms]

Thanks Emmzzi,

 

there's always a lot of spare time in the role I fulfill and the firm are aware of this, half my job is sitting around doing nothing!

 

But Immature and vindictive is well put and about sums it up !

 

I have had a good 20+ years with this firm without any previous disciplinary issues or warnings, all tasks completed to budget and on time and I'd like that to carry on. But I don't think they will miss it so I am scared to death that this would be seen by them as Gross Misconduct. I believe I can only face summary dismissal for Gross Misconduct.

It's a big firm and I think that other than this issue I've not had anything to do with the Boss himself nor am I likely to.

 

 

I also genuinely suffer from acute anxiety and I am just bouncing around everywhere at the mo........

[maddiemay]

Doesn't the recycle bin automatically empty after a certain period of time?

[hsbclinkdcms]

That's what I thought but those in the know say not, the whole system's a bit antiquated.

 

I got rid of them because I knew they were wrong, I just realise now that I didn't do a good enough job!

[renegadeimp]

If only my boss could see the things my workers have created about him.... Some of them were pretty hilarious.

[hsbclinkdcms]

But if he did see those would he see them as Gross Misconduct ?

[renegadeimp]

Dunno. Im a system Administrator, so even if he tried he would never see them. But he's just like any other main boss. Sits in an office all day or travels from site to site for pointless meetings. So he'd probably never see them unless he paid a fortune for forensic level analysis. But it's doubtful that anything like that would happen unless the workers threw them on the accounting system machines.

[Emmzzi]

Thanks Emmzzi,

 

there's always a lot of spare time in the role I fulfill and the firm are aware of this, half my job is sitting around doing nothing!

 

But Immature and vindictive is well put and about sums it up !

 

I have had a good 20+ years with this firm without any previous disciplinary issues or warnings, all tasks completed to budget and on time and I'd like that to carry on. But I don't think they will miss it so I am scared to death that this would be seen by them as Gross Misconduct. I believe I can only face summary dismissal for Gross Misconduct.

It's a big firm and I think that other than this issue I've not had anything to do with the Boss himself nor am I likely to.

 

 

I also genuinely suffer from acute anxiety and I am just bouncing around everywhere at the mo........

 

 

I can't tell you that things you do, don't have consequences.

 

It will rather depend what they are looking for in the search, however.

 

Might get myself to the GPs if you are suffering atm.

[maddiemay]

I would think they'd have to be pretty desperate to pin something on you to go back through the entire recycle bin! Let's hope they only go back a few weeks, and that you've learnt that your time/ privacy/life is owned by them whilst on their premises.

 

Fingers crossed for you

[ericsbrother]

It would be a very odd one to try and pin you down with as some evidence of malice and attempt to disseminate it would normally be required to get any further than inappropriate use of company resources. The IT person would have a duty of confidentiality unless he was tasked to trawl though your computer files as part of a disciplinary investigation or other such formal reason.

[Strider440]

To bring any disciplinary for this, they'd have to prove beyond doubt that you did it.

 

You could easily claim it was sent by email and you simply deleted them as soon as you saw them.

 

You could claim that someone else used that PC.

 

I work in the defence sector and even on our network I could plant files on someone else's PC. I could even edit the created and modified date to say it was done on a day that I wasn't even at work. Hell I could change the name of the person that created/edited the file to the MD of the company if I wanted to.

I once changed someone's desktop background to a giant photo of Big Bird and remotely flipped someone's screen upside down.

 

Don't accept anything and let them try to prove beyond doubt that it was you, because i'm telling you they can't. Anything is possible with 95% of commercial IT infrastructures and even the IT dept won't know all the hacks and backdoors in their own systems. That's why big companies pay people like my closest friends to actively hack their networks to help them increase security.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Strider440

[renegadeimp]

To bring any disciplinary for this, they'd have to prove beyond doubt that you did it.

 

You could easily claim it was sent by email and you simply deleted them as soon as you saw them.

 

You could claim that someone else used that PC.

 

I work in the defence sector and even on our network I could plant files on someone else's PC. I could even edit the created and modified date to say it was done on a day that I wasn't even at work. Hell I could change the name of the person that created/edited the file to the MD of the company if I wanted to.

I once changed someone's desktop background to a giant photo of Big Bird and remotely flipped someone's screen upside down.

 

Don't accept anything and let them try to prove beyond doubt that it was you, because i'm telling you they can't. Anything is possible with 95% of commercial IT infrastructures and even the IT dept won't know all the hacks and backdoors in their own systems. That's why big companies pay people like my closest friends to actively hack their networks to help them increase security.

 

It's very easily proven. Most rooms that have computers in them are covered by CCTV, and then theres also the username that was logged in at the time of creation and deletion.

[Strider440]

It's very easily proven. Most rooms that have computers in them are covered by CCTV, and then theres also the username that was logged in at the time of creation and deletion.

 

Any CCTV won't pick up that level of detail and probably got erased anyway.

Usernames and creation times mean nothing, as I said these can be spoofed VERY easily.

 

The IT dept will undoubtedly consist of graduates, who quite frankly memorised a few text books and don't really know a fat lot about the darkside of IT.

[renegadeimp]

Cctv is used to see the person at the computer at a specific time. Most companies have software installed to see who is logged on and what programs were accesses.

[Emmzzi]

 

The IT dept will undoubtedly consist of graduates, who quite frankly memorised a few text books and don't really know a fat lot about the darkside of IT.

 

... ahahahaha!

[renegadeimp]

The IT dept will undoubtedly consist of graduates, who quite frankly memorised a few text books and don't really know a fat lot about the darkside of IT.

 

In most companies, thats spot on In the department i run, i never hire anyone unless they can show their aptitude and working knowledge and back it up with experience. Qualifications mean nothing to me if you don't have knowledge of the position in the real world.

[hsbclinkdcms]

I'm going to go the honest route on this, might be better, might not.

 

On the initial investigation I was dragged to the Operational Managers office where this appeared out of the blue. He did not offer me the help of a friend or a union rep and I was asked many questions which I answered truthfully. I explained the situation to them and after he discussed this with the other manager present he stated that he accepted what I had said about the situation and I was to see them in the morning. The director then came in and said that he would deal with this in the morning.

In the morning I went to the directors office where he threatened me with suspension with a view to dismissal, totally out of the blue!!

He started the 'investigation' all over again basically asking me the same questions that the OM had asked.

Eventually he said that he was putting it to investigation and that he wanted it 'boxed off' in a fortnight and then informed me 'you'll receive a punishment at the end, you will be punished'.

Now the handbook for managers involved in investigations is that they must be done with impartiality and integrity, I fail to see if it has already been decided prior to any disciplinary hearing that I am guilty and will be punished how this can be the case ??

[Emmzzi]

Well, not the letter of the law, but you've admitted it.

You're surprised he's angry, really?

 

Note, no right to be accompanied at the investigation stage; just the disciplinary.

[hsbclinkdcms]

But that's the point I didn't admit to anything, certainly not what they were saying and at the initial fact finding they accepted my version of events. No hearing as of yet and I'm guilty....you're right, not the letter of the law !!

 

My staff book specifically states that I have the right to be accompanied at all stages.

[Emmzzi]

I'm confused.

 

You already told us you did it, and you said you answered their questions truthfully - how is that aligned to not admitting anything? I think I've missed something here!

[hsbclinkdcms]

There was an initial investigation (which is an unrelated matter to the question asked in this thread) where the investigating manager was asked to look at my IT. Because of that I'm presuming they will find the pictures previously mentioned and forming the theme of this thread. I have not admitted anything about these pictures as I have not been asked about them (yet) but I will do so if and when asked.

 

The Director made his punishment statement prior to this initial investigation taking place (prior to anything really) from his 'fact finding' interview with myself. I never admitted anything and never would since the cause of the initial investigation was a mistake which even the Operational manager accepted, but evidently I am still going to be found guilty and punished in any case !!