VCS letter received. Can you help please

[jannyT]

Hi all

 

I'm posting on behalf of my son. Hope you can give us some advice.

 

My son lives in a privately rented flat. It is a gated community and each flat has one parking space and all cars must show a permit.

 

We have just received a letter to my address. My son's car is still registered at our ( his parents) address.

 

Basically the letter is advising that his car was parked at the flat in the parking space but not displaying a permit. They also say that they have either put a sticker on the car or previously contacted him about this. They have done neither and this letter is the first they have been contacted about it. My son is adamant that the permit has been displayed on the windscreen at all times. They are asking for £100 from him!

 

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Previously he received a parking charge invoice from Parking Eye which we ignored and it eventually went away but this was a couple of years ago now - not connected to his flat but in a cinema car park - but I understand that ignoring these notices is not now recommended?

 

Would be grateful for your thoughts please.

 

Many thanks

 

Jan

[renegadeimp]

Hi there. You are right that you should't ignore this. Many PPC's take ignorance as an opportunity to issue a court claim form and attempt to get judgement by default.

 

Sit tight and the regulars will be around to give you steps on what to do. Your issue is very easily dealt with, you just need to make sure you follow the right procedure.

[jannyT]

Thank you renegadeimp

 

My son is currently scanning the letter over to me so that I can see dates etc. and put the appeal together for him.

 

I'm going to put an appeal together for him but I'm wondering if we should ask to see evidence of the original notice that he never received from them?

 

I'll wait for some expert advice from the regulars.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jan

[renegadeimp]

if you decide to post the letter, make sure you edit out any personal info/reference numbers etc.

[jannyT]

Ok thanks.

[jannyT]

Hi again. So, I now have a copy of the correspondence. It is headed "Notice to keeper/driver". Basically it is saying that a PCN was issued on 31/1/14 and that a notice was either affixed to the vehicle or posted. It states that the car was parked in a privately owned car park without displaying a permit. This document is dated 5/3/14 and is the first notification received.

 

There are a couple of issues here:

 

1. My son has not received the PCN. There was nothing fixed to his vehicle on 31 January, nor did he receive this via the post. The notice received on 5/3/14 is the first notification he has received from them.

 

2. The car WAS displaying a valid permit. It has been on the car for almost 18 months. It was put on the windscreen when he received it when he moved into his flat, it has never been removed and it is still there now.

 

So, I assume that we have to "appeal" even though he never actually received a PCN? And. Then when they reject the appeal we ask (or they should issue) a POPLA reference number?

 

As the privately owned car park to which they refer belongs to the company he pays rent to and includes the space in his rent, should we also be writing to them to ask how much their loss is? I'm thinking not since my son maintains that he did display his permit and therefore did nothing to cause a "loss".

 

Hope this makes sense. At advice greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

J

[renegadeimp]

Appeal anyway. Doesnt matter what you put, theyll reject it. They cant make it stand anyway. Especially if he is a resident and parked there. Like i said, the regulars will be around soon, and they can give you the exact defence to get rid of these cowboys.

[ericsbrother]

Your son should write backto them and tell them that it is parking space and that they have trespassed by placing the ticket on his car and that their pursuit of this matter is harassment and should cease forthwith otherwise legal action will be taken for damages. Any further ticketing of his vehicle will also result in a civil claim without further warning.

There are a couple of threads on this forum about similar cases where the parking co hasnt taken heed and has been successfully sued. Check them out and if it was VCS involved remind them of this.

[mikeymack2002]

Your son should write backto them and tell them that it is parking space and that they have trespassed by placing the ticket on his car and that their pursuit of this matter is harassment and should cease forthwith otherwise legal action will be taken for damages. Any further ticketing of his vehicle will also result in a civil claim without further warning.

There are a couple of threads on this forum about similar cases where the parking co hasnt taken heed and has been successfully sued. Check them out and if it was VCS involved remind them of this.

 

 

 

It's not trespass it's criminal damage, believe it or not , check with any police officer if stuck to the vehicle

 

 

MM

[f16]

It's not trespass it's criminal damage, believe it or not , check with any police officer

MM

 

MM, It's neither "One or the other".

 

OP states in post#1 "It was never affixed to the vehicle"

[jannyT]

MM, It's neither "One or the other".

 

OP states in post#1 "It was never affixed to the vehicle"

 

f16 is quite right. There was nothing affixed to the vehicle neither did they post the PCN on to him!

 

However, there have been a couple of developments:

 

We sent the appeal in to VCS yesterday, asking for the POPLA reference if it was rejected.

 

Also, my son emailed the landowners (the people he pays rent to for his flat and parking space) and they have emailed VCS as follows:

 

Dear xxx

 

I have received an email from a very angry resident at xxxxxxx who has received a parking ticket even though he was parked in his own allocated bay and was displaying a ticket. This is the second ticket he has received for no good reason and we can only assume that this is an error by your parking attendants. The ticket number is xxxxxxxxxxx.

 

We would like this ticket rescinded as this issue is causing bad feeling and the resident is, with good cause, very angry about the situation.

 

Please confirm that this ticket will be cancelled by responding to Mr xxxxx who is copied in on this email.

 

Many thanks for your assistance.

 

 

How good is that?? We are awaiting response from VCS........

[mikeymack2002]

LOL great result, also did the PPC give you the all important POPLA number yet? If not ask them why not!

 

 

Lets see what the new letter bring to the table.

 

 

Please update thread as and when

 

 

MM

[ericsbrother]

I hope that your son gets an apology as well but I doubt it will be a heartfelt one. Let us know what VCS say when they cancel.

[jannyT]

Ok so not what we expected. It appears that the permit had fallen off at the time the warden was there. Neither my son or his partner can remember this as they never put a notice on the windscreen or sent the PCN. The "offence" took place in January and the weather was cold and wet and it seems that the permit - and most of the tax disc peeled off due to the bad weather. However, VCS have submitted photographs to the owner of the land clearly showing no permit and basically saying "tough - the "motorist" clearly has thinks that the rules don't apply to him. He needs to appeal".

 

Firstly, my son is not "the motorist" but "the keeper". However, landlord has emailed back to say that in view of this they can't help further sorry. Son has just emailed them back to ask for a breakdown of their losses and to disagree that they can't help further because he feels they could if they chose to do so. He has also pointed out that his contract with them is up for renewal in a couple of months so he may be looking for a new place to live if this is an example of the value they place on their tenants.

 

So, appeal is in. Obviously it's going to be rejected based on the response from VCS to the owner of the land, so I guess we just wait for the POPLA code and go down that route?

 

Grrrr

[renegadeimp]

Wait? The landlord/landowner, who has full control over this, is letting VCS dictate things to him?

[jannyT]

Wait? The landlord/landowner, who has full control over this, is letting VCS dictate things to him?

 

Yep... that's about the score. Actual words from the landowner were:

 

"

Please see the email below from Vehicle Control. The attached photos show that no permit was being displayed and for this reason I will be unable to assist any further.

 

If you wish to contest this ticket you must contact Vehicle Control directly to make your appeal.

 

I am sorry I cannot be of more help on this occasion, but please do not hesitate to contact me for any future enquiries regarding communal issues on site."

 

Good isn't it?

[renegadeimp]

Sounds like theyve told the landlord " hey, if you let us do this, we might be able to get a nice bit of cash for you for no work."

[armadillo71]

What was your appeal to VCS? Did you state that they must send you a valid POPLA code if they reject your appeal?

[ericsbrother]

They dont need to put their permit in the windscreen as it is their allocated parking space and their contract/tenancy is superior to anything that has been drawn up by the LL and VCS. Look at your tenancy agreement and if that isnt helpful get a copy of the deeds for the flat (assuming that the flats are sold on a lease, you will get a copy from Land Registry for £3 and that will tell you about the allocation of parking spot) and if that offers clarity tell VCS where to go.

It would be helpful if you could explain relationship between your son's tenancy and the landowner, is the entire community managed by freeholder? are all flats rented? Just need to ascertain relationship between landowner and your son because if they are acting as managing agents for leased flats they have no more right to sign up contractors that managing agents do-which makes them void the contract supposedly breached.

[jannyT]

Hi thanks for the replies.

 

Yes, he has appealed. He did that yesterday by email and has received an automated response. He has asked for a POPLA code should the appeal be rejected.

 

As I previously stated, my son lives in a rented apartment with allocated parking space. He has a permit for the space which is displayed in his car. However, the car is registered in his name but at our address (his parents).

 

The first contact he received from VCS regarding his "contravention" was when he received at our address the notice to keeper dated earlier this month - March. It is referring to the contravention taking place end of January and that a notice was placed on the windscreen or sent by post. However, there was no PCN placed on the windscreen nor posted. They couldn't have posted it because the car isn't registered at his address but at ours (his parents) so they couldn't have found this information at that time And posted the PCN and evidence am I correct with this?

 

Yesterday, therefore, when my son appealed to VCS he stated that the car did have the permit on display - because he believed it was. He also advised that he was resident and the car was parked in the bay allocated to him. And, finally pointing out that he had received no PCN prior to NTK. He finally asked for the POPLA code should his appeal be rejected.

 

Today he contacted the company he pays rent to and who administer everything related to the flats to ask for assistance - see above post. They did contact VCS to ask that the PCN be cancelled. However, VCS came back rejecting this and sent images taken at the time clearly showing no permit on display. My son did recall at some stage months ago getting in the car one morning and the permit had fallen off so he simply stuck it back on the windscreen thinking nothing about it. As they didn't receive a PCN showing these images he obviously didn't connect the permit falling off to this.

 

Anyway, following this company he pays rent to advised him that they can't help further.

 

Ericsbrother - you are correct. They are not the landowners. They are the agents employed to look after the site. Although they did say that the parking system was set up at the request of the management company. Not sure if management company and agents are the same thing??

 

Regarding his rental contract it simply states under "individually negotiated terms " car parking included - yes" and then gives the parking bay number.

 

Really hoping that in the appeal my son innocently advising that the permit was on display and then the photographic evidence received today showing no permit won't go against him when he appeals to POPLA.

 

Sorry for the length of this post. Trying to give as much info as possible.

[armadillo71]

If it gets to POPLA he will win.

They have pictures of the car with no permit, so they must have pictures of the windscreen ticket (NTD) then?

[ericsbrother]

Management co have no rights to do anything in this case. They think they can but it will end in tears for them if they try throwing their weight around. Any contract between them and parking co is wrthless as far as tenancy goes. Son has the right to be there, that is the end of it.

[jannyT]

Thanks very much. We have a copy of Land. Registry bought for£3 as Ericsbrother advises. However how do we get a copy of deeds? nothing in land registry relating to this. Interesting though. The site is owned by large banking company for £Millions many! Any advise?

[f16]

jannyT, That is , More good news then.

It sounds like "The land owner" has appointed a "Managing agent". So the chance of VCS having a "valid contract" is remote.

 

This will go to a POPLA appeal. With a correctly worded defense from CAG you will WIN.

[jannyT]

Hi ready to appeal through POPLA once we receive the inevitable rejection, which I estimate is due 28 April. However I'm wondering how long we get to put our appeal in to POPLA once received I have an upcoming holiday and don't want to miss my timeslot.