Erudio using state benefits, refuse deferement, i want to go to court over this

[dx100uk]

again, I stress I would not be firing you bullets

just return the form.

 

whatever you/they said on the phone is inadmissible

you cant ack a debt on the phone so likewise

your regretful admittance to you having CB etc cant be used against you either.

 

the same as you cant prove what lies you are told on the phone either.

 

the trick that you'll read here on every DCA thread [regardless to it being this DCA and YOUR SLC debt]

 

is NEVER EVER talk on the phone to a DCA...there are no exceptions to this.

 

IF and when rodeo put in writing what they are saying about benefits

its then you quote the original T&C's & the consumer credit act to them

 

and also report them to the relevant authorities

for varying the original Creditors T&C without you signing a new agreement.

 

well done

 

think you've got it now good post sabby.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

if you've not got a copy of YOUR SIGNED agreements

 

then send of 2 CCA requests to them as well.

[oldstudent]

Sabby, I hate to say this and I hope you win the dispute but, on the scans of original loan agreements posted on the mumsnet thread - SLC define Gross income as: "income from all sources before deduction of tax but not including any disability related benefits"

 

As a layman, that means to me that housing, child benefit, income support etc - every single benefit under the sun EXCEPT disabilty and only except disabilty related benefits, is counted as part of your gross income. And if your gross income is over £2398 you're done for

 

I can only wish you luck with it - but I can't see a way out of that one

[sabby1978]

"income from all sources before deduction of tax but not including any disability related benefits"

 

 

Old person, benefits like housing benefit are not taxable, so that statement is saying all income on which you would pay tax, like from earnings, inheritance etc not welfare benefits but I needed that quote so fab

[sabby1978]

Yes all those benefits are part of your gross income but they only consider the gross income that is taxable - welfare benefits are not. Does that make things a little clearer.

 

 

And thanks DX once u get through the initial shock and worry, ur kind of left feeling a little P***ed that they do stuff like this, thank heavens for communities like this.

[dx100uk]

 

you're learning

 

dx

[oldstudent]

I see how you're reading that... interesting.

 

Personally, I suspect they meant "income from all sources" AND whether that income is taxable or not taxable - but before any tax has been deducted.

 

I hope you're right but why would they make a special point of saying "not including disabilty related benefits" which I presume are also untaxable, when by your argument, they should have said "not including any benefits" because your position is based on all benefits being treated as non-taxable income.

 

So why didn't they state that?

 

Who knows?

 

That's just down to semantics and some you win/some you lose.

 

Good luck in any case. One for the people!

[sabby1978]

Old student its nothing to do with semantics,

 

im not a benefits expert and its prob not helpful to keep repeating the same thing,

 

tax credits and housing benefits are means tested benefits that are non taxable because they are given for a specific reason

rent , childcare - the recipient does not pay tax on it

 

however it is considered part of their gross income and on the original Student loan agreement

they only considered taxable earnings in their calculations

http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/portal/page?_pageid=93,3867045&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL (please see the link).

 

DLA on the other hand is a non means tested benefit and you could get it if you were a millionaire

and it is to help people with covering the extra costs that may occur as a result of their disability

and to help them remain as independent as possible i.e. for a carer, getting cabs, therapeutic activities,

 

taking this money away from someone would be comparable to taking a guide dog away from a blind person

which is why they make a point of making reference to DLA,

 

they could also be accused of a number of other things if they tried to take someones disability money

i.e. breaching human rights etc.

 

Are things a little clearer?

[dx100uk]

now go put mumsnet right shabby

 

dx

[sabby1978]

DX, one more query. I have 4 loans under one student loan reference, should I send 4 CCA requests or would one suffice?

[WarrenBuffet]

1 CCA as all four are now grouped/sold as one. Quote the combined loans reference.

[oldstudent]

I wish you the best of luck with your interpretation of the terms Sabby - although I've seen no evidence to support your view anywhere.

 

It seems clear to me that SLC use Gross income to mean ALL income, from all sources, whether that income is taxable or not, BUT (added together) before that tax has been deducted - whether the income is taxable or not.

 

That is quite simply not the same as saying they only base their calculation on 'taxable income'.

 

Perhaps they will be open to that reading of the meaning of the terms but personally, I wouldn't book my holidays on the strength of my case.

 

There's lots of 'warriors' who'll advise you to fight battles but you need to assess this one brutally honestly - it's your anxiety levels that will suffer.

 

Again - good luck - I hope you win it and let everyone know if you do and then they can use this argument.

[sabby1978]

Old student if that was the case why did the SLC accept my defermenta over the last 4 years, my circumstances have not changed and they didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. And on the last link I posted it clearly stated taxable earnings, welfare benefits are not earnings. Contracts and their terms and conditions are not based on semantics that are open to interpretation.

 

This situation can no longer cause me any anxiety because my vibrational energy is high and even if I'm wrong (which I doubt very strongly) and I have to start paying, ill offer £5 or £10 which they will have no choice to accpet and if they attempt to corrupt my credit file I will report them to the OFT and the ombudsman for malicious activity and it will no doubt be removed and if its not ill add a not to my credot file explaining the situation so that other potential creditors have some context.

 

But yes I will keep you all updated, the account will now have to be put on hold as I've sent a cca request:)

[WarrenBuffet]

You do appear to have a good grasp of the situation Sabby, fight your corner as they will bully you otherwise.

 

One other thing too, although it may be a few years away ... If you took out your loans before the age of 30, they will be written off in full when you reach the age of 50.

[oldstudent]

NOT 30

 

40

- if you took out the last of your loans before the age of 40,

they will be written off when you reach 50,

or after 25 years,

or if you were over 40 at last loan when you reach 60

- whichever is sooner.

 

Check legislation UK for full and accurate regulations on student loans

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1675/regulation/12/made#text%3Dstudent%20loans%20cancellation

[billy_79]

oldstudent is correct,

most common state benefits were/are included in the gross income figure that the SLC (and now Erudio) worked to.

 

I have copies of the old SLC deferment forms, where it states this pretty clearly. I can post a copy if it would be useful?

 

I also disagree when people are saying that working/child tax credits shouldn't count.

The whole purpose of these benefits is to top up the income of low wage earners,

if you don't count them, you're at an advantage of people who actually earn all their income.

 

For example, if person A earns a salary of £30k/yr, and gets no tax credits they wouldn't be eligible to defer.

If person B earns £25k and gets £5k of tax credits (on which they don't pay income tax or NI, so they are actually better off than a £30k/yr salary),

why should they be eligible to defer on a gross income basis?

 

Same with housing benefit and council tax benefit

- it's purpose is to top up your income so it should be counted.

 

Saying that child tax credits are to go purely towards child costs might be correct,

but it's irrelevant - you still have all your other income that could be used to repay your student loan.

[sabby1978]

Having deferred for the last five years (and my circumstances have not changed)

 

I can assure you that neither housing benefit nor child tax credits were used in the SL calculation,

 

their calculations are based on gross taxable income not gross income (there is a difference),

 

my deferment was not a mistake on their part or out of the goodness of their heart.

 

I'm not sure there is much point in debating this point much further

 

but perhaps it would be useful if you posted the original loan agreement so the experts can have a look.

 

The original agreement needs to be pre 1997.

 

Just so you all know I sent a request for a copy of my original loan agreement,

10 days in no response or even acknowledgement of my request.

 

I will keep you updated.

[Rosskie]

I doubt you'll get a responce, certainly not on time!

 

I think a statement on mumsnet was interesting and certainly applies to you Sabba

- the sale of loans should not be detrimental to the customer.

 

At least, words to that affect.

 

Seems to me if SLC weren't including the benefits, then they've set the bar. J

 

ust my uneducated opinion though.

[sabby1978]

I agree and based on the fact that DCA's cannot legally change the terms of the original agreement should be fine, if they don't comply with my request then the debt then becomes unenforceable in law, so here's hoping. This would not happened if they had not acted so unscrupulously and not tried to con money out of working low income families

[WarrenBuffet]

I would be interested in billys T&C's and i will post a pdf of a clear copy that Link (DCA) sent me due to the originals being unreadable. We can then compare to see if there is any difference and the DCA's are indeed doctoring the t&c documents? This would then open up a whole new can of worms !?

[aberwales2013]

sabby1978

 

hiya i posted on mumsnet about benefits being taken into account.

 

i have my local MP onto this and

 

i found one of the help sheets you used to get with the defferal forms.

 

it clearly states you must state what state benefits you receive but these are not counted in your gross income.

listed are Housing benefit,tax credits , child benefit and others.

 

will be a few weeks before hear anything back but im fighting this and glad others are too.

[WarrenBuffet]

I knew i was right!

[aberwales2013]

im just glad i had one of the old letters still. hopefully it will help fight our corner. i thought id maybe got it wrong about old forms as my situation changed alot in the past two years. if i knew how to post a pdf to this i would.

[WarrenBuffet]

There is legislation i believe that states that benefits cannot be used to pay creditors/3rd party debtors

 

i can't for the life of me remember exzactly what it is but i do remember reading it at some point in the past.

[dx100uk]

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx