Accused of Gross Misconduct

[kennythecelt]

Emmzi, the " manager" who has accused me of this did not see anything, he has even gone through CCTV tapes, it was hearsay as someone told him the money was missing and he has automatically accused me, sorry but I want him nowhere near me

 

I thought I asked you in an earlier post if there was any CCTV footage, either when the cash collection with the sealed envelope which was passed to you or at the payment office.

 

It now seems that CCTV footage has been examined given your post I have quoted.

 

What CCTV coverage was investigated and by whom?

 

That becomes part of the investigation and you will have a right to see it.

[kennythecelt]

Initials relating to a company and the name of an employee of that company have been mentioned in this thread.

 

I strongly advice they are deleted as this can lead to identification as employers can access consumer/ social media sites and identify cases and individuals. That does not help.

 

I suggest you contact a member of the site team who can delete these details.

[snowdragon]

kenny, I can not see them, meeting cancelled, if admin are here please close this and sorry for any problems caused,

[kennythecelt]

Can you please confirm that the investigation against you has stopped, that you have returned to work from suspension (with no mark on your employment records) and that you no longer need assistance, please.

 

I will then contact admin for you, no problem. But we just want to make sure you are OK, please, as it is not clear from your last post.

[snowdragon]

no it is still going ahead but the area manager is off sick and the person who is going to stand up for me is not available today

[renegadeimp]

AFAIK they can only suspend it for up to 5 days. it MIGHT be a little more if the investigating manager is seriously ill. Although they cant keep extending it past a reasonable timeframe, as it would be unfair.

[kennythecelt]

Are you absolutely certain you no longer require assistance?

 

I would suggest that some of the site team and others are perfectly qualified to help and I can confirm that their assistance has been invaluable over the years, resolving situations such as yours. They have helped people get through situations like this and keep their jobs. They have helped lessen the stress on someone.

 

If the meeting is just cancelled because the area manager is sick, you are still going to need help and assistance. If anything, it is clear that such an accusation is very distressing and hurtful. To be in that situation is not pleasant and is stressful and you need support. You don't need to handle it on your own.

 

Everything would need to be in the same thread anyway, as there would be no point in starting a new thread. That way, information can be lost and the site team then have to tidy up and merge threads at a later date.

 

I can see you coming back here soon with further posts. I know that from experience.

 

Have they given you anything in writing yet and what was the date? If so, please detail it, and do not include any personal details or the name of the company nor other employees etc.

 

.

Edited January 23, 2014 by kennythecelt
last sentence added

[snowdragon]

I have had nothing, no letter, no warnings etc, just a phone call saying it is being help same time tomorrow, that is if my boss is better. I feel like every one is pointing fingers at me, with thief on them, I have not stolen anything, I sealed the envelope with tape and that is how I handed it as

[kennythecelt]

They have obligations to meet legally and perhaps within their own disciplinary procedures.

 

EDIT: I just re read your post. The invite to the investigatory hearing should have been in writing and have outlined the reasons.

 

You must be given time to prepare for the hearing and tomorrow is not adequate notice. I do not think it is reasonable check here

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4227#FAQ7

 

and

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4227#FAQ7

 

How do I investigate an allegation?

 

Ideally, the person conducting the investigation should have no connection with the allegation, so they can find out the facts in a fair and reasonable manner.

 

But finding a person who is unconnected is not always possible in a small business. However, whoever carries out the investigation must do so with an open mind.

 

That entails talking to all the parties involved and producing written evidence, and being willing to look for evidence supporting the employee and against them.

 

People involved should be asked not to discuss the allegation - or look for corroborating evidence or verification of what the employee and other staff are saying.

 

And remember to keep an open mind, as what you uncover may not be what you expected. For example, someone's performance may have deteriorated because of a family bereavement they haven't told anyone at work about.

 

Also, at this stage the employee does not have a right to be accompanied. For more on investigation go to page 17 of http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/s/o/Acas-Guide-on-discipline-and-grievances_at_work_(April_11)-accessible-version-may-2012.pdf

 

Although the ACAS guidance says there is no right to have a rep at an investigatory hearing, there may be a right to be accompanied to that meeting within the companies own procedures/ policies. You need to check if you have this right with your colleague who is the Union rep.

Edited January 23, 2014 by kennythecelt
add info

[kennythecelt]

I have had nothing, no letter, no warnings etc, just a phone call saying it is being help same time tomorrow, that is if my boss is better. I feel like every one is pointing fingers at me, with thief on them, I have not stolen anything, I sealed the envelope with tape and that is how I handed it as

 

Please answer the following points, one by one in a list ie a new line for each answer. This makes it far easier for everyone to be clear on what is happening. So, please don't use one paragraph and not answer any questions.

 

 

Who phoned you? (not a name, just their position within the company)

 

Exactly what time today did they phone you?

 

Exactly what time is the meeting tomorrow?

 

What exactly did they say?

 

Did they say it was an investigatory hearing? Or something else? If so, what?

 

Did they give the reasons for the meeting? If so, what?

 

Did you agree to the meeting?

 

Can you contact your colleague in the union? That is important! Have you got a mobile or home number for him or has a close friend at work?

 

You must not under any circumstances be seen to be contacting employees AT ALL and this needs to be done very discreetly. So, it is only with someone you trust with your life. If unsure, don't do it.

[DRFC001]

1. as pointed out b4 cannot be investigation or disciplinary - one or the other\

2. he can hold the investigation and disciplinary if the company only have very few staff. If there are multiple managers then this shouldnt happen and a tribunal would take this into account, if you were sacked and went for unfair dismissal.

3. unless i've read wrong you handed the money to the manager and then he counted it out - not in your presence, or with any other witnesses. If so it's your word v his and dodgy ground for gross misconduct. if that's the case let em, appeal the decision and then goto tribunal. If there are witnesses and they all state the same that the money was missing then balance of probability is they can discipline you, but i'd still think gross misconduct is a step to far, as a first issue. If they do carry out their threat then a tribunal would want to see that the company acted fairly along each and every stage.

4. I'd get some customers to act in your defence and also other staff. Write a letter in the strongest words possible (no swearing) to the MD and if you're 100% innocent then launch a grievance against manager. Disciplinary would need to halt and grievance dealt with before disciplinary could resume. obviously, you will be creating enemies so you need to ensure 100% correct procedure and have the money counted in your presence or with a colleague you can trust.

hope this helps

[renegadeimp]

Woah there. A grievance wouldnt stop the disciplinary. It would simply be held by another manager and decided on its own merits. lets not get the OP to do something different when he should be concentrating on mitigation or defence in the disciplinary. Unless there was talk of a grievance before the Disciplinary, it would simply look like an attempt to delay the disciplinary for whatever reason.

 

Also, regarding ACAS, they are guidelines nor statutory regs. Thats why they say 'SHOULD' and 'IDEALLY'.

[Emmzzi]

3. unless i've read wrong you handed the money to the manager and then he counted it out - not in your presence, or with any other witnesses.

 

My reading is that it was counted by the cashroom staff who then told the manager. So the manager was not involved in the process.

 

I agree with renegadeimp; a grievance would be foolhardy and counter productive.

[caro]

Hi bobcat. So sorry to hear about this. I know how thrilled you were to get a job.

 

Do you know what the process is when the envelopes are opened? Is it done by 2 people and was the proper process followed?

 

I suggest that you ask for assurance on this.

[snowdragon]

hi, this is Bobcat's o/h he has just informed me he has been dismissed, I have no more details till he gets home

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm very sorry to hear that. We're here when you want to talk about this.

 

HB

[snowdragon]

they " found" the missing money but dismissed him on the spot as they say he took some cigarettes from the bond room and did not tell his supervisor eh was delivering them, there was no one to tell as is per normal, he was just doing it as he thought the customer needed them, they would not listen to him at all

[renegadeimp]

Time to get an appeal in. Looks like they knew they couldnt get him for the first thing so flipped it to something totally different.

[snowdragon]

he was not even told if he is to get the money owed to him, IE, wages, holiday pay, overtime, the person who stood up for him really tried but the main boss who employed him apprantley is in so much pain he just went with what ever was being said, Pete is worried now he will never get another job

[snowdragon]

he said he was dismissed on grounds of aledged theft

[renegadeimp]

He should get something in writing soon, and he is also allowed to appeal.

[snowdragon]

thanks renegadeimp

he was not told much re his money etc his main concern is getting another job as this may go against him

[renegadeimp]

They cant refuse to pay what he is legally owed. However, youd need to work that out and wait for the employers written confirmation of dismissal.

[snowdragon]

he is owed 120 hours holiday pay, one weeks wages and 20 hours overtime which has been owed for ages, he has never had a contract so no idea how long the letter will take, anyone know what the chances are of anyone employing him after this?

[Emmzzi]

oh, plenty chance, lots of people have warnings and still manage to work!

 

Agency is the best route in, get him registered.