eBay - Defrauded by Buyer - eBay take the buyers side.

[haggis1984]

Hi,

 

I operate a shop on eBay (pretty much my sole means on income). I recently sold an item. Buyer complained that item was not as described and opened a case in resolution centre. I agreed that the item could be returned for a full refund (buyer has acknowledged that the information in the listing described the item accurately but that isn't the main issue ATM).

 

Buyer then has to enter tracking details for the returned parcel. They buyer enters 'returned in person to seller address.'

 

This categorically did not happen. The buyer actually lives nearly 200 miles away.

 

When I called Ebay customer services they advised me to speak to a different department and have the case 'escalated' I Was told that as the buyer had not entered valid tracking information for the return that the case would be decided in my favour.

 

So I spoke to the relevant department. They decided the case in the buyers favour. I called eBay customer services again. This time I was told that since I can't prove that the buyer didn't return the item the buyer's payment would be refunded.

 

So now I am stuck with a breach of policy report (arising from losing the resolution centre case), the buyers negative feedback and will most likely be out of pocket for the cost of the item without even having it returned to me.

 

I have spoken to the police who put me through to 'Action Fraud.' They stated that although they have many reports of this exact issue their policy is that it is a civil matter.

 

I'm open to any suggestions to get this resolved!

[wiseajak]

Sadly this is very common with eBay, they always side with the buyer.

 

I cant understand how eBay can side with the buyer when they entered incorrect tracking info.

 

And for them to say you cant prove the didn't is beyond a joke and i can understand your anger as this has happened to me.

 

If the buyer has obviously defrauded you the police should take notice and give u a crime number.

 

Sadly i dont think there is much you can do, as if you dont refund them they will just take it from your account. I didn't let them do this ( cancelled my card) but as its your income source you may just have to refund it.

 

Its a joke eBay dont care and their customer service is laughable and not worth it as they ignore seller concerns and side with the buyer even when the seller is in the right.

Phoning and emailing them is a waste of time as there emails are templates and talking to them is no good, u may as well phone your wall.

[linkyyork]

I am afraid that the way ebay is now carrying on is creating a frauds charter.

A seller with 100% feedback sold an item but then realised he had put the wrong photo in his listing.

Same model - but different livery.

He contacted the buyer and told him to return the item if he was unhappy for a full refund including return P&P.

The buyer refused to return the item without a refund first.

The outcome was ebay refunded both the buyer and seller so no one lost out.

The buyer however gained a free item.

Ebay also makes sellers refund buyers for lost item before the time a carrier considers them lost.

[haggis1984]

The guy has just messaged me to state that he has sold the item on for a profit. Despite previously telling eBay that he had returned the item in an attempt to gain a refund.

[citizenB]

The guy has just messaged me to state that he has sold the item on for a profit. Despite previously telling eBay that he had returned the item in an attempt to gain a refund.

 

Can you not copy that message to Ebay ?

 

Or, if you have his address, perhaps you could use the message as proof in a small claims, claim ?

[haggis1984]

Thanks Citizen. Yes I have copied the message to eBay. I'd be very grateful for some pointers on putting together an LBA.

[citizenB]

Thanks Citizen. Yes I have copied the message to eBay. I'd be very grateful for some pointers on putting together an LBA.

 

I will ask someone to look in on your thread.

[linkyyork]

The guy has just messaged me to state that he has sold the item on for a profit. Despite previously telling eBay that he had returned the item in an attempt to gain a refund.

 

Surely his message puts him on the wrong side of law as he appears to have committed fraud.

Perhaps the police should be asked to look at it again.

[citizenB]

Have Ebay responded to this latest information ?

[haggis1984]

Hi,

 

I contacted Action Fraud again today. Since the buyer has now stated that he did not return the item (contradicting his statement to eBay that he had returned the item in person) they have taken a report and issue a crime reference number. They said someone will be in touch if they need any further info - I'm not sure what will happen next.

 

I've also passed the crime reference number to eBay together with a copy of the buyer's most recent message. No response from them as yet.

 

He's left feedback questioning the authenticity of the item and sales have completely dried up since. So really need to get this sorted ASAP.

[ericsbrother]

You have the person's address and kept copies of all messages so if you get no joy from ebay or actionfraud (I doubt it that you will) you can sue him in the county court. You probably wot get much in the way of a response but he will have his credit rating trashed and you can have the joy of knowing that the bailiffs can visit him when he doesnt cough up. This will cost you money but do the claim online and you keep it to a minimum. Name Ebay as joint defendants if you wish, just use their registered address for the service of documents.

All in all it will mean spending another £50-120 but you can get some mileage out of it at the end by writing to his local paper and giving them notice of the hearing and they can make use of the public access as they see fit.

[haggis1984]

Yes I have copies of all correspondence and the buyer's full name and address. It's looking like small claims is going to be the best way forward I think. Hopefully someone will look in soon with some pointers for the LBA.

[citizenB]

Yes, sorry about this.. Will try and find some advice for you

[citizenB]

I think it will be fairly straightforward.

 

You have the purchaser's name and address.

 

You should head your letter..

 

"Letter Before Action" and it should be sent via Recorded or Special Delivery mailing (you will need to retain the receipt and print off the signature from the RM web site and retain that as well (for your "bundle")

 

Something along the lines of....

 

Dear NAME

 

Ref : Purchase of ITEM on DATE

 

Letter Before Action

 

On DATE you purchased via the Ebay auction site ITEM.

 

On DATE you received a refund for the item claiming that it had been returned. You entered a false tracking reference into the Ebay system in order to make Ebay and me believe it was being returned.

 

On DATE, you advised me by text that you had in fact resold this item, on Ebay.

 

You had no right to retain this item once a refund had been given and certainly had no right to resell it. I am now requesting that you repay the following

 

Purchase price of Item - £ XXX

Cost of postage. - £ XXX

 

If I have not received the above through my PayPal account within (10 - 14 days - But put a proper date), then it is my intention to issue a claim against you in the county court.

 

Yours etc,

 

I have left a message for Site team members to look in as well, so perhaps wait until later this evening, as most of them have day jobs

[steampowered]

Great letter. If it was me, I would add the following:

 

"On being awarded a refund, ownership of the goods reverted to me. By reselling the goods without my permission, despite receiving a full refund, you committed the civil wrong of conversion and are liable for the full cost of the goods plus any profit made from the resale.

 

In addition, claiming that the goods were returned to my address in person in order to obtain a refund was fraudulent. As you will no doubt be aware, fraud is a criminal offence as well as a civil wrong. I do not consider I would have any difficulty in proving fraud given that your address is more than 200 miles away from mine. I am considering whether to make a formal police report.

 

Despite the above, I will not take any further action if you pay the original purchase price of £ ... (including postage) within 14 days.

 

If I do not hear from you within 14 days, I will commence proceedings against you in the County Court. My claim would be for the price of the goods, any profit you made on the resale, interest and court costs. I would enforce any unpaid court order in the usual way, including the use of county court bailiffs."

[citizenB]

Thank you steampowered.. much more streamlined and forceful

[haggis1984]

Thanks guys!

 

Can I add anything into that LBA regarding having his negative feedback removed?

[citizenB]

I really have no idea about that, I guess you could slip it in.. after all, it is like having a credit file trashed really isn't it.. one bad mark can destroy all the good ones.

[haggis1984]

Just discovered something interesting about this guy.

He is trading on eBay under a company name - and has a few selling items active. The company name he is using - and the registration number displayed on his listings - relate to a company that is registered as dissolved according to companycheck.co.uk.

 

Does the fact that he purchased the item from me using his business account and had the item delivered to his business address change things? I'm wondering if this means that he purchased the item as a business? And since that business is dissolved does that make the fraud more serious?

[haggis1984]

Just had a typically useful email from a manager at eBay customer support:

 

'Crime reference numbers are not something we can accept.'

 

Well then.

[steampowered]

Thanks guys!

 

Can I add anything into that LBA regarding having his negative feedback removed?

 

You can certainly request this as a condition of accepting payment instead of starting a court case to claim the profit.

 

This is not an issue to threaten litigation over though. I don't think you should threaten a defamation claim unless you intend to follow through, defamation claims generally must be started in the High Court in London and cannot be dealt with in small claims.

[haggis1984]

Thanks Steampowered

 

Do you have any thoughts on the info I provided in posts 19 and 20?

 

Just discovered something interesting about this guy.

He is trading on ebay under a company name - and has a few selling items active. The company name he is using - and the registration number displayed on his listings - relate to a company that is registered as dissolved according to companycheck.co.uk.

 

Does the fact that he purchased the item from me using his business account and had the item delivered to his business address change things? I'm wondering if this means that he purchased the item as a business? And since that business is dissolved does that make the fraud more serious?

 

Just had a typically useful email from a manager at ebay customer support:

 

'Crime reference numbers are not something we can accept.'

 

Well then.

[steampowered]

If the company no longer exists, that would avoid any argument about whether the individual is personally liable or whether only the company is liable. But you can 'pierce the corporate veil' and pursue the individual responsible in cases of fraud anyway. I don't think it matters whether he was dealing as a business or an individual, fraud is fraud whichever way you slice it.

 

I'm not sure what to make of eBay's response. It sounds like they either do not have the resources to investigate this or they just aren't interested.

[haggis1984]

Some good news, I got my money back

 

Bad news is I still have the breach of eBay policy violation on my account and the neg feedback. I have exhausted eBay's appeals policy now too.

[ericsbrother]

If it really bothers you to have the breach notice and neg you can swear an affidavit in front of a solicitor that your reputaion has been damaged by ebay's actions and they will often remove it as that is seena s a precursor to legal action where they are named as a co-respondent. All costs money though so is the red dot that much of a problem? Better off leaving a comment in response to the dot and moving on to other things.