Sold £400 item on Ebay - Buyer said 'Not As Described' - Ebay Refunded - But No Sign Of Return - Scammer?

[Glovepuppet]

Hello 

I have been sent over here by a colleague who has recommended this forum for some advice.

I am new to this so bare with me while I try to explain my issue with ebay.

My brother, my sister and myself inherited some items from my late mother when she passed away. We split the items up and decided to sell some of them and split the money between us.

One item were her rather expensive hearing aids from a Swiss manufacturer called Sonova. They were very expensive to buy and my brother said it would be a shame to throw them away considering how much they cost. He suggested selling them on ebay and then split the money.

We had a look and hearing aids are being sold on ebay so no issues there we thought.

They were tested, working and had all the accessories including charger, storage boxes and so on.

We listed them and eventually sold them for just over £400

So far so good.

We shipped them insured and tracked with FedEx, buyer received them end of January.

Two weeks later he left positive feedback saying they are a great product and wonderful seller. 

At that point we split the money between us and forgot all about it, until today (29 days after buyer received them and a day apparently before ebay's return window closes) he opened a return case , simply stating 'not as described - please refund' and that was it.

The only options ebay provides us with is to accept the return and pay to have them back or send the buyer a message.

We sent him a message asking why he thought they were not as described and asked him to upload relevant evidence for this claim.

He didn't provide any photos or evidence and just said they were described as Phonak Sonova hearing aids, which he says was misleading. He wanted Phonak ones.

We pointed out that Phonak and Sonova were the same company. A bit like rejecting a Ford Fiesta, because you wanted a Ford and not a Fiesta.

He insisted and said his audiologist had already played around with them and he now preferred to have Phonak hearing aids and we said they were Sonova.

I uploaded numerous paperwork items to show that Sonova and Phonak were the same. Phonak changed their name to Sonova some time ago but still sells their hearing aids under a number of brand names such as Phonak, Unitron, Hansaton and some others. they were exactly as described, they are not faulty or anything, yet ebay tries to force us to take them back, despite them having been altered / played around with by an audiologist and used by the buyer for almost four weeks.

It appears like buyer remorse and nothing that should be covered under ebays money back guarantee.

I have asked the buyer now to upload his evidence to show in what way they are not as described but had no response.

We expect him to escalate the matter to ebay in two days when the time frame for a response is up and ebay will most likely automatically close the case and find in his favour. They will either refund him and tell him to keep the hearing aids and then try to recover the money from us or charge us for a return label and tell him to send them back to us and then expect us to refund him although we have not accepted the return really.

My brother is quite adamant that ebay will not see any money from us if they refund the buyer under these circumstances.

 I am quite angry really as this case does not fulfill the criteria for a 'not as described' return, but ebay will no doubt just force it through through their automated robots.

If we do not reimburse ebay under these circumstances, is this something we can challenge or defend if ebay then takes recovery action against us ?

Any ideas or answers would be appreciated

[BankFodder]

The easiest thing will be to proceed against the purchaser.

Presumably you have their name and address.
I would begin by searching the land registry web check service to see whether that person is the owner of the property so that you know they have a permanent address and also assets.
I think I would then bide my time and see what the eBay decision is.

You could proceed against eBay but that will be much more difficult and also you could risk your eBay account because they don't take this kind of thing very nobly.

If you are obliged to refund the money to eBay – then I think the best thing to do is to do it with apparent goodwill and then attack the purchaser for breach of contract.
If you don't get the hearing aids back then not only would you challenge for the money but would also challenge for the cost of the hearing aids.

On the basis of what you say, your chances of success are better than 95% check the address straightaway.

If you find that they don't own the property that it might be a bit more difficult. Let us know

[dx100uk]

or just ignore ebay if they do refund.

ebay dont do court anyway.

so just ensure that the a/c that the item was sold thru has NO funding source like a debit/credit or a bank A/C listed.

not a thing ebay can do.

its part of their business model.

 

[Glovepuppet]

Thank you for the prompt responses !!!

The aids were sent to the buyer c/o a company address, he had them sent to his employer or he bought them for the business. It's a company called Trent Nursing Ltd in Gainsborough. 

First at all I thought it's an Old people's home, but it's not.

It's a company that provides all sorts of Healthcare services. (Healthcare agency staff and so on) 

He either works for them or bought these for the business to maybe supply to a client for a fee  - who knows.

[BankFodder]

In that case, I think you had better wait to see what happens and maybe you will have to go against eBay if they manage to take your money

[Glovepuppet]

I quickly went into the ebay account and deleted my paypal account as well as my debit and credit card from the funding sources as suggested above.

That was a very valid suggestion, otherwise they can just try and charge these cards to recoup the money.

So that's done.

Buyer has not responded anymore after I asked him to upload evidence to show how the item is not as described, so I suspect he will wait it out and then escalate to ebay once the three days are up. Then we will see what happens next

[BankFodder]

I would suggest that you telephone eBay. Have a very calm and polite and friendly conversation with the call handler. I have found that they are very receptive and I have a sense that the person who gets in their first and explains their situation in a very friendly and relaxed way can gain an advantage.

Nothing to be lost

We have a sense that we have helped you in the past with different issues – and that you tend not to update your threads and to let us know the outcome.

I hope you will let us know the outcome here and it would be very helpful if you would visit your other threads and update them as well so that other people who join this community can benefit not only from your experience but also from the advice that we give.

Thank you

[jk2054]

Might just be me here, but I think that care of address is probably the audiologist's base?

 

as dx said ebay don't do court. 

 

You will struggle to go against ebay, but if you do win and need HCE to enforce then first send them to registered, then send them to stonefield, as ebay has assets in stonefield that can be siezed.

Edited February 27 by jk2054

[Glovepuppet]

There is no news at the moment.

I spoke to two different ebay customer service reps, but the conversation was a bit rigid, I got the feeling they were reading of scripts or following scripts.

They kept saying ebay doesn't take sides and believe both sides.

I pointed out that in this case only one party can be right, we can't possibly both be correct and I uploaded evidence to support my side of the story, whilst the buyer did not follow ebay rules and didn't provide any evidence to support his statement that the item is not as described.

At that point the conversation went back to assuring me ebay believes both members and doesn't take sides. However, if the buyer escalates the case to ebay after 72 hours they will make a decision based on the information available.

They recommended I provide the buyer with a returns label and then refund when i get the item back. Because if I don't , ebay may provide the buyer with a label and charge me for it. Or they may tell him to keep the item and I have to refund anyway. 

I was just not getting anywhere with it. The conversation was just going around in circles.

The buyer also has not responded anymore when I asked him to provide evidence for his statement that the item isn't as described. I assume he will let it time out and escalate to ebay tomorrow , expecting then an automated refund, which I suspect he will get.

I have now removed all funding sources from my ebay account (credit and debit card  and paypal account) . I checked my bank account later and to my horror noticed ebay had a direct debit set up against it. It appears it was never used, but was active. I cancelled that.

If ebay now wants to refund the buyer, they can do that, I can't see any immediate option for them to then get that money back from me as I believe I have removed all those funding sources which would have allowed them to do that.

Tomorrow the three days are up and the buyer will no doubt escalate, so I will see what happens tomorrow

I think it will just be about the £400 which ebay will no doubt refund the buyer, because I won't .

Going by what has been said here in the thread they may not pursue me for it.

In the overall scheme of things £400 is nothing to ebay and as was said earlier, these losses are part of their business model.

I have removed all funding sources from my ebay account,  I can't see how they would be able to recover the money from me, unless they instruct debt collectors, but also not sure if that is something they do ?

[dx100uk]

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

and have

ZERO legal powers on any debt  - no matter what it's type.

dx

[Glovepuppet]

True enough ! 

I let you know what happens tomorrow, but I believe the buyer will escalate this matter and ebay will then automatically find in his favour and either

send him a label to return the goods to me and try to charge me for the label and then asking me to refund the buyer when I get the goods back

or 

refund him and tell him to keep the goods, then asking me to re-emburse them

I'll find out tomorrow and post here which way it has gone

[jk2054]

ebay dont do DCA

[Glovepuppet]

That's sounds good to me

No news today, I think the returns case times out tomorrow or at midnight tonight. It says I have until today to come to a resolution with the buyer. After that the matter can be escalated.

So could be that it's midnight tonight.

But no news at the moment

[Glovepuppet]

As expected the buyer passed the case to ebay which managed to review the case and come to a conclusion within 10 minutes - I got the e-mail that the buyer escalated the case at 23.30 last night and their decision e-mail came through at 23.40, so clearly an automated process where nobody actually looked at anything I provided.

But I knew that anyway, they say they will give the buyer a return label at my expense and I have to refund the item upon receipt.

I will do no such thing and as far as I am concerned I am happy to let the buyer collect his property or re-send it back to him as he flaunted ebays return rules and ebay just has an automated process with nobody actually looking at anything.

I keep you posted what happens next

They have now put my ebay account in a minus balance for the purchase amount and the outgoing shipping costs. They will add the returns label to that once the buyer uses it I believe

 

[dx100uk]

[Glovepuppet]

Ebay has closed the return, as the guy never sent them back. 

So not sure if anything else will come of this now. 

[dx100uk]

thread title updated.

nothing much ebay can do now, ignore them.

dx

[Glovepuppet]

Thank you