NCO Europe solicitor and an old orange debt

[Kikita]

When providing a DCA with an I/E form,

what sort of stuff is considered reasonable or necessary?

 

As I'm currently on JSA but live with parents so I'm not a main bill payer for the main stuff,

but I do pay my parents weekly with what I can afford and I pay for a lot of stuff for myself, food etc and hardly seem to have much left over.

 

The balance of the debt is £250 and I've proposed £1 or £2 a month until my circumstances change

but my I/E form seems to suggest I have lots of money left over when it's not the case in reality.

 

And how much of your disposable income do they expect you to pay creditors with? not all of it surely? how about emergencies etc?

 

just don't want to paint the wrong picture to the DCA and them thinking I can afford more than £1 or £2 when i would struggle to do so when it came down to it.

 

Cheers

[citizenB]

You might want to have a word with National Debtline, as they will be able to advise exactly what you can and cant claim for. Usually you would be looking to pay all priority spending such as

 

mortgage/ rent

utilities - water - electricitiy - gas

telephone

Council Tax

food

Household cleaning stuff

laundry

travel

vehicle/petrol

 

 

I have attached a budget sheet below for you, but feel you might be better off having Nat Debt help you produce a Common Financial Statement (budget sheet)

 

Ellens Budget Sheet.xls

[Kikita]

Thank you. When you say 'telephone' I don't pay for the land-line, but could I put my mobile phone expenditure? Also something I didn't see in your post, how about Internet? Needed for job applications and stuff.

 

Shower Gel, Toothpaste, Mouthwash etc - things I all pay for and if I didn't I wouldn't have them.... so it's essential but doesn't look it when compared to most of the stuff you listed.

[dx100uk]

dca's have no legal right at all to see your pers financial information

 

only a judge can demand that.

 

whats the debt all about?

 

dx

[citizenB]

Thank you. When you say 'telephone' I don't pay for the land-line, but could I put my mobile phone expenditure? Also something I didn't see in your post, how about Internet? Needed for job applications and stuff.

 

Shower Gel, Toothpaste, Mouthwash etc - things I all pay for and if I didn't I wouldn't have them.... so it's essential but doesn't look it when compared to most of the stuff you listed.

 

Internet/phone yes.. essential

So is personal hygiene so you would put down a small allowance for those items

 

Things they might not be keen to see on an I&E would be....

 

A huge sum for "entertainment/holidays"

Designer clothes ? You are allowed to put an amount for clothes

You can include an amount for hairdresser/barber.

[Kikita]

Excellent, thank you.

 

The debt is for a mobile phone contract which I am liable for and have no qualms about the amount, I was just foolish and adopted the "ignore and hope it goes away" mentality which is stupid I know.

 

I know DCAs have no legal right to the info only a judge, but it has got quite far now and have had a letter before court action through my door and I would prefer to give them the info, rather than risk a CCJ if I can help it.

 

I also have other creditors but I am ok with them as I negotiated a £1 p/m plan at least until my circumstances change.

 

Do DCAs and/or a judge/court expect that 100% of a persons total disposable income should go towards a creditor?

 

e.g If I'm offering £1 p/m and my I&E sheet shows that I have £20 'disposable income' (which is never the case on JSA) would they expect significantly more?

[citizenB]

 

Do DCAs and/or a judge/court expect that 100% of a persons total disposable

income should go towards a creditor?

 

e.g If I'm offering £1 p/m and my

I&E sheet shows that I have £20 'disposable income' (which is never the case

on JSA) would they expect significantly more?

 

Unfortunately, yes they do.. which is why it is important to ensure that all your essential expenditure is listed/ accounted for.

[Kikita]

which is why it is important to ensure that all your essential expenditure is listed/ accounted for.

 

Yes, true.

 

A concern I had was my I/E form not being solid enough and my creditor thinking if the offer is only £1 p/m we might aswell file a CCJ and try and get more in court, on the basis of my written I/E form as their evidence.

 

I gather it is not rare at all for debts with a balance of £250 to have a CCJ applied to it? What is the lowest balance you guys have seen or know of go to court?

[sequenci]

Hi there. Creditors have an obligation to give serious consideration to an offer (even one of £1 per month) providing that the figures listed within your budget sheet are fair and reasonable. The industry has 'trigger figures' (sometimes referred to as the common financial statement figures), as so long as your figures fall within the scope of being reasonable you should be OK. The OFT guidelines reinforces this approach.

 

You can find a CFS compliant budget here: http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/debt_advice.php#5

 

Some creditors do go for judgments for debts as low as £250 although I don't come across it *that* often, and also if you're trying to negotiate reasonable payments you could argue it's unfair for the creditor to take further action.

[citizenB]

Sequenci, is "Ellen's budget sheet" not CFS compliant ? attached in post # 2

[sequenci]

It's good, but it's not. Although I can't see a creditor not liking it (it's in the same format as an earlier version)

[Kikita]

Hi there. Creditors have an obligation to give serious consideration to an offer (even one of £1 per month) providing that the figures listed within your budget sheet are fair and reasonable. The industry has 'trigger figures' (sometimes referred to as the common financial statement figures), as so long as your figures fall within the scope of being reasonable you should be OK. The OFT guidelines reinforces this approach.

 

Some creditors do go for judgments for debts as low as £250 although I don't come across it *that* often, and also if you're trying to negotiate reasonable payments you could argue it's unfair for the creditor to take further action.

 

Thanks.

 

Unfortunately for me it's at an advanced stage now and I'm not sure it falls directly under the jurisdiction of a creditor? Does that change things at all? Originally an Orange Debt, then Moorcroft had it, then NCO Europe and now it's in the hands of a solicitors who I presume are acting on behalf of NCO Europe.

 

They can't have bought a £250 debt for much though?

[sequenci]

They wouldn't have done - but regardless as to whoever has taken over the debt you would treat them in the same way as the original. They also have to adhere to the same rules - as such £1/month would be the offer to make!

[fkofilee]

If all you can afford is £1 per month, then £1 per month it is... If you could only afford £20 a month then thats all you can afford.

DCAs have no right to see I+E and if they request it then you can tell them where to go...

 

Im getting sick and tired of hearing DCAs go "We can help you but we need to know everything about you"

 

They have no right to know if you work.... They have no right to know what your total amount of money going in and out is,

They have no right to hassle you and have no right to make obscene requests if it is not viable for the debtor.

 

Please dont let them cash cow you... Who are the company chasing and who are the original suppliers for the MPD (Mobile phone debt)?

[Ell-enn]

It's good, but it's not. Although I can't see a creditor not liking it (it's in the same format as an earlier version)

 

I've certainly had no reports from courts to say that it'snot acceptable

[Wintry]

When providing a DCA with an I/E form,

what sort of stuff is considered reasonable or necessary?

 

As I'm currently on JSA but live with parents so I'm not a main bill payer for the main stuff,

but I do pay my parents weekly with what I can afford and I pay for a lot of stuff for myself, food etc and hardly seem to have much left over.

 

The balance of the debt is £250 and I've proposed £1 or £2 a month until my circumstances change

but my I/E form seems to suggest I have lots of money left over when it's not the case in reality.

 

And how much of your disposable income do they expect you to pay creditors with? not all of it surely? how about emergencies etc?

 

just don't want to paint the wrong picture to the DCA and them thinking I can afford more than £1 or £2 when i would struggle to do so when it came down to it.

 

Cheers

 

Hi

 

Are you in receipt of Income Based Job Seekers Allowance ?

 

If so then you wont have any disposable income based on the CFS, in fact it is unlikely that the CFS allowances will make much sense with Income Based Job Seekers Allowance. It would be a minus Financial Statement if the CFS was applied is my understanding.

 

Token offers would be the outcome based on the above income and creditors should be aware of this, they see it on a regular basis.

 

If you are in receipt of Contribution Based Job Seekers Allowance, there may be other income, so it may be different.

 

Maybe check out the CAB Online System, it has industry accepted expenditure allowance guideline figures

 

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/dmptour.asp

 

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/

 

Best Wishes

Edited September 14, 2013 by Wintry

[Kikita]

If all you can afford is £1 per month, then £1 per month it is... If you could only afford £20 a month then thats all you can afford.

DCAs have no right to see I+E and if they request it then you can tell them where to go...

 

Im getting sick and tired of hearing DCAs go "We can help you but we need to know everything about you"

 

They have no right to know if you work.... They have no right to know what your total amount of money going in and out is,

They have no right to hassle you and have no right to make obscene requests if it is not viable for the debtor.

 

Please dont let them cash cow you... Who are the company chasing and who are the original suppliers for the MPD (Mobile phone debt)?

 

Yes, but but what is the alternative? If I just said "All I can afford is £1 p/m" and gave no further information, they would more than likely just apply a CCJ against me, right? They would have nothing to lose.

 

Like I said it's at an advanced stage and I've had two letters recently. First one letter before action....then a letter before court action so I kind of have to. I'd rather give it to them than go through a CCJ.

 

Original Mobile Phone Debt = Orange. Then it was Moorcroft, then NCO Europe, now It's in the hands of a solicitors who I presume are acting on behalf of NCO Europe

 

Hi

 

Are you in receipt of Income Based Job Seekers Allowance ?

 

If so then you wont have any disposable income based on the CFS, in fact it is unlikely that the CFS allowances will make much sense with Income Based Job Seekers Allowance. It would be a minus Financial Statement if the CFS was applied is my understanding.

 

Token offers would be the outcome based on the above income and creditors should be aware of this, they see it on a regular basis.

 

If you are in receipt of Contribution Based Job Seekers Allowance, there may be other income, so it may be different.

 

Hi, yes it's Income Based JSA that I receive. £56.80 per week I believe.

 

I live with parents though and I'm not legally responsible for any rent/mortage or council tax, or electricity/gas/water or stuff like that which is the important stuff (although I try and help out even with limited income on benefits)

 

For all a DCA knows I could be receiving JSA and hardly pay anything out, but that is not the case.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Kikita

[sequenci]

 

If so then you wont have any disposable income based on the CFS, in fact it is unlikely that the CFS allowances will make much sense with Income Based Job Seekers Allowance. It would be a minus Financial Statement if the CFS was applied is my understanding.

 

It certainly would if the maximum figures were applied, that's for sure.

[Wintry]

Yes, but but what is the alternative? If I just said "All I can afford is £1 p/m" and gave no further information, they would more than likely just apply a CCJ against me, right? They would have nothing to lose.

 

Like I said it's at an advanced stage and I've had two letters recently. First one letter before action....then a letter before court action so I kind of have to. I'd rather give it to them than go through a CCJ.

 

Original Mobile Phone Debt = Orange. Then it was Moorcroft, then NCO Europe, now It's in the hands of a solicitors who I presume are acting on behalf of NCO Europe

 

 

 

Hi, yes it's Income Based JSA that I receive. £56.80 per week I believe.

 

I live with parents though and I'm not legally responsible for any rent/mortage or council tax, or electricity/gas/water or stuff like that which is the important stuff (although I try and help out even with limited income on benefits)

 

For all a DCA knows I could be receiving JSA and hardly pay anything out, but that is not the case.

 

Hi

 

JSA for the under 25's is paid at the lower rate of £56.80 per week which equates to £246 per month.

 

Creditors and their collection agency buddies know (or should do) that Income Based JSA is the minimum amount the law says you need to live on and token offers is what usually follows and in the real world of basic maths that this ought to be accepted.

 

They should not question this really but some of them may feel the need so to speak (usually script readers talking rubbish)

 

You could put up what you spend on here and we could have a look.

 

If a calculation based on certain industry accepted trigger figures was applied, the allowance for food / housekeeping alone would basically take out all your income, then there is clothing, telephone, travel, contributions to utilities etc.

 

Expenditure allowances are there as a safety net and to help with accurate smooth running of debt advice / courts / procedures / solutions and rightly so in my opinion, without them chaos and confusion would follow along with silly, nonsense, self interest payment demands and the like.

 

My opinions

 

Best Wishes

Edited September 17, 2013 by Wintry

[Wintry]

It certainly would if the maximum figures were applied, that's for sure.

 

Hi

 

It would not even need anywhere near to the maximums in this case, unless of course we are talking about an agency that say (for reasons known only to them) recommend figures like £165 per month for housekeeping on an online debt tool)

 

On the subject of allowances, the MAS are looking at 'harmonising' the CFS & Stepchanges expenditure allowance trigger figures so I hear. I cannot understand what the fuss is about, why don't they all use the independent CFS, if so then all the 'confusion' surrounding would be ended in the stroke of a pen.

 

Some of us think we know why:)

 

Also, is it true sequenci that Stepchange get 'some sort' of payment every time someone uses their Debt Remedy Tool? I am only asking, maybe they could come on here and 'brooche' the subject!

 

The adverts seem to have started again:)

 

My 'take'

Edited September 17, 2013 by Wintry

[dx100uk]

nco and Moorcroft are a strange pairing.

 

how old is this debt

 

what were the circumstances behind it,

you disagreed about anything

coverage , contract, phone.

 

just because you've had a couple of scary letters

don't think they are going to take it further.

 

read the letter properly.

they don't say will

 

have you gotten ahold of your cra file

to see what the industry says about this debt yet.

 

my pers view is lets do a bit more digging first

before you put your neck in the noose

and certainly DONT pay a dca

 

deal with the original creditor

 

for £250 worrying about court

or starting to ack this debt by paying

will add even more time onto the period it shows on your file.

 

tell us the story

 

and get your CRA file

 

see below

 

dx

[sequenci]

Hi

 

It would not even need anywhere near to the maximums in this case, unless of course we are talking about an agency that say (for reasons known only to them) recommend figures like £165 per month for housekeeping on an online debt tool)

 

If that includes all housekeeping (e.g. clothing etc. too then that figure is an absolute joke)

 

why don't they all use the independent CFS, if so then all the 'confusion' surrounding would be ended in the stroke of a pen.

 

I absolutely agree on this.

 

Also, is it true sequenci that Stepchange get 'some sort' of payment every time someone uses their Debt Remedy Tool? I am only asking, maybe they could come on here and 'brooche' the subject!

 

No idea on that one, but nothing surprises me these days.

[Kikita]

nco and Moorcroft are a strange pairing.

 

how old is this debt

 

what were the circumstances behind it,

you disagreed about anything

coverage , contract, phone.

 

just because you've had a couple of scary letters

don't think they are going to take it further.

 

read the letter properly.

they don't say will

 

have you gotten ahold of your cra file

to see what the industry says about this debt yet.

 

my pers view is lets do a bit more digging first

before you put your neck in the noose

and certainly DONT pay a dca

 

deal with the original creditor

 

for £250 worrying about court

or starting to ack this debt by paying

will add even more time onto the period it shows on your file.

 

tell us the story

 

and get your CRA file

 

see below

 

dx

 

Summer 2011 when I started the Orange contract. It's just money I owe for the whole contract. They cut me off with about 12 months (at least) to go on the contract, and am just paying the contract off.

 

I think I was behind/owed 2 months worth of payments on the contract, before they cut me off.

 

Can't deal with Orange any more so kind of have to pay the DCA/Solicitors, right?

 

No idea what my CRA file says about it as I have already had the free trials on Equifax & Experian and can never seem to get accepted on Noddle. I tried as recently as 2 weeks ago but it said my identify couldn't be verified?

[Wintry]

If that includes all housekeeping (e.g. clothing etc. too then that figure is an absolute joke)

 

 

 

I absolutely agree on this.

 

 

 

No idea on that one, but nothing surprises me these days.

 

Hi

 

I had a look on the WA site recently and noticed that there is a fairly new E-Learning course on the CFS, think it carries CPD points for the MIMA qualified people too

 

How then can there be a different set of figures that are much lower in some areas, how can advisers give accurate advice and who's interest are some of these figures in, especially when you take into account Debt Relief Orders.

 

It is a joke and totally misleading

 

The silence just gets dafter, but everybody is starting to see through it me duck... aren't they??

 

Can't wait to see how they get round (or try to) this harmonising business!

 

It is a snooker, re - rack style

 

What about all those DMPs!

 

We are still waiting, wry smiles and all.

 

Tickety tock

 

My honest opinions based on rock solid experience

Edited September 17, 2013 by Wintry

[sequenci]

I had a look on the WA site recently and noticed that there is a fairly new E-Learning course on the CFS, think it carries CPD points for the MIMA qualified people too

 

Yup, it's brand new. Launched last month. I've not even done that one myself (just had the reminder!).

 

I wonder how many people who could really do with a DRO (and would meet the citeria based upon CFS) end up with DMPs or even (shudders) IVAs?