Issue with lost Samsung refund **RESOLVED**

[mr_stoosh]

Hello all,

I've had an ongoing dispute with Samsung since October 2023.

I bought a phone and it was defective as it didn't make calls or receive calls due to no signal and I sent it back for a refund.

Samsung received the phone and stated it will take 7-10 working days to issue a refund.

The deadline for the refund to be issued passed. I contacted my bank and commenced a chargeback.

Samsung contacted me the day after and stated they couldn't issue me a refund unless I cancelled the chargeback which I did (stupidly did on advice of the customer service agent.) I asked the customer service agent if I can reopen the chargeback if Samsung fails to provide me a refund and was told I could.

Samsung then allegedly paid the money back to the chargeback knowing I had cancelled the chargeback!

I made a complaint against my bank as the customer service advisor had given me the wrong information and it was upheld in my favour and the bank stated in the resolution letter that Samsung need to refund me as the dispute reversal advice was received by them on November 14th.

I've been chasing Samsung for months I've even written to their CEO office and they've ignored all my attempts to contact them, the last email I received from them was as far as they're concerned they've paid the refund and the matter is closed!

I've contacted CAB and they told me to write an official letter of complaint to Samsung and if I didn't hear from them then to send a letter stating that I will take court action against them if I don't hear from them. They've asked me to follow the process prior to taking Samsung to small claims court 

This seems to have worked and someone from the Escalation team has been in touch stating that they are adamant the refund has been made to me and supplied a ARN number and to supply the number to my bank.

This is where the issues begin,

my bank can't locate the refund that Samsung has allegedly paid and the ARN actually refers to the transaction that I made to pay for the phone!

Samsung now want a letter from my Bank to state they can't locate the funds but my bank doesn't want to help as they're giving me the run around

I'm at the end of my tether as this has been ongoing since October.

What are my options as I don't know what else to do.

It's causing me an untold amount of stress as the refund is a significant amount of money.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

on what date are Samsung saying the refund payment was made?

surely proof would simply be a couple of monthly statement printouts from your online banking portal?

 

 

[mr_stoosh]

Samsung are saying that the refund was made on the 13th November 2023 straight to the cancelled Chargeback. However it was sent back to them by the VISA online team on the 14th November.

It's not as simple as producing statements from my bank account, I've produced documents from my bank that I do not have the money but Samsung are adamant that they have paid the refund.

Their 14 day notice is up tomorrow then I can take them to small claims court

I'm worried that Samsung will say exactly the same thing and the Judge will throw the case out.

My bank is being unhelpful too, they indirectly put me in this position and I'm thinking of putting a new complaint in or going to the Financial Ombudsman with regards to their conduct.

[BankFodder]

How much are you talking about here?
Also, although it is probably not relevant now who was the dealer who supplied you the telephone? It is they who should have been responsible for a defective phone.

Which is your bank?

The problem here is that if Samsung really have made the refund and the error is the bank's, then you will lose your case and the money you spent on the claimant and you will then have to begin again against the bank.
It seems to me that the bank might be a clearer target for you because they have already admitted an error and so you could probably compel them to refund you and then to settle it between themselves and Samsung.

You say that you made a complaint which was upheld in your favour by the bank on the basis that the customer adviser gave you the wrong information about re-establishing a chargeback.
Please could you post up the letter that you received in PDF format.

One thing I should say is that you have sent a letter of claim to Samsung and yet clearly you weren't ready to proceed with the court action if you did not receive satisfaction from them.
One thing you must never – ever – do is to issue empty threats.
If you say that you're going to issue a legal action 14 days – then that's exactly what you do.

I don't think you are ready to issue legal action here. It's too complicated. The story is a bit of a mess – for us to understand – but anyway it's a mess anyway and we need to try and understand where you are.

 

[mr_stoosh]

Thank you for your detailed reply, it's much appreciated.

The amount is £1050 and it was bought directly from Samsung UK it's Samsung's responsibility.

I bank with Barclays and their customer services do not have a clue as to what to do. I have basically been fobbed off and told to go back to Samsung.

The back and forth between Barclays and Samsung is getting tiresome.

I actually have the intentions of carrying out a claim via the small claims and it's not an idle / empty threat.

Apologies that it actually reads like a car crash, I will try to simplify it

1. Phone bought direct from Samsung. It was defective.

2. Returned to Samsung and promised a refund within 7-10 working days.

3. Deadline for refund passed and I initiated a Chargeback via my bank on the 8th November

4. Samsung contacted me on the 9th November and stated they cannot issue a refund when a Chargeback is place.

5. I called Barclays and discussed the chargeback and asked if Samsung fail to refund me could I restart the chargeback process again? I was told unequivocally yes.

6.Complaint made to Bank which was uphold in my favour. Person looking into the complaint stated that Samsung initiated the refund through the Chargeback process however as the Chargeback was cancelled the money was returned to them on the 14th November.

7. I have presented a letter to Samsung which reiterated the above they have stated that they have made a refund through the Chargeback process and as far as they're concerned the matter is closed.

8. Numerous attempts to contact Samsung have not led anywhere. Small claims court procedure initiated on advice of the CAB 

9. January 22nd contact from the Customer Escalations Team stating that a refund was issued through the chargeback process and given a ARN number and told to contact Barclays.

10. Barclays can't find the transaction and the ARN number actually refers to the transaction where I paid for the phone.

I want to take Samsung to Court but don't want to risk the Judge throwing the case out and siding with Samsung. 

I agree it is a bit of a mess and just wanted to sound out here what my options are.

I've uploaded the complaint letter from Barclays so people reading the post get a better picture.

Barclaysedited.pdf

[BankFodder]

Please check back for a reply later on

[mr_stoosh]

Thanks ever so much

[jk2054]

Barclays are out of the question.

Go back to samsung and say the chargeback was closed and the funds were returned to samsung.

ask samsung for the right ARN given they gave the wrong one. hint if they can't provide it then you don't agree its issued.

If they won't budge then just sue them.

[mr_stoosh]

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. Will go back to Samsung now. Will keep everyone updated.

[BankFodder]

Suggest that you hang on a bit. I don't agree with the advice above and I would explain my reasons later.

I do agree that you should ask for the correct ARN but if it is not forthcoming then I think that your better option would be to go against the bank

[mr_stoosh]

I will contact them asking for a correct ARN number and not start the small claims court action against them.

I will await with interest your rationale as and when you're able to post it.

After spending over a hour on the phone to my bank they're refusing to help me any further with regards to initiating a trace of the funds and refusing to write a letter.

They have directed me to the Financial Ombudsman to make a complaint. I'm so incensed!!

[BankFodder]

Why did you contact your bank? I thought it was Samsung who would provide you with the ARN number

[mr_stoosh]

I wanted it in writing that the ARN was incorrect so I could supply it to Samsung.

Dotting the i's and crossing the T's so to speak 

Nevertheless the bank were less than helpful and stated that they do not write personalised letters and also they will be unable to trace the refund on the Chargeback as their systems do not allow it.

Was told to make an official complaint to the Financial Ombudsman and contact Samsung informing them they will need to conduct an investigation with their bank to ascertain where the money has gone!!

[BankFodder]

Send them a subject access request.

Do it today

In fact phone them up again and make the subject access request verbally on the phone.

They may refuse to accept the request but you are entitled to make a verbal request as long as you satisfy the identity requirements.

Once you have passed security questions then that is sufficient to make the subject Access request.

If they refuse then insist on speaking to a manager.

If they continue to refuse then tell them that you are making a complaint and then tell us about it here

[mr_stoosh]

Request a subject access request from the Bank of Samsung?

Pardon my ignorance but what will that achieve?

[BankFodder]

from the bank 

We can't be sure what it will achieve although it will confirm your conversation about the ARN and also it will confirm their lack of cooperation.

It's completely free so there is no downside.

They have 30 days to comply so the longer you wait, the longer it will take.

If you are really lucky then they will refuse to provide you with the subject access request against your verbal demand.

This will give you an additional head of action to sue them for if it comes down to it

[mr_stoosh]

Fair enough thanks for explaining that to me

[jk2054]

just a heads up, be careful.

If there is no proof that a refund was issued to bank by Samsung and you sue bank, you will likely get your account closed not to mention you will lose.

 

If samsung don't give proof, its samsung you need to go after, not the bank.

 

 

[mr_stoosh]

I've heard of something similar happening to another person.

I'm awaiting on Samsung's response and asking for proof. Will see what they come up with.

Thanks for the heads up!

[jk2054]

Yep, banks won't take lightly to be suing when they've done nothing wrong.

[BankFodder]

14 minutes ago, jk2054 said:

Yep, banks won't take lightly to be suing when they've done nothing wrong.

Sorry, I disagree and in fact the banks have done something wrong.

I will go through it later

[jk2054]

you can disagree but when you try it you will find out.

sue a bank and lose and tell me they don't close your account.

I'll wait.

Edited January 30 by jk2054

[dx100uk]

they cant close the account as that is retaliatory action and the authorities will eat them for breakfast as they did all those that carried out such a move during the bank charges era.

dx

 

 

[mr_stoosh]

Sorry no offence to anyone who has contributed to this thread, I'm so confused. Should I take Samsung to Small Claims Court or take action against Barclays? 

I still haven't had a response from Samsung regarding the ANR number, however I don't know how to push Barclays in carrying out checks as I was clearly told Barclays don't do such searches!

So I'm currently filling out the Small Claims Court pro forma and also the Financial Ombudsman complaint.

[BankFodder]

I am sorry that you are getting confused. I am not surprised because you are getting conflicting advice.

Whatever, you should pay attention to the site team members here.

So I did ask you to wait a while for a reply later and you don't seem to be doing that.

I suggest that you hang on instead of leaping in feet first