Issue with lost Samsung refund **RESOLVED**

[dx100uk]

erm..you cant just raise a court claim without sending a letter of claim first.

and you need to have a final response letter from Barclays before you can goto the FOS, unless its been 8 weeks since you 1st complained.

you seem to be rushing here without carrying out the necessary research before you start actions.

did you send the SAR to barclays?

dx

 

[jk2054]

DX is right.

You need to follow proper protocols before suing.

Yes barclays won't search for your refund unless samsung provide evidence they sent it, which they haven't so barclay;'s haven't done anything wrong apart from the conflicting advice, which they already paid up for.

 

They are correct that you can't refile a chargeback after its closed. Card schemes dont allow this.

[BankFodder]

It seems to me that you have been dealing with Samsung – who are inefficient and also with your bank who are also inefficient.

To top that, you seem to have a chaotic approach and that has been extremely unhelpful.

You returned the phone to Samsung.
Samsung promise to refund you the money within a certain amount of time.
They missed the deadline.
Instead of going back to Samsung and asking what has happened, you went directly to your bank began a chargeback and without letting Samsung know in advance.
The chargeback was in place and you would have had your money back.
However Samsung then called you and said that they had attempted to return the money to you but because of the chargeback, they were prevented.
Instead of continuing with the chargeback which would have sorted things out satisfactorily, you phoned the bank and cancel the chargeback.
The bank made a mistake by telling you that you could re-invoke the chargeback and you acted on this.
Samsung then said that they have refunded you the money.
The bank said they can't find it.
It seems that Samsung have given you an incorrect reference number.

You have tried to go back to the bank to reinvoke the chargeback and the bank has now said that you can't do this because once a chargeback is gone, it's gone.

You have then sent a letter of claim apparently to Samsung giving them a certain amount of time to refund you or else you will huff and you will puff and then you will blow the house down – except that you have huffed and you have puffed – and no you don't know what to do.



Samsung may well have given you an incorrect reference number – but we can't be sure of that. It is possible that Samsung haven't made the refund at all – but they probably have and it is simply a question of reference number.

However, the bank itself is clearly very inefficient and they may have received the correct reference number but we don't know.

It's all a mess.

One thing is clear – and it's the only thing you have evidence of which is that the bank gave you incorrect information. Although the rule is that once you have cancelled the chargeback you can't reverse that cancellation – by their incorrect advice I would say that they have vitiated that rule and that they should pay the money.
It's up to them to sort it out between themselves and Samsung and of course the bank has muscle – and you don't.

You have been advised here that if you take an action against the bank that they will get mean and they will retaliate. This is most unlikely and if they did you would have an immediate basis for a legal action against them because they are obliged by law to treat you fairly and to communicate with you fairly.
The incorrect information they gave you about the chargeback amounts to a breach of contract. If we are going to talk in legal terms, it is also negligent misstatement and in my view it is also a breach of their statutory duty to communicate with you fairly.

You can certainly sue Samsung if you want but if a judge was persuaded that more likely than not they had paid the money to your bank account, then the judge will find against you which would result in you losing the case, wasted costs, and having to begin again against the bank.
In my view if you bring an action against the bank on the basis of their incorrect statement then it is almost an un-loseable case.

You can prove that you have not received the money. You can prove by the banks an admission that they gave you incorrect advice. A judge will accept without hesitation that you were entitled to rely upon their expertise and their professional advice.
A judge will accept without hesitation that their incorrect advice was a breach of their duty towards you.

Of course it will never get that far because the bank will put its hands up.

Don't imagine any of this is going to be quick. Whether you sue Samsung all the bank it will take roughly the same amount of time – although there is a greater chance that the bank will put its hands up in order to avoid trouble whereas Samsung might stick their heels in and prolong the process.

It's up to you what you want to do. Ask questions if you want. That the idea of the bank retaliating against you is risible and as I have said, if they did then we would help you begin an immediate action against them for breach of their statutory duty by not treating you fairly.
This would result in extra damages for you.

[mr_stoosh]

Thanks all for the constructive feedback

For the record I have followed protocol. When Samsung initially gave me the run around I contacted Citizens Advice Bureau almost immediately. They told me that I have to jump through certain hoops prior to attempting a claim via small claims court.

I have followed that procedure and followed it up with official letters of complaint which were sent to Samsung followed 14 days later by a final notice letter informing Samsung that I will be taking them to court if I didn't hear from them in 14 days.

This seemed to have done the trick as I got an email from a chap in the Presidential Escalation dept who has been liaising with the Payments Team. He has been passing me information from them and I have been the go between Samsung and Barclays.

I am aware that card schemes don't allow a second chargeback to be issued. I have a final response letter from Barclays and it has been more than 8 weeks since the complaint I am not rushing and I have taken measured steps and followed advice from the CAB however they did not advise me to send a letter of claim to the debtor.

I was instructed to send an official letter of complaint within that letter set out what has happened, ask if Samsung are willing to undertake a form of independent mediation and then ask why they're refusing to refund me.

Then if I haven't heard from them I was told to follow that letter up with a final notice of intention of taking them to court and give them another 14 days prior to starting the small claims procedure which I have adhered to.

Will read the letter of claim sticky thread but I'm somewhat miffed as to why this wasn't mentioned by the CAB.

@BankFodder in my defence I contacted Samsung several times during which the refund was to be issued but they continued to give me the run around. It wasn't until the 6th November when it was the last day for the refund to be processed that I got fed up and contacted the CEO team to get this sorted out. I waited until the 8th November and explained the situation to the bank and they suggested that I commence a chargeback. If in the meantime Samsung try to refund me I can always cancel the Chargeback.

Samsung contacted me on the 8th and stated that the Payments Team will not issue me a refund unless I cancel the chargeback it is then I called Barclays and after discussing it with advisor who gave me the incorrect information I cancelled the Chargeback.

I informed Samsung that I had cancelled the chargeback and despite knowing this they continued with the chargeback process allowing for the funds to be transferred to the VISA online system and due to the chargeback being cancelled a dispute reversal was initiated and the money was sent back to Samsung.

In hindsight I shouldn't have cancelled the Chargeback but when you have someone from Samsung advising me to cancel the chargeback I shouldn't have listened.

As far as Samsung are concerned they made the refund through a cancelled Chargeback and that in my opinion is very sneaky. They can say that they have sent the money via the Chargeback but it was returned to them which they're disputing. I agree it's all very messy.

I need to sit down and digest this information there's a lot to sift through. However in summary you are saying I have a better chance to sue Barclays in a small claims court than I do with Samsung. Although I can prove through bank statements and various communications that Samsung have been negligible, whereas with Barclays all I have is a complaint letter accepting that they gave me the wrong advice with regards to the chargeback.

I agree with you that Samsung will dig its heels in only to cause more issues they have clearly done so with providing me the incorrect ARN and deciding to allow for the refund to go into a defunct chargeback knowing full well that it will be returned which in my option is very underhanded.

This is all too much for me, I'm under a great deal of stress and want to give up but out of principle I'm not letting this go.

Apologies to all if I've come across as some maniacal person who's doing things at a drop of a hat but I've been following the advice of the CAB and I thought I was doing the right thing by taking Samsung to small claims court.

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Taking Samsung to court is not wrong – but it may not be the best way forward.

Citizens advice are useful for some things but when it comes to this kind of issue, then probably the best you can say about them is that they are well-intentioned.

I'm not sure what else we can say. You had better make up your mind

[mr_stoosh]

Thanks BankFodder I will have a sit down and think about this. I may even contact a Civil Litigation Solicitor to sort this mess out for me. It will eat into the refund but at least it takes the headache away.

[BankFodder]

It will probably take all of your money and you don't need to do this. It's up to you.

[mr_stoosh]

No I understand thank you for your advice. It's really quite stressful I'm going to wait for Samsung to respond to my email. I've already filed a complaint with the FOS as it has been more than 8 weeks and I have a final letter.

I'm under no illusion that this is an uphill battle and it won't be solved right away.

 

[mr_stoosh]

Hello all,

Just an update for you. Samsung have got back to me. The ARN number they have given me is correct and that they stated that the money was refunded on the cancelled chargeback.

Despite me telling them countless times that the money was returned to them, they've considered that the money has been sent and the matter is now closed.

It's like I'm going round in circles. I think I should concentrate my efforts on the bank as BankFodder stated.

They're the ones that game me false information re the Chargeback and now I'm in this mess.

Can anyone give me pointers as to what I should do next with regards to obtaining money from the bank please?

Thank you

 

 

[BankFodder]

Draft a letter of claim and we will look at it  later on

[mr_stoosh]

Thanks BankFodder I will do when I have a moment 

Sorry BankFodder do I not complete an official letter of complaint first prior to a letter of claim as I'm now taking action against Barclays and haven't informed them that I'll be taking them to small claims court.

[BankFodder]

You have already dealt with them on this and so they know the story.

Send them a letter of claim which will explain everything.

Post a draft here

[mr_stoosh]

Fair enough BankFodder thank you for the clarification.

Will draft one up soon and post it here

[mr_stoosh]

Just a quick update for those who are interested.

As per dx100uk's advice a SAR has been sent to Barclays.

The FOS have been informed and due to the workload a caseworker cannot be assigned until late March / early April however they will take on my complaint.

In the meantime I've written a letter of complaint to the CEO Executive office. Someone from the Executive office emailed me back stating that they received my complaint and a person from the Executive team will contact me to discuss. That was over 6 days ago.

I'm basically collating evidence against Barclays as Samsung is saying that they have paid the money and as per the check that they undertook on the 4th January 2024 the money on the Chargeback wasn't returned and therefore the onus is on Barclays to prove otherwise.

Once I get all the information to hand I will take legal action against them. Once I get a moment I'll draft a letter of claim and post it up here. It's been manic at work and home so haven't really had a spare moment but will endeavour to get it written up.

[mr_stoosh]

Hello all,

A quick update for you.

After complaining to the CEO of Barclays they tried to identify where the funds went but were not able to. They sent a letter to me to forward on to Samsung advising they undertake a locate trace on the funds.

Lo and behold suddenly the refund appeared in my bank account after a week later of the letter being emailed to Samsung.

Thanks to all for your help and assistance.