Speeding ticket but I was out of country

[axil23]

I just received a Speeding ticket notice through the post which was taken from a Temporary camera. I was out of the country during those dates and have tickets and visa stamps to prove the same. Three people had access to my car when I was away and all three of them are denying driving the car at that time.

 

Will I have to take the speeding ticket or can I ask for a photo to see who it looks like. Will the photo normally show the face?

[reallymadwoman]

I believe that you should provide photocopied evidence to the police to prove you were out of the country and so could not have been driving, and accompany this with the names and addresses of the 3 people with access to your car and a simple statement that they are each denying being the driver and, since you were not present, you are unable to assist any further.

 

I do have direct experience of a similar situation and proof of being out of the country was accepted as a good reason not to name the offending driver. I believe the police are not obliged to provide photos before the case reaches court, though they may do if asked, however in my case they didn't help anyway since the photo was of the back of the car and the headrests effectively obscured the driver and any passengers.

 

It may be worth one last try at the three potential drivers by telling them you're not taking the hit so you're giving all three names to the police and letting them sort it out. This worked for us - the actual driver was so scared of getting extra points for causing hassle (don't know if they do or not, but the threat worked!) that they owned up.

 

Please wait for further advice from one of the many experienced motoring issues people, but since you could not possibly be driving I don't believe you could accept the ticket anyway and could end up getting done for perjury if you tried - like that MP and his wife!

[citizenB]

I would follow RMW's advice.

[axil23]

I believe that you should provide photocopied evidence to the police to prove you were out of the country and so could not have been driving, and accompany this with the names and addresses of the 3 people with access to your car and a simple statement that they are each denying being the driver and, since you were not present, you are unable to assist any further.

 

I do have direct experience of a similar situation and proof of being out of the country was accepted as a good reason not to name the offending driver. I believe the police are not obliged to provide photos before the case reaches court, though they may do if asked, however in my case they didn't help anyway since the photo was of the back of the car and the headrests effectively obscured the driver and any passengers.

 

It may be worth one last try at the three potential drivers by telling them you're not taking the hit so you're giving all three names to the police and letting them sort it out. This worked for us - the actual driver was so scared of getting extra points for causing hassle (don't know if they do or not, but the threat worked!) that they owned up.

 

Please wait for further advice from one of the many experienced motoring issues people, but since you could not possibly be driving I don't believe you could accept the ticket anyway and could end up getting done for perjury if you tried - like that MP and his wife!

 

Thanks for the detailed advice and thank you. Will speak with the other 3 and warn them. Update here

[dx100uk]

I hope they had insurance to drive it?

 

else it could be more than a speeding ticket....

 

dx

[axil23]

I hope they had insurance to drive it?

 

else it could be more than a speeding ticket....

 

dx

 

Worse still one of the guys was from abroad who only has a International drivers licence.

[reallymadwoman]

I am certainly not advocating any attempt to evade the law, however when contacting the police be very, very careful when giving any information about who you had given permission to use your vehicle since you wouldn't want them to think you knowingly allowed someone to drive your vehicle without the necessary insurance or licence. I have a feeling that not asking if they were licensed/insured wouldn't get you out of it either.

[axil23]

I am certainly not advocating any attempt to evade the law, however when contacting the police be very, very careful when giving any information about who you had given permission to use your vehicle since you wouldn't want them to think you knowingly allowed someone to drive your vehicle without the necessary insurance or licence. I have a feeling that not asking if they were licensed/insured wouldn't get you out of it either.

 

Surely I can't get in trouble for this. Is that a punishable offence? Isn't it up to driver to make sure he has cover in place?

[axil23]

Just out of interest what would happen to a foreign driver who gets a speeding fine? No points I guess and he would just pay the fine?

[Tony P]

You say you have Visa stamps.

Do these confirm the dates of actual entry/exit?

 

Although no longer needing Visas, I live in a country that stamps every passport at every border crossing, in or out.

Great proof for HMRC and others, but it doesn't happen within 2,000 miles of UK or many places beyond.

 

Supplementary proof could be credit card and bancomat transaction slips or account could be useful.

[axil23]

You say you have Visa stamps.

Do these confirm the dates of actual entry/exit?

 

Although no longer needing Visas, I live in a country that stamps every passport at every border crossing, in or out.

Great proof for HMRC and others, but it doesn't happen within 2,000 miles of UK or many places beyond.

 

Supplementary proof could be credit card and bancomat transaction slips or account could be useful.

 

 

Yeah it was to USA so they stamped my passport + I have airline tickets/boarding passes/credit card spend. They would have not doubts that I was not here.

[Aretnap]

Surely I can't get in trouble for this. Is that a punishable offence? Isn't it up to driver to make sure he has cover in place?

It's an offence to cause or permit another person to drive without insurance.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/143

 

The penalty is the same as for driving without insurance yourself - 6-8 points and a hefty fine. If you're not sure whether the people you permit to drive your car have insurance, now would be a good time to find out.

[Aretnap]

Just out of interest what would happen to a foreign driver who gets a speeding fine? No points I guess and he would just pay the fine?

If he doesn't have a UK licence the DVLA can set up a ghost licence to keep track of his points, and he can be banned from driving in the UK i(but not his home country) if he gets 12. However if he's only a short term visitor rather than a long term resident he may well not be prosecuted.

[axil23]

If he doesn't have a UK licence the DVLA can set up a ghost licence to keep track of his points, and he can be banned from driving in the UK i(but not his home country) if he gets 12. However if he's only a short term visitor rather than a long term resident he may well not be prosecuted.

 

Thanks for this.

[dx100uk]

sorry I opened that canof worms but.

 

as pointed out

 

it MIGHT be better for you to cough, for you and them in the long run.

 

if they had no valid licence/insurance etc etc

 

taking the hit on the speeding might be cheaper and less points for you.

 

as apposed to letting it run and anything 'nasty' being found out.

 

sadly, I know someone local that had exactly the same happen.

 

it transpired the driver was only a provisional.

 

they got points [ eventually as the RK refused to tell who was driving till it had already been to court once to protect his 'mate']

 

it was a choice of his mate got a twok as well or he said he knew he was using the vehicle.

 

he got a fine for knowing the driver was a provo & ofcourse his insurance has gone skyhigh too.

 

think about that one too.

 

hope you get it sorted

 

dx

[axil23]

sorry I opened that canof worms but.

 

as pointed out

 

it MIGHT be better for you to cough, for you and them in the long run.

 

if they had no valid licence/insurance etc etc

 

taking the hit on the speeding might be cheaper and less points for you.

 

as apposed to letting it run and anything 'nasty' being found out.

 

sadly, I know someone local that had exactly the same happen.

 

it transpired the driver was only a provisional.

 

they got points [ eventually as the RK refused to tell who was driving till it had already been to court once to protect his 'mate']

 

it was a choice of his mate got a twok as well or he said he knew he was using the vehicle.

 

he got a fine for knowing the driver was a provo & ofcourse his insurance has gone skyhigh too.

 

think about that one too.

 

hope you get it sorted

 

dx

 

Interesting.

 

So would anyone know if a verbal confirmation of insurance is enough or do I need to check it?

 

How would one check if a cover note is valid anyway as the call centre reps won't speak with you due to data protection.

 

Now days most people are covered 3rd party anyway through their own insurance

 

so if someone tells me they are covered and then turns out to not be can I be held liable?

[dx100uk]

don't assume 3rd party covers driving other peoples cars

http://www.yourdrivinglicence.co.uk/driving-someone-elses-vehicle.html

 

dx

[Aretnap]

Now days most people are covered 3rd party anyway through their own insurance

Not necessarily - in days gone by third party driving other cars cover was fairly standard, but as insurers squeeze costs more and more are removing it. Additionally not everybody owns or insures their a car themselves, and for foreign resident an insurance policy issued abroad will almost never cover him to drive a UK registered car in Britain.

 

so if someone tells me they are covered and then turns out to not be can I be held liable?

Potentially, yes. No insurance is a strict liability offence so the fact that you believed he was insured wouldn't be a defence. If you could show you'd taken reasonable steps to ensure that he was insured but you were deceived then a court would probably find that there were special reasons not to endorse your licence, if it got that far, but if the conversation went something like "You are insured, aren't you?", "Oh yes (nudge nudge wink wink)" they might not consider those to be reasonable steps.

 

Apart from the criminal offence of permitting no insurance, if you allow an uninsured person to use your car and they cause an accident then under s151 of the Road Traffic Act the insurance company must still pay out to third parties, but they can then come after YOU for the money they pay out. If someone causes a serious accident, this could potentially leave you with a bill for many thousands of pounds. So if you are allowing other people to drive your car, by far the safest thing is to add them as named drivers to your own insurance policy.

[axil23]

Tricky. If I say it was me when it clearly wasn't I can be held liable for perjury. If I tell them who was diving I could still get done for no insurance even though I wouldn't have let them drive without my permission if I knowingly knew they didn't have Insurance.

 

No way am I taking a hit on this. Is there a Lawyer who specializes in this sort of stuff? Can anyone recommend one?

[honeybee13]

Tricky. If I say it was me when it clearly wasn't I can be held liable for perjury. If I tell them who was diving I could still get done for no insurance even though I wouldn't have let them drive without my permission if I knowingly knew they didn't have Insurance.

 

No way am I taking a hit on this. Is there a Lawyer who specializes in this sort of stuff? Can anyone recommend one?

 

Hello there.

 

Plenty of lawyers specialise in motor advice, a member of my family works for one. We're not able to recommend firms under CAG rules. Have a look at the Law Society website for motor specialists in your area. Or you could google.

 

Make sure you get a specialist though and then maybe talk to them on the phone to gauge whether you could work with them. They should be able to give you an idea of the cost, I would think.

 

My best, HB

[axil23]

Think I will follow the advise given here and just take the hit myself rather then get 6 points.

[Kiki1]

Before you do that, did you give any of them permission to drive while you were out of the country or was it a case of leaving the keys on the hall table ?

[axil23]

Before you do that, did you give any of them permission to drive while you were out of the country or was it a case of leaving the keys on the hall table ?

 

Case of leaving keys on the table.

[Jeff Muldoon]

This is in line with the cowboys running or should i say ...ruining...shopping at Asda. more people are complaining about the company 'Town & Country Car parks, who have form for ripping off either by wheel clamping or parking charges.

The main complaint is ...Threat!...people get letters saying they overstayed their time and if they don't pay up in 7 days the fine will double. Asda say it's out of their hands and complaints must be taken up with T&C themselves, but getting through to them is impossible i'm told. A quick look on the net will tell you the horror stories about this unsavoury bunch, and any letters from them should be ignored. They can't carry out their threats...just bin the letters and forget it.

[dx100uk]

This is in line with the cowboys running or should i say ...ruining...shopping at Asda. more people are complaining about the company 'Town & Country Car parks, who have form for ripping off either by wheel clamping or parking charges.

The main complaint is ...Threat!...people get letters saying they overstayed their time and if they don't pay up in 7 days the fine will double. Asda say it's out of their hands and complaints must be taken up with T&C themselves, but getting through to them is impossible i'm told. A quick look on the net will tell you the horror stories about this unsavoury bunch, and any letters from them should be ignored. They can't carry out their threats...just bin the letters and forget it.

 

 

urm wrong thread?

 

dx