Keep Clear Box accident

[dccantona]

Any general advise please.

 

I was involved in an accident whilst coming towards a Keep Clear Box.

 

The road had filtered into 2 lanes and as I arrived at the KCB a 7.5 truck was on the inside lane.

I noticed a vehicle suddenly pulling out from a Ford garage and the driver looking left then suddenly pulled out turning right and straight into my offside.

He claims that I was in the KCB .

 

He was potentially obscured by the truck but should have shown more caution .

 

My point is I was not in the box and though he claimed I was this meant that I would have had to be hit then decide to reverse backwards with traffic behind me.

 

What I would like to know is even if I was in the box moving forward or stationary am I at all culpable?

Without the box he has pulled out of a side entrance and hit my car on the main road.

The fact that 2 of his colleagues said they saw me in the KCB when they work in the garage 50 metres away makes little odds to me.

 

Also the garage manager refused to give me the drivers details ; stating that

" all my insurance company want to know is that he was a Ford technician".

 

I have asked the Ford Admin Dept to verify if a police report was filed within 24 hours as I did not receive the details.

 

Any views thanks.

Also just received a response from Ford

 

Unfortunately I cannot comment on the circumstances as we do not yet have the completed accident report form for our driver.

 

I can advise that the drivers name has been given as J>*** *******r.

We are not obliged to give his personal address, as he was an employee driving in the course of his duties the business address is sufficient.

All correspondence should be directed to the address below.

 

As I understand it, the vehicle belongs to a customer and therefore once again I cannot give you their personal details.

 

The insurance company is *******. However they will not be aware of the accident until we receive the form and forward it to them.

 

I will chase up the form today.

Now I do not have the driver details but they are refusing to give owner details. No mention of police report also.

[Ganymede]

I'm not sure I understand the circumstances. Could you please explain again what happened and where the lorry was etc.

 

Also, the vehicle owners details are irrelevant as they are not involved in the accident. The garage is the Defendant.

[dw190]

Makes no difference if you were in or out of the keep clear box.

 

If the other party has come from the garage on the left and collided with you on the main raod its his fault.

[crem]

If you are referring to a keep clear box denoted by white writing on the road, then of course you should try not to stop on it. However, I do not believe there is any offence committed if you do stop on the writing other than being accused of being a discourteous driver. Either way, just because you are stopped there doesn't make it your fault if some idiot drives into the side of your car!

[heliosuk]

What if it's a yellow cross hatch one the OP is referring to?

[citizenkain]

well,I would have thought whatever type of a box it is no one should be looking left,turning right anddriving side on into another vehicle!,whether the vehicle was in the box,moving or not!

[crem]

ditto

[dw190]

What if it's a yellow cross hatch one the OP is referring to?

 

What if it was? It makes no difference.

 

What if the op's car was a pedestrian obstructing a Keep Clear? Are you saying its ok to mow the pedestrian down.

 

Parked on double yellow lines or stopped in a box junction, if you hit while stationary your not at fault.

 

The op may have been staionary or moving, it matters not.

[heliosuk]

What if it was? It makes no difference.

 

What if the op's car was a pedestrian obstructing a Keep Clear? Are you saying its ok to mow the pedestrian down.

 

Parked on double yellow lines or stopped in a box junction, if you hit while stationary your not at fault.

 

The op may have been staionary or moving, it matters not.

 

Wow...obviously rattled someones' cage. Was only asking...not stating.

[renegadeimp]

Were you in the box? Yes/no

 

Were you stationary? Yes/No

 

Did the other driver pull out and hit your car while you were stationary? Yes/No

 

If yes to these, then the other driver is 100% at fault. Even if you were in the box, even if you were stationary, he should have checked his exitway was clear before attempting a maneuver. He didn't check, he pulled out, he hit a stationary car, HE is at fault.

[dccantona]

Were you in the box? Yes/no

 

Were you stationary? Yes/No

 

Did the other driver pull out and hit your car while you were stationary? Yes/No

 

If yes to these, then the other driver is 100% at fault. Even if you were in the box, even if you were stationary, he should have checked his exitway was clear before attempting a maneuver. He didn't check, he pulled out, he hit a stationary car, HE is at fault.

 

Many thanks for the replies .

I was not in the box and was stationary. He claims I moved out of the box but I just wanted to be clear that regardless of my position he hit my car and was at fault.

Even though I am fully comp my excess is circa £400 and now I assume I have to get 3 ? quotes directly to their insurance company. 1 thing I don't want to happen is to have the Ford Garage do the repairs!

[dw190]

Wow...obviously rattled someones' cage. Was only asking...not stating.

 

Why ask when the coloured image attached by the op shows the standard Keep Clear Box in white.

[renegadeimp]

Let your insurer's deal with it. Thats why you pay them.

[dw190]

Many thanks for the replies .

I was not in the box and was stationary. He claims I moved out of the box but I just wanted to be clear that regardless of my position he hit my car and was at fault.

Even though I am fully comp my excess is circa £400 and now I assume I have to get 3 ? quotes directly to their insurance company. 1 thing I don't want to happen is to have the Ford Garage do the repairs!

 

Contact their insurer and ask when they have the report from their insured if they will collect your vehicle and leave you with a courtesy car while its repaired.

[Conniff]

As said above, it makes no difference if you were in the KCB or not, if you had the right of way and the exit to the box was clear, then you are in the right.

[Desperate Daniella]

They are going to fight this because it is a customer's car and they don't want to admit liability. Presumably that car must be quite badly damaged too.

 

You are absolutely in the right, and their driver is 100% in the wrong.

 

Let your insurance company deal with it and tell them there is no way you will be going for a 50/50 settlement and it is their duty to recover all your excess.

 

Most insurance companies now have their designated repair garages so you shouldn't have to get quotes at all. And they should provide a courtesy car while yours is being repaired.

[renegadeimp]

They can fight all they want. Defendant was stationary. Claimant pulled out without looking and then drove right into them. Simple open and shut case.

[Desperate Daniella]

It is an open and shut case. I had something similar last year, but you wouldn't believe how long it took to sort it out and get them to admit liability. The driver who hit me was driving someone else's car too, and that is the incentive to try and get out of it, rather than admit to the owner of the car that they were completely at fault.

[dccantona]

Further to this . I am now been given the run around by Zurich. They state the other party is disputing this & 3 weeks ago requested a diagram. As I pointed out if they haven't sent back the request may well indicate their true position. However they claim not to be able to do anything until they receive this. So I posed the question what if they do not receive this. No answer. Another point is that whilst I am fully comp; my excess is £450 I am not in a position to pay/ don't want to I have a feeling my insurance premium will go up and continue for next 5 years. Has anyonr tried to put in a claim for additional future increase in payments when this is a no fault accident? Also any advise on how to expedite matters with Zurich. I have already suggested I am considering a Claims Management Company!

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi,

 

You need to get tough with Zurich. Your premiums should not go up if this is a no fault accident. You can always insure with someone else if they try that. Unfortunately if this is not resolved before your next renewal then your premium will go up, but they should refund any difference in the premium when the claim has been finalized in your favour.

 

Tell Zurich that they should write to the other side giving them 14 days to respond and provide the diagram. If they do not do this then Zurich should instruct their legal department/outside lawyers to write to them saying that they will start proceedings to recover the loss. Emphasise that you are in no way to blame for the accident and that you are paying them to protect you.

 

Insurance companies like 50/50 settlements and you should not accept this. If they give you too much grief you can report them to the FOS. I did that last year and it really concentrated their minds on sorting out the claims for me.

[Darfyddi]

To get your car repaired you will have to either pay the excess or get other driver to admit liability in time as I am sure you already know but as this matter is likely to take months to sort out you may have to cough up - you did choose the £450 excess? I don't mean to sound so nasty here as I too got caught out having to fork out £300 when I couldn't afford it only to wait over a year to get it back.

 

Some things I notice working on the presumption you were traveling in the direction that your poto is and the 3rd party came from the left, out of the garage:

 

1.) Which side were you hit - you claim offside (driver side) yet imply nearside (passenger side).

2.) There is only one lane - this does not split into 2 until after the KCB.

3.) If there was a lorry to your left then, as there is only one lane then you must have been overtaking it; perfectly acceptable if lane 2 after the KCB is clear as there are no apparent restrictions on overtaking such as signage or solid white line down the middle. Though overtaking a large vehicle on the approach to a junction with a comercial entrance/exit to the obscured side might be considered foolish.

4.) You claim you were stationary - this means you were not overtaking anything so were you:

4a.) before the KCB and the 3rd party steared right, into your front bumper/bonnet?

4b.) on the KCB and the 3rd party hit you nearside (Which panels)?

4c.) after the KCB and the 3rd party steared left and hit your rear bumper/boot?

5.) Pressuming the lorry driver had to stop as the 3rd party was in front of it(?) then have you got the lorry driver's statement?

6.) Did you take photo's on your phone of the accident or later on of the damage to your car?

 

Lots of things don't seem to add up here but I would have thought that:

a.) If you were stationary AFTER the KCB then the 3rd party is probably at fault and you should be able to prove this with photo's of the damage.

b.) If you were stationary ON the KCB then the 3rd party is likely to be at fault but you may face a telling off for blocking a KCB if the matter went to court.

c.) If you were stationary BEFORE the KCB then you may struggle as it is single lane at that point and you were (for want of a better word) 'hiding' behind the lorry.

d.) If you were OVERTAKING (moving) AND lane 2 that appears after the KCB was clear, then it would be difficult to prove fault as both drivers should have assesed the hazards before overtaking/pulling out and in this case would likely end up as 50/50.

 

 

If you are able to answer 1 and 4 and maybe provide photo's (6)then advice might be easier.

[dccantona]

I received a reply from the other insurance.Please find our clients statement and sketch below.

 

We can confirm we hold you fully liable for performing a manoeuvre by overtaking a line of stationary traffic when unsafe to do so.

We can confirm we will not be making a claim against your insurance as our client is not comprehensively covered under their policy.

We would request in future please liaise with ourselves rather than our client directly.

We look forward to your comments regarding this and a statement and sketch by return.

 

Well our client is not comprehensively covered What can this mean even if 3rd party & I'm at fault there is a claim. Still will not provide keeper details. Legal requirement?[ATTACH=CONFIG]46544[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]46545[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]46546[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]46547[/ATTACH]

Anyway this is their drivers statement. Interesting how the diagram shows the road very narrow before KCB. This is strange as this was not an accident anywhere in the country ; he works there, everyday. Slightly disingenuous .

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46542[/ATTACH]The road shows 2 lanes after KCB. However before as indicated by photos there 2 lanes of traffic which everyone uses to filter left or right. I also found this

 

22.24 The KEEP CLEAR marking is legally

enforceable only when used in conjunction with an

upright sign to diagram 642.2A and backed by a

traffic regulation order. However, without regular

enforcement action, the mandatory version is unlikely

to be any better respected than the advisory marking.

22.25 When the mandatory marking is used on a

road where waiting restrictions apply, the yellow

lines to diagram 1017 or 1018.1 are needed only

if a restriction on the same length of road applies

at times other than those covered by the stopping

prohibition. If the KEEP CLEAR marking is advisory,

yellow lines will always be needed if a waiting

restriction is in force. The lines will be positioned

136

WORDED AND DIAGRAMMATIC MARKINGS

between the KEEP CLEAR marking and the kerb.

Similar rules apply to the use of “no loading” marks

on the kerbs. In a controlled parking zone, yellow

lines will always be required whether or not the KEEP

CLEAR marking is mandatory.

To answer Darrfyddi it's 4a 4a.) before the KCB and the 3rd party steared right, into your front bumper/bonnet?

Does anyone know if its illegal to filter right/left on the road without clear markings. Though I see it all the time. Anywhere in the Road Traffic Act etc

[dccantona]

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