Me and My Debts.

[Old Cogger]

Report to ICO now give dates etc, I did with The HSBC and they admitted in the end to ICO their failings ( albeit got away with it) and stated new system in place to comply with 40 days (ha ha) believe it if ever have to use it again - It even cost me a court case as evidence I needed arrived too late, and low and behold the DJ and regulators did not want to know.

[echelonk]

I had this too.

I have asked for all the data, and that includes the contract signed,

It was apparently not able to be found.

Does that mean they have no contract?

also it havent got anything since 2006, so 8 years ago, which is a bit fishy,

and not in any way shape or form an excuse by them

an addition. if they can't find and deliver a signed contract, doesnt that mean they have no contract. therefore no case?

[dx100uk]

what do you mean by 'contract'?

theres no such thing.

 

 

if you mean agreement

like for a credit card or loan

 

 

then if they cant find it

they cant enforce it.

 

 

they can thus only 'ask' for payment

and you can

'ask' them to go away off.

 

 

dx

[zulu123]

Many many years ago I took out an argos card , I can locate statements going back to 2005 ,

around 2009 I moved address (out of my parents house an into my own) an towards end of 2010 received notice of sums in arrears of around £50,

2009-2010 i got into severe financial difficulty however I setup a payment plan with a debt management company  total debt with them was almost £1k.

in 2012 I DSAR'd them they sent back some GEMS archive reports from 2003 to 2012 but no copy of the original agreement

around mid 2013 I CCA'd them I have copy of the original letter sent but I do not have in my files their response although id imagine they probably would have sent it.

No where in my records can i find the original signed agreement ( not in their dsar response) the debt went to moorcroft.

Around 2018 approximately the debt management company stepped down and I took on managing this amongst other debts myself, I moved all the payments over to my bank ac I may not have updated any income/expenditure requests is likely just kept payments the same.

From 2019 to 2022 moorcroft have been writing with statements, balance updates an reminding me argos card owned by arrow.

Total balance is now approx £700 as moorcroft have been receiving a monthly payment all this time.

I have lost my freelancing job this year (but also will be starting a new one at much lower income level due to tax law changes similar job but much lower pay due to higher taxes)

Where do I go from here

Help!

 

[dx100uk]

you should of sent a CCA request NOT an SAR. you've probably been cash cowed for years.

 

 

send one to arrows today

 

dx

 

[zulu123]

I have a very old argos card debt amount owed is below £1k, I have offered to setttle for a token sum that got declined , I did recently speak to moorcroft whom informed me capquest have brought out arrows.

I did try an post into my last thread but it got locked last time was suggested to CCA them?

What do I do - Help!

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

I've merged your old and new threads so all the information is together.

HB

[zulu123]

I have numerous defaulted debts from around 2010 one of which is a halifax credit card.

I was on a debt management plan with a provider an then started managing my own debts few years back.

Around 2016 last of my credit file defaults dropped off my files (6 years clean payment history)

And I was able to move a very expensive mortgage that was ex-northern rock (tulip) to a high st lender as well as get new lines of credit,

recently I made offers on my past unsecured debts, I have diligently kept track of past settlement offers received and many counteroffers are higher than what they previously offered me in the past.

I have been making token payments on all my aged defaulted unsecured debts(mostly credit cards) although many of the agreements have lapsed!

Some of the debts requested income/expenditure before considering my settlement offers.

I own numerous buy to let properties with mortgages an have a job in a field where you are credit checked an risk losing job if you have defaults on your file, luckily my file is clean(more than 6 years since last default)

I am also in the process of mortgaging my buy to lets to fix the rates for next 5-years as costs are going up! I can do this as my credit file is clean now.

However I still have many aged credit card debts owed.

I also have many new credit card debts (but manageable as kept in reign) with one being with halifax as well as a mortgage with halifax that is upto date.

I plan to do a mortgage product transfer when my very low fixed rate is up an keep with halifax and not move to another lender for my mortgage, this is allowed if last 12 months of payments are upto date I understand rates are climbing quickly but this time round im being very conservative.

Now this week I got letter from Moorcroft saying the defaulted aged halifax credit card debt has gone back to Halifax.

Halifax are definitely making profits on my upto date accounts,

im just wondering what their next move is an what my options are with this original defaulted credit card debt with Halifax thats owed?

 

One thing I should add , Moorcroft were requesting income an expenditure last time i spoke to them , they said they would have to share this with argos along with any settlement offer for them to consider it.

[AndyOrch]

Argos no longer own the debt so couldn't give a hoot....you are not a liberty to divulge any I&E details with a DCA.

[zulu123]

Thanks Andyorch for confirming this , so should I still CCA them? is there a upto date guide/template on this in this site somewhere?

[AndyOrch]

Yes you should if not already.

 

[dx100uk]

moorcroft dont buy debts ignore them

capquest have not bought out arrows

capquest have always been part of the arrows group, and the owner ofyour debt.

not sure why you are speaking to a lying DCa on the phone...never ever do that.

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

and have

ZERO legal powers on ANY debt - no matter WHAT it's type.

when was the last time you paid this?

if halifax still own the card debt then they might well make you pay it off when you update your mortgage or whatever with them as part of the deal.

im very very concerned that here like your other thread you are negotiation with DCA's....dont ....ignore them. and stop paying them blindly being a dca cash cow!!

the old debts can never comeback on your file.

dx

[zulu123]

thanks dx100uk , ok i never seen capquest on any letters only arrows occasionally, it was call centre advisor that mentioned capquest, to answer your question they (arrows) get a token payment every month.

[dx100uk]

why have you blindly paying any dca on old debts?

you've been here 10yrs now..

who told you to do that and run the statute barred date to infinity?

 

[zulu123]

no one , i just continued when i took over from my debt management company an set up resumed payments after they started relentlessly chasing me again.

I will take your advice an stop the payments now.

[dx100uk]

yep.. that was a silly thing to start

you got conned by the DMP system.

was this a paid for dmp (Fees charging) or a free charity?

dx

[dx100uk]

lots of threads merged for full story

really surprised you didnt CCA everyone years ago and stopped paying then...wonder how many £100's you've blindly paid when there was never any enforceable proof you owed it...

[fletch70]

I think we need to remember that many people believe they are morally tied to repaying the debt and many DMP providers reinforce this belief.  People make many choices and I would rather not victim blame or make people feel any worse than they probably do already. I think a cca request was sent to argos- see post 58

What is important is that each account is looked at and a plan of action brought together.

Personally I would stop paying Argos, I bet if you sent a S78 request now they would recon it but at the wrong address,

for example you current one rather than where you lived when you took it out.

I know after my ex died, I asked for proof of debt and they sent back current address and not our matrimonial one where they lived when the card was taken out. 

There are tried and tested ways and means of checking if debts are enforceable - also remember, sometimes when debts are sold on they are done so with provision that the new owner can not get the original paperwork or even they can not litigate. Doesn’t stop them trying.

I had two RBS credit cards with enforceable credit agreements which when sold to Cabot, were written off.

[FTMDave]

Open.

[zulu123]

following on to posts #65 #66 I did the CCA request for Argos

results were as follows...

Posted 21st july with Postal order dated 21-July signed for with royal mail ref code

They replied their letter dated 1st August this letter was actually received 7 august on back of envelope showed royal mail sticker stating 1st delivery attempt (to me)  2-august

So doing some quick maths
21ST JULY - 7 AUG = 17 DAYS
21ST TO 2-AUG     = 12 DAYS(INCL END DATE)
21ST TO 2-AUG     = 13 DAYS(INCL END DATE)

Is this within the permitted time limits or was it out?

the royal mail tracking history says 'we've got it' ie it shows it was posted but never received! so much for tracking!

Also their letter has stated following (i copy/paste it here leaving out my name and their name at top/bottom of letter):

"Under s78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("s78"), we are obliged to send you a copy of the executed
agreement and of any other document referred to in it together with a statement showing:
(a) the state of the account;
(b) the amount currently payable under the agreement; and
(c)the amount and due date of payments which will become due if you do not draw further on the
account.
The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 explains
what must be included in the copy agreement.

Regulation 3 provides that the copy may omit certain information, Including the signature box. Regulation 7 provides that if the agreement has been varied the copy must include a statement of the terms of the agreement as varied.

 
The High Court case of Carey v HSBC Bank pic [2009] has confirmed that we can satisfy our duty under s78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement.

In accordance with this, we enclose the following:
1.A copy of the executed agreement as required by s78
2.A statement of the terms of the agreement as varied as required by Regulation 7.

We also confirm the state of your account is as follows:
(a)amount currently payable (current balance) - £759.68 the amount and due dates of payments which will become due If you do not draw further on the account (your minimum payment and the date your minimum payment is due - £ 0.00 on 14 August 2023.

"In the letter there is what looks like a statement of account interestingly min monthly payment due is :0.00 an due date 14.8.23

current balance £759.68 current credit limit £980.00

also photocopy (black an white- ok quality) of the signed agreement (1page) from 2001

an 2pages of very small print t&c's (colour-good quality) what looks like from 2011

if someone can help me understand what im looking for or check or do as im not too sure.

thanks

 

[Annie71]

If I have read your post correctly, you were asking if the delay in receiving your request was relevant.

Under the CCA agreement becomes unenforceable 14 days after the creditor receives your request.

However, that is only until they respond so to answer your question, it doesn’t matter if it was late.

As for the agreement, without seeing it , it would be difficult to know if it contained everything needed but one page for the original does seem short.

Maybe try and read it and see if it refers to anything that is not there, for example it may reference something overleaf or below or in section x which isn’t there. 

[dx100uk]

we cant ever hope to consider if things are enforceable or not without you scanning everything they sent up to ONE multipage PDF 

read upload CAREFULLY.

dx

 

[zulu123]

Here is the anonymised pdf multipage upload of the CCA Argos response I received.

 

 

01_08_2023_Argos_card_S78_anonimised.compressed.pdf

[dx100uk]

thats not a CCA return

it's an application form, which is devoid of many of the prescribed terms on it and there is not page.2.

if the card was taken out in 2001 the address and the T&C's must be for that date too and state the same address

stop paying ignore them 

when if it ever gets sold to a DCA, ignore them too, until/unless you ever get a letter of claim then comeback here.

dx

 

[zulu123]

Well... that application form does say 'credit agreement ' at top of it i did censor it out in my haste.

I re-upload the portion of it here , Does it change anything?

Ok I will stop paying

thanks

 

Screenshot3.pdf