Interview Under Caution: Housing Benefit

[sickwiworry]

Hi, I’m new here and would really appreciate some help. I’ve read through many posts dealing with similar scenarios to the one I’m experiencing right now, but to be honest, they’re giving me even more to worry about.

Two weeks ago I received a letter from my LA asking me to attend an Interview Under Caution. I have been claiming housing and council tax benefits for the last 3 years and cancelled my claim recently. Within 3 days I received the IUC letter.

I have sought advice from a solicitor specialising in this sort of thing and he will attend the rescheduled interview with me in a couple of weeks.

However, I have a few questions I wanted to put out to this forum – all contributions welcome, thanks.

My solicitor told me that the investigators have probably already seen my bank statements, and herein lies a problem. Over the past 3 years there are quite a few transactions on my accounts that are not mine. I have a business partner whom I have allowed to use my main account when they did not have their own bank account. Monies have entered and left the accounts, but not all are mine. How do I prove to the LA that they aren’t mine?

I was the sole claimant. Have the LA the right to interview my business partner under caution too, even though they have not made a claim for any benefits whatsoever? They had no knowledge of my claim and now I’ve told them what’s happened they’re scared of messing up in case it makes my case look worse.

I didn’t declare this other activity to HB as I knew it wasn’t mine and what’s it got to do with my claim anyway? Sorry, but I think I’ve been a bit naive here. Is naivete a defence?

Will my business partner be investigated/open to scrutiny too? My home is also the business address, and although my business partner doesn’t live here, they have spent some nights a week stopping over when we’ve been working. We are not co-habiting, our relationship is strictly business and friendship. Neither do we have any financial links, other than the bank account transactions. I’m worried that the LA will try to put them in the property, which would affect my claim as a single occupant.

HB knew I was self employed when I made the initial claim, so it’s not as if I’ve had a business without their knowledge, but they haven’t been made aware of changes in circumstances over time, especially over the last 12 months.

I realise I’ve been stupid, but I need to present a defence that doesn’t implicate anyone else, but at the same time I do need my business partner to back me up. I wish I could handle this myself, but without my business partner my case looks a whole lot worse.

Also, I do have a history of stress/anxiety/depression issues and was retired from my profession on the grounds of ill health several years ago. I’ve already made an appointment with my GP because my mental state has been shot to sh*t since that letter landed a couple of weeks ago. I’m having difficulty functioning at the moment, sick with worry and cannot sleep properly. My business partner is scared that our names are going to be splashed all over the local paper and we won’t be able to hold our heads up when the sh*t hits the fan.

We’re both scared witless and would appreciate some input.

Many thanks

[jadeybags]

They certainly can bring the business partner into the investigation if they think they have played a part in any fraud.

What reason did you give for stopping your claim? I would have thought they had too much time on their hands if they have started digging into your bank account after just cancelling a claim.

My council had over 900 fraud reports from joe public in one year, they wittled it down to investigating 200 of them. Have they got time to even think about you through just cancelling your claim?

Is it possible someone has contacted them? They also are supposed to have good reason to suspect fraud & be allowed to dip into your bank accounts to see all the transactions. Had you given them any bank statements fairly recently?

Stopping your claim shouldn't give them a good enough reason to suspect fraud tbh.

[krsrejm06]

hi im no proffessional and cant help much but i have been through this even if for different circumstances . Be prepared during your IUC they will have already spoken to anyone they can find , they will have bank statements of all your accounts . If for any reason ( i am not accusing just warning ) your business partner had any other links to your address ( name on a bill / car insurance / name on a contact list at a school / named your address on any GP dentist insuranmce etc ) They will have copies !!!

When i went to my IUC they let me talk first asked some questions . They had already spoken to my landlord , childs teacher etc so be prepared to be 100% honest and upfront - best of luck ,seeking legal advice is the best way IME x

[antone]

First off, you should see if your solicitor can find out from them what evidence they have against you and, more fundamentally, what wrongdoing are they alleging?

[jabba jones]

Over the past 3 years there are quite a few transactions on my accounts that are not mine. I have a business partner whom I have allowed to use my main account when they did not have their own bank account. Monies have entered and left the accounts, but not all are mine.

 

Why would your BUSINESS PARTNER not have a bank account for THREE years ?!?!?!

Edited March 27, 2013 by jabba jones

[sickwiworry]

They certainly can bring the business partner into the investigation if they think they have played a part in any fraud.

What reason did you give for stopping your claim? I would have thought they had too much time on their hands if they have started digging into your bank account after just cancelling a claim.

My council had over 900 fraud reports from joe public in one year, they wittled it down to investigating 200 of them. Have they got time to even think about you through just cancelling your claim?

Is it possible someone has contacted them? They also are supposed to have good reason to suspect fraud & be allowed to dip into your bank accounts to see all the transactions. Had you given them any bank statements fairly recently?

Stopping your claim shouldn't give them a good enough reason to suspect fraud tbh.

 

Thanks for your input jadeybags. My business partner didn't know about my claim. The business went t*ts up 3 years ago and that's when I made the claim, but I did tell HB that I was trying to get another business off the ground. My business partner decided to try and resurrect the old business while I concentrated on the new one. The old business was kind of resurrected and a little income was achieved, but less than what I was declaring anyway.

 

I think an investigation may have already been under way, and once I came off the benefits I think they've had to act quickly and request me to see them. I do have a suspicion regarding a tip from from a neighbour following a dispute, but no-one knew I was claiming, so it could have been a stab in the dark to get me in trouble... maybe (?)

[scotgal68]

LA must have a valid reason to access bank account info. Did you withdraw your claim because you had an inkling that they were investigating you? Jadeybags is right when she says that if they suspect your business partner to be involved in fraud then they can involve them. Transactions on your account for other people can suggest money laundering, tax evasion and fraud.I am not suggesting this, but there's a huge crack down on unexplained credits. I recently paid money in over the counter and had to give an explanation of origin - So it could be your bank that has aroused suspicions - getting a solicitor was a good call, all you can do is wait and see x

Also Jabba's question struck me too,

no bank account for business partner or business account?

[sickwiworry]

hi im no proffessional and cant help much but i have been through this even if for different circumstances . Be prepared during your IUC they will have already spoken to anyone they can find , they will have bank statements of all your accounts . If for any reason ( i am not accusing just warning ) your business partner had any other links to your address ( name on a bill / car insurance / name on a contact list at a school / named your address on any GP dentist insuranmce etc ) They will have copies !!!

When i went to my IUC they let me talk first asked some questions . They had already spoken to my landlord , childs teacher etc so be prepared to be 100% honest and upfront - best of luck ,seeking legal advice is the best way IME x

 

Thanks krsrejm06. My business partner does have other links to the address, but none that I would have thought were enough to definitely prove the main residence of someone and put them permanently in the place. I could be wrong though. I'm sure they'll make the rules fit their cause and not mine! I know they haven't spoken to the landlord. If you don't mind me asking (I don't think I've read your story on here yet), why did they need to speak to yours first? I'm just trying to work out if they may contact them. Thanks.

[sickwiworry]

First off, you should see if your solicitor can find out from them what evidence they have against you and, more fundamentally, what wrongdoing are they alleging?

 

Thanks for your input. My solicitor tells me we won't find out until his disclosure briefing on the day. Can my solicitor request this info earlier?

[sickwiworry]

Why would your BUSINESS PARTNER not have a bank account for THREE years ?!?!?!

 

A screwed credit history and no clean address with ID to get one.

[sickwiworry]

LA must have a valid reason to access bank account info. Did you withdraw your claim because you had an inkling that they were investigating you? Jadeybags is right when she says that if they suspect your business partner to be involved in fraud then they can involve them. Transactions on your account for other people can suggest money laundering, tax evasion and fraud.I am not suggesting this, but there's a huge crack down on unexplained credits. I recently paid money in over the counter and had to give an explanation of origin - So it could be your bank that has aroused suspicions - getting a solicitor was a good call, all you can do is wait and see x

 

Yes, I did have an inkling, but I was preparing to come off it anyway as I had some work come my way and knew it would send me into not being eligible any more.

 

No tax evasion! All our accounts and tax returns are above board and legit

[scotgal68]

LA must have a valid reason to access bank account info. Did you withdraw your claim because you had an inkling that they were investigating you? Jadeybags is right when she says that if they suspect your business partner to be involved in fraud then they can involve them. Transactions on your account for other people can suggest: money laundering, tax evasion and fraud.I am not suggesting this

but there's a huge crack down on unexplained credits. I recently paid money in over the counter and had to give an explanation of origin - So it could be your bank that has aroused suspicions - getting a solicitor was a good call, all

you can do is wait and see. Btw even if you'd stopped claiming a year ago, they can still investigate suspected fraud, no time limits. So I don't think they're rushing because you've ended your claim. Are you getting any other benefits, is your business partner receiving benefit?

[sickwiworry]

LA must have a valid reason to access bank account info. Did you withdraw your claim because you had an inkling that they were investigating you? Jadeybags is right when she says that if they suspect your business partner to be involved in fraud then they can involve them. Transactions on your account for other people can suggest: money laundering, tax evasion and fraud.I am not suggesting this

but there's a huge crack down on unexplained credits. I recently paid money in over the counter and had to give an explanation of origin - So it could be your bank that has aroused suspicions - getting a solicitor was a good call, all

you can do is wait and see. Btw even if you'd stopped claiming a year ago, they can still investigate suspected fraud, no time limits. So I don't think they're rushing because you've ended your claim. Are you getting any other benefits, is your business partner receiving benefit?

 

No, no other benefits and my business partner hasn't claimed anything either.

[antone]

Thanks for your input. My solicitor tells me we won't find out until his disclosure briefing on the day. Can my solicitor request this info earlier?

 

Hmm. I'm not a lawyer - my understanding was that the information could be released earlier to a solicitor, but I'm afraid I can't be sure.

[scotgal68]

I edited my post btw. I think you will just have to sit tight and see what evidence they have before you can start a defence. It's difficult I know, but if you can explain those transactions and prove you're not a couple then you might just be in a stronger position. Try not to worry until you see what you're dealing with, best advice I have

[sickwiworry]

Hmm. I'm not a lawyer - my understanding was that the information could be released earlier to a solicitor, but I'm afraid I can't be sure.

 

I'll check it out, thanks

[sickwiworry]

I edited my post btw. I think you will just have to sit tight and see what evidence they have before you can start a defence. It's difficult I know, but if you can explain those transactions and prove you're not a couple then you might just be in a stronger position. Try not to worry until you see what you're dealing with, best advice I have

 

Thanks. I'm preparing for the worst case scenario, with evidence to back my side of the story, so anything less will be a bonus

[sickwiworry]

Does anyone know if a benefits recipient has been in receipt of the odd gift of cash or loans (that show up on bank statements) from parents counts as 'income' in the eyes of the HB dept, even if they have to be paid back?

 

Thanks.

[antone]

Does anyone know if a benefits recipient has been in receipt of the odd gift of cash or loans (that show up on bank statements) from parents counts as 'income' in the eyes of the HB dept, even if they have to be paid back?

 

Thanks.

 

Money that's been lent to you counts as capital (in other words, savings) rather than income. Cash gifts I'm not so sure about. When I was a benefit processor I applied a "common sense" approach - £50 from your granny on your birthday I'd just ignore, but a regular £50 per week I'd have to take into account. I'm not sure whether or not I was applying the rules correctly, though, so don't take that as gospel.

[jadeybags]

Does anyone know if a benefits recipient has been in receipt of the odd gift of cash or loans (that show up on bank statements) from parents counts as 'income' in the eyes of the HB dept, even if they have to be paid back?

 

Thanks.

 

Bank loan I had recently got the compliance officer I had visit didn't even question, nor the 200 pounds paypal deposit that had gone into my bank from an eBay sale. I think they would only question regular deposits.

[sickwiworry]

Thanks antone and jadeybags. That's a few transactions I can account for without them being too detrimental to my cause:madgrin:

[Feebee_71]

My council wanted to know what a large deposit and withdrawal showing on my bank statement were all about as part of my HB claim last summer (was almost £2,000 and showed as going in as cash then an almost identical amount going out the same day) explained it was a holiday balance payment for elderly parents who don't have internet banking, showed invoice as confirmation of amounts and dates travelling and all was ok even though the deposit had been cash!!

 

Feebee_71

[id6052]

My business partner does have other links to the address, but none that I would have thought were enough to definitely prove the main residence of someone and put them permanently in the place.

 

It might assist members in advising you if you could clarify what other links you refer to

[id6052]

The business went t*ts up 3 years ago and that's when I made the claim, but I did tell HB that I was trying to get another business off the ground. My business partner decided to try and resurrect the old business while I concentrated on the new one. The old business was kind of resurrected and a little income was achieved, but less than what I was declaring anyway.

 

Did you advise the Council at the time that the original business had: -

 

1. ceased trading?
   
2. recommenced trading?
   

[Stan Lee]

So your business partner was running a business using your bank account for multiple years because he/she had bad credit? But surely it doesn't take a lot to get a basic bank account, of the kind that CAGGERs advise people to get if they're about to go bankrupt? Was your partner having to use your account for credit for the business transactions?

 

I appreciate that you're reticent to go into too many details online (that's smart), but from what you've said, surely you will need your business partner to speak to the LA investigators on record to confirm the unorthodox business relationship you have had in the past?

 

Also, my understanding was that investigators may well release details to legal over the phone, but that they only really have to just prior to the interview, and that's just enough information so that legal can advise their client accordingly. (I am open to correction on that though.)

 

What I would say is that, given that this all sounds pretty unorthodox, you're going to need evidence to back it up, whether that be details of the business using your account, and/or your partner going on record. As it stands, if I were a fraud investigator (which I'm not, nor am I an ex DWP/LA employee), the first person I would be speaking to post-IUC would be your (ex) partner.