work programme after 2 years

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Note the heading on page 2, "My job seeker journey", the scripty font on the following page, and the blatant misuse of the apostrophe - All smacks of A4e involvement in drawing it up.... For some reason, barge pole springs to mind.

 

Oh, and I would fail on at least three counts on the "job seeker journey". No updated "about me" profile, no UJ account, and certainly no "voicemail" - As for email, they can always send it to /dev/null

Perhaps... however, other Work Programme Providers (such as Ingeus) also refer to "Customer Journeys"

 

http://ingeusstaff.co.uk/diagram

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45036[/ATTACH]

[Bakatcha]

Yeah - they seem to like the "journey" analogy. Didn't see anything about the journey being one of ever decreasing circles until the victim disappears up their own fundament though.

[tommytech]

well I was fortunate to find a job last September which unfortunately ended in late march this year due to being in a car accident, before that I was enrolled with pertemps. When the job ended late march I signed back on and was put back with pertemps in June for one month before being refereed to this post work program last week. They told me I had been with my provider for 2 years even though I was working for 7 months and not with my provider (pertemps) in that time they class it from the date you were refereed to the work programme. I don’t understand how I can even be refereed when I haven’t been with my provider for 2 years madness.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

well I was fortunate to find a job last September which unfortunately ended in late march this year due to being in a car accident, before that I was enrolled with pertemps. When the job ended late march I signed back on and was put back with pertemps in June for one month before being refereed to this post work program last week. They told me I had been with my provider for 2 years even though I was working for 7 months and not with my provider (pertemps) in that time they class it from the date you were refereed to the work programme. I don’t understand how I can even be refereed when I haven’t been with my provider for 2 years madness.

No logic.... You could argue that you were only required to attend the Work Programme insofar as the Job Seekers Agreement remains in effect, and when you were offered the job in September 2012, and you signed off, you were no longer with the programme.

 

Of course, the Job Centre may have had a contract with the Work Programme Provider, but that was their business, was part of the Service Level Agreement entered into, but nothing to do with the candidate.

Edited July 10, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[Chester6]

well I was fortunate to find a job last September which unfortunately ended in late march this year due to being in a car accident, before that I was enrolled with pertemps. When the job ended late march I signed back on and was put back with pertemps in June for one month before being refereed to this post work program last week. They told me I had been with my provider for 2 years even though I was working for 7 months and not with my provider (pertemps) in that time they class it from the date you were refereed to the work programme. I don’t understand how I can even be refereed when I haven’t been with my provider for 2 years madness.

 

Because it's two years from the start date

That was my understanding of the system

[Bakatcha]

Illogical! Consider this scenario:

WP victim obtains job after first week on WP. Spends next 103 weeks in work, Then loses job.

Logically they should not then be consigned to PWPS but should return to the provider.

Unfortunately logic and the WP have very little to do with each other.

[Chester6]

Illogical! Consider this scenario:

WP victim obtains job after first week on WP. Spends next 103 weeks in work, Then loses job.

Logically they should not then be consigned to PWPS but should return to the provider.

Unfortunately logic and the WP have very little to do with each other.

 

I was told it was two years from start date

I do think they expected to have many in jobs at the end of it and not the total failure that the pimps achieved

 

At the jobcentre the lady I saw pretty much admitted they aren't impressed with the exit reports that the pimps wrote as all (thus far) have effectively said the same thing

I got told about a silly course - two week of 9-5 about managing money, more CV stuff and interview skills, apparently you get kicked out and sanctioned if you are genuinely ill which is stupid I think plus you have to be there on time , there's more computer stuff which depends on your knowledge eg basic users get a basic course and advanced get an advanced one plus they want you to wear interview clothes for one day to assess this

Plus things are more intense with attending the jobcentre when they desire eg if you get asked to do something they want you to visit the jobcentre afterwards to inform them of this

Plus I get another better off in work calculation - it's obvious that you are better off with a full time job though so some of the stuff from the jobcentre feels like they are patronising

Do I have to submit my CV again for more supposed help?

 

They are also gonna push more placements slaving labour onto me - the only good point may be the one where there's a placement that leads to a job with some academy based idea, I don't see how more works but apparently employers want people with a work history of jobs/ volunteering but these placements have never helped me and then I get the crazy interviewers

Edited July 10, 2013 by Chester6
Placement moan

[tommytech]

Illogical! Consider this scenario:

WP victim obtains job after first week on WP. Spends next 103 weeks in work, Then loses job.

Logically they should not then be consigned to PWPS but should return to the provider.

Unfortunately logic and the WP have very little to do with each other.

Agreed even the manager I spoke to understood where I was coming from but informed me the government make the rules. However I have to say I feel like im being treated unfairly as the vast majority of the people on this programme will probably have had 2 years with there provider where as i havent.

My provider even informed me before hand they was looking to put me on this programme and the programme is designed as such to make life unbearable to the point you sign of where as the government says hey we got all these people signed of back to work which just isent the case.

[TriP]

I'm about to have my "Post Work Programme Assessment" interview on the 16th and I'm extremely worried about getting sanctioned. See, the thing is (my WP provider was Ingeus), they sort of "forgot" about me for well over a year. I attended the induction and around 4-5 sessions, at which point the adviser assigned to me left. Now, I don't know if my file simply wasn't passed on to someone else or what it was, but ever since around 17 months ago I simply stopped receiving appointment letters! Now obviously, I didn't mind -- the programme was patronising and ultimately boiled down to nothing more than what I was already doing to try and find work, except it was very much out of my way (over 10 miles away), and transport costs were prohibitive -- each time I went to see them I was £7 out of pocket after what they were required to refund me, as I had to transfer twice using non-transferable tickets. I was living on £10-£15 a week, so that's just not sustainable.

 

But I digress.

 

So I wasn't about to chase THEM down for the privilege of attending their vacuous workshops. Now I find out that this "exit report" has been filed with the jobcentre, and I'm apprehensive -- I haven't attended a work programme workshop in 17 months as I was never sent any more appointments -- I hadn't been contacted at all except for the letter telling me that I'm now done with them, and didn't receive any non-attendance sanctions. Is this going to be reflected in the "report" that my DWP advisor is going to interview me about? Am I now looking at a 3 year sanction for failure to participate in the work programme??

Edited July 11, 2013 by TriP

[Chester6]

@TriP - if your pimp is like mine then you most likely have nothing to worry about

The exit report I got had zero of info about my placement or any psychological insights or attendance etc, most were the same is the impression I got from the jobcentre lady

[Mr.P]

[...] transport costs were prohibitive -- each time I went to see them I was £7 out of pocket after what they were required to refund me, as I had to transfer twice using non-transferable tickets.

 

You really should have put in a written complaint about the shortfall - DWP repeatedly state that claimants should not be out of pocket as a result of participating in the Work Programme. A year on, it would be difficult to get anything back..

 

But on a brighter note, Ingeus decided to "forget" about you, that is their problem and the consequences of that failure is between the DWP and themselves. You can not be sanctioned for their incompetence, nor should you cover for their neglect.

[Chester6]

so do I have to sign stuff and submit my CV again? can they force me to wear interview clothes?

[TriP]

@TriP - if your pimp is like mine then you most likely have nothing to worry about

The exit report I got had zero of info about my placement or any psychological insights or attendance etc, most were the same is the impression I got from the jobcentre lady

 

that puts my mind at ease a bit, thanks. still a bit worried though, the birkenhead jobcentre which i am to attend now, as my local one doesn't participate in this post-WP thing (AGAIN out of my way, but not as bad) is a notorious sanctioning machine. just last year they had someone slit their wrists on the second floor as a result of their badgering, right in front of everyone.

 

i'll try to keep my wits about me -- don't show up like a slob and be charming and they tend not to try and trick you. makes sense i guess.

[jasta11]

I'm about to have my "Post Work Programme Assessment" interview on the 16th and I'm extremely worried about getting sanctioned. See, the thing is (my WP provider was Ingeus), they sort of "forgot" about me for well over a year. I attended the induction and around 4-5 sessions, at which point the adviser assigned to me left. Now, I don't know if my file simply wasn't passed on to someone else or what it was, but ever since around 17 months ago I simply stopped receiving appointment letters! Now obviously, I didn't mind -- the programme was patronising and ultimately boiled down to nothing more than what I was already doing to try and find work, except it was very much out of my way (over 10 miles away), and transport costs were prohibitive -- each time I went to see them I was £7 out of pocket after what they were required to refund me, as I had to transfer twice using non-transferable tickets. I was living on £10-£15 a week, so that's just not sustainable.

 

But I digress.

 

So I wasn't about to chase THEM down for the privilege of attending their vacuous workshops. Now I find out that this "exit report" has been filed with the jobcentre, and I'm apprehensive -- I haven't attended a work programme workshop in 17 months as I was never sent any more appointments -- I hadn't been contacted at all except for the letter telling me that I'm now done with them, and didn't receive any non-attendance sanctions. Is this going to be reflected in the "report" that my DWP advisor is going to interview me about? Am I now looking at a 3 year sanction for failure to participate in the work programme??

 

In the WP guidance, it specifically states that the WP must 'engage with the participant' so if they haven't been contacting you, then they are at fault, not you. You are only required to engage with them when they ask you to - which you have done - and nothing more. They'll be more worried about you telling the DWP that they've ignored you.

 

As Ingeus haven't said anything about not being in touch, and the DWP haven't contacted you about it either, I'd let sleeping dogs lie and be thankful they left you alone! Of course when you return to the Jobcentre after your 2 years they'll probably ask about what you did at Ingeus so you'll just have to pad it out a little.

[LongHairedLily]

I went to sign on today and I was given my first post work programme diagnostic interview on Monday 15th. Within the letter its asks.

Please bring along details of jobs you have applied for with you, as well as any letter or anything which can show you have been looking for work.

 

Now does this mean I have to print out EVERY job application by email , Christ that 64 jobs in two weeks! Going to cost me an arm and a leg! I have all my job log search on

#UJM in the activity history, would that suffice. My advisor has advised me to just log all activity on their and don't bother with job log.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I went to sign on today and I was given my first post work programme diagnostic interview on Monday 15th. Within the letter its asks.

Please bring along details of jobs you have applied for with you, as well as any letter or anything which can show you have been looking for work.

 

Now does this mean I have to print out EVERY job application by email , Christ that 64 jobs in two weeks! Going to cost me an arm and a leg! I have all my job log search on

#UJM in the activity history, would that suffice. My advisor has advised me to just log all activity on their and don't bother with job log.

Unless you really wish to indulge the FLA within JCP....where you would provide access to your Universal Job Match Account to all and sundry, and open yourself up to being matched to non existent vacancies, and liable to a 3 year sanction, it is entirely your choice and discretion as to whether to present your normal Job Log, supported with some emails that you have sent. After all, what happens if your UJ Account has been hacked, or if the system goes down at the time of your meeting.

[LongHairedLily]

Hi Rebecca

 

I m just playing ball with them, and believe me I cover my ass on all levels regarding UJM. I spoke to the Deputy Manger today who is decent woman, showed my exit report

to here she was disgusted that after two years that was ll they could come up with and written by another unrelated non person who is in Birmingham. I need to play ball need to get the ball rolling with my business and support plus with hope will be off my back if my job interview goes well in a couple of weeks. I haven't had any issues with the local JCP till they wanted more information form the clerk, but he seems happy with my efforts. I told them of my interview offer and then subsequent retraction they too were shocked at the behaviour of the employer. As for CV my name and email are on it that all no telephone number. so hope my details are pretty safe. I applied for over 60 job in the last two weeks, now if they want to refund me the printing cost I will happily bring them along..lol

[joeski]

surprised it has lasted 2 years, its the biggest load of rubbish ive ever known!

[jasta11]

Hi Rebecca

 

I m just playing ball with them, and believe me I cover my ass on all levels regarding UJM. I spoke to the Deputy Manger today who is decent woman, showed my exit report

to here she was disgusted that after two years that was ll they could come up with and written by another unrelated non person who is in Birmingham. I need to play ball need to get the ball rolling with my business and support plus with hope will be off my back if my job interview goes well in a couple of weeks. I haven't had any issues with the local JCP till they wanted more information form the clerk, but he seems happy with my efforts. I told them of my interview offer and then subsequent retraction they too were shocked at the behaviour of the employer. As for CV my name and email are on it that all no telephone number. so hope my details are pretty safe. I applied for over 60 job in the last two weeks, now if they want to refund me the printing cost I will happily bring them along..lol

 

Put all your applications on a memory stick and ask for them to be printed out on the Jobcentre's own IADcomputers, which they're supposed to provide access to for those without the necessary gear at home. If you have an E-Book or similar you could also show them on that.

 

Make sure you give them more than they ask for, that's always the best way to stay ahead of the game

[LongHairedLily]

Put all your applications on a memory stick and ask for them to be printed out on the Jobcentre's own IADcomputers, which they're supposed to provide access to for those without the necessary gear at home. If you have an E-Book or similar you could also show them on that.

 

Make sure you give them more than they ask for, that's always the best way to stay ahead of the game

 

 

Hi Jasta

 

I tried to put the application confirmations on a memory stick but there's no facility on right click of mouse. The only thing I can do it put my application confirmations in a separate folder and allow her to read them at the office on the IAD. I am not spending best part of £10 to print off the last two weeks of applications and confirmations of applications the jobs sites send. !! Not made of money!!lol

 

I tried to

[Mr.P]

I am not spending best part of £10 to print off the last two weeks of applications and confirmations of applications the jobs sites send. !! Not made of money!!lol

 

From Universal Jobmatch Toolkit as at 05 03 13:

82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.

Reviewing jobsearch activity - claimant using Universal Jobmatch (DWP has access to their account)

86. You will look at any number or all of the following screens/pages from the claimant’s Universal Jobmatch account:

 

• Activity History.
  
• Application History.
  
• Alerts.
  
• Messages.
  
• Saved Jobs.
  
• Recommended Jobs.
  
• Saved Searches.
  

Reviewing jobsearch activity - claimant using Universal Jobmatch (No DWP access to their account)

87. You may ask claimants to show:

 

• prints of any number or all of the screens/pages detailed in the paragraph 86 from their Universal Jobmatch account. However, this will not be possible for claimants who do not have access to a printer or cannot afford to print out copies of these pages; or
  
• any number or all of the screens/pages detailed in the paragraph 86 from their Universal Jobmatch account if they have access to the internet on a smartphone. Districts will need to consider the guidance on Restricted Use of Electronic Media in Jobcentres although paragraph 7 in this guidance enables offices to allow claimants to use their mobiles for this purpose.
  

88. If it is not possible for the claimant to do any of the above, or the claimant does not wish to accept cookies and so needs to use a DWP IAD, you must tell them they have to login to their account from an available IAD in your office and provide evidence of the jobsearch activity they have carried out or recorded in their account, e.g. by printing off copies of these screens/pages.

 

Reviewing jobsearch activity - claimant not using Universal Jobmatch

89. In cases where a claimant is not using Universal Jobmatch, they will show the steps they can be reasonably expected to take to actively seek work that can give them the best prospects of employment, through other means.

90. In these cases, you will review a claimant’s jobsearch activity using the evidence they provide as described in paragraph 83.

[LongHairedLily]

From Universal Jobmatch Toolkit as at 05 03 13:

 

They can look at a folder within my Hotmail I have moved all application confirmations and emailed direct to employer applications. But I don't want them hanging around my computer whilst I log in! In any case all this banging on about how we should be going digital and all information being held on computer, they shouldn't requesting printed copies of application-they want to make their bl@@dy minds up!

[RebeccaPidgeon]

They can look at a folder within my Hotmail I have moved all application confirmations and emailed direct to employer applications. But I don't want them hanging around my computer whilst I log in! In any case all this banging on about how we should be going digital and all information being held on computer, they shouldn't requesting printed copies of application-they want to make their bl@@dy minds up!

Hotmail is a good idea.... a free email facility which is notorious for distributing computer viruses to the unwary.

Edited July 12, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[san_d]

Put all your applications on a memory stick and ask for them to be printed out on the Jobcentre's own IADcomputers, which they're supposed to provide access to for those without the necessary gear at home.

Do they allow free printing?

[LongHairedLily]

Interested to know, what with my Post Work Programme appointment on Monday (bloody quick, as I only finished with Ingeus yesterday). has anyone during the first appointment been mandated to do unpaid work?