Marstons breaking the law?

[Ozzippo]

Hi, i'm new to this site but ive followed on twitter for a while, sorry if this is a bit long but i want to get all the details out.

 

I had a visit from 2 Marstons enforcement oficers yesterday (18/2/13).

 

I was at work when they turned up & the vehicle passenger knocked on my front door,

after a minute the passenger knocked again,

during this period they noticed i had a camera mounted on the front of my house & took a lot of interest as to what area it covered,

they obviously did'nt realise that i have another hidden one covering the front door.

 

A neighbour across the road was watching them & witnessed what the driver did,

he looked around to see if he was being watched, (not very good observation skills)

then he tried opening my front door by pushing down on the handle.

 

Luckily for him it was locked as i was at work, but i have a dog & he does'nt take kindly to strangers on my property, they would have clearly heard him barking.

 

They then posted a letter through my door & drove around the back of my house,

the passenger came in through closed back gates & looked through my kitchen window

& i cant see if he tried my back door but he did notice the cameras i have covering the back of the house, on his way out.

 

My neighbour rang me & later that day i came home & found one of their letters through my door,

it was for my ex-girlfriend who no longer lives with me but the dog had ripped the envelope so i got their details from the letter.

 

I rang the EO's mobile phone & left a voicemail for them to come back & see me as i had something to discuss with them.

Needless to say they did'nt.

 

I also rang Marstons but the woman was oh so unhelpful, siting Data Protection.

 

I rang the EO again this morning & managed to speak to him,

he was the one i have on CCTV attempting to gain entry to my property,

 

i asked him to come back today to try my front door handle again as i was in this time

but he waffled on that they did'nt need to come back as they had established that the person named on the letter did'nt live here,

 

when i questioned him as to why he tried opening my door,

he said he was allowed to force entry to the property as he was executing a Court Warrant !!!!!

 

If that's the case, why did'nt they force entry when i was'nt there & have the run of my house.

 

I have got the contact details of the HMCTS enforcement officer for my area (thanks to other peoples threads for that info)

 

I rang Marstons today for this EO's SIA badge number as i have his surname but need his badge number to complain to the SIA, they hung up on me HAHA.

 

I have just now got off the phone to the EO that attempted to break into my home,

i was very civil & told him i was recording the call & had a witness listening,

 

i asked him for his SIA badge number, which under SIA guidelines, he can't refuse to give me,

i know this as ive been a doorman for 7 years,

 

he told me 2 things,

1 - he does'nt give me permission to use the recording &

2 - he does'nt have a SIA licence, even though i pointed out i could see it on the CCTV hanging around his neck by a thin blue lanyard.

 

Where do i go from here,

 

thaks in advance

[dx100uk]

there is no law which states an HCEO cannot try doors

and if open gain entry.

 

dx

[Ozzippo]

Oh so he was fully within his rights to try my door handle even though they had kocked & knew i was'nt in. Are you sure, remember the named person does'nt live here anymore, but they did'nt know that at the time.

[dx100uk]

then they have done nothing wrong

 

a bailiff can enter through unlocked or open doors and windows

 

dx

[Guest]

do they not have to make sure the person they are in pursuit of does live at the property before trying door handles etc? seems they found this out after the visit?...had the door been unlocked .?... crazy world.

[Ozzippo]

Im sorry dx but by what authority do you speak from, as ive spoken to others about this & im getting the same answer, until they establish that the person named on their paperwork lives at the address, which they seemingly now know that she does'nt, they have no lawful entry onto the private premises of an address.

[Ozzippo]

The reason i'm sceptical about your comments dx is that ive heard Marstons have people watching this site, maybe commenting too, to put people off. But the main reason is, not even a police officer is allowed to try opening my front door unless he believes a crime is being committed or to prevent one from happening, are you saying that Bailliffs have more powers than the police ?

[dx100uk]

i think the point that needs proving is should they have done their homework first.

to prove the debtor lives there?

 

not after...opps..

 

the other ofcourse is what would they have done if it were open?

 

and no they cannot force entry on res premesis.

 

but my answer was in relation to the thread title

 

as it appears

they did not break the law

nor did they bully you

 

you are simply upset they tried you door handle.

 

mistake not to check debtors address

but unlawful...

 

dx

[tomtubby]

Ozzippo

 

I have read your post with interest. Firstly, it is the case that a bailiff can gain "peaceful entry" into a property to enforce a Warrant of Execution for an unpaid County Court Judgment, a Liability Order in respect of unpaid council tax or a Distress Warrant for an unpaid magistrate court fine.

 

"Peaceful entry" can be through an open window or an unlocked door. In your case, it would seem that the bailiff may well have been trying to see whether the door was unlocked. If so, this is perfectly acceptable and is NOT against the law. The criteria needs to be that the bailiff has "good reason" to believe that the debtor occupies that particular property.

 

I am very pleased indeed to hear that the bailiff has accepted that your ex partner no longer lives at the property. This will normally mean that the warrant will be returned back to the court.

 

On the matter of an SIA Licence, I am sorry but when enforcing a COURT order there is NO requirement for the bailiff to hold an SIA licence. As an SIA licence holder yourself, I am sure that you will have contact details with the Security Industry Authority who will confirm the position.

 

I do not want to appear critical but "inviting" the bailiff back to your house to " try the front door handle again" would not seem a wise thing to do and could be interpreted as trying to cause controversy.

 

HMCTS have Contract Managers and these individuals deal with serious complaints. Although your experience was upsetting I do not think that it is matter is serious enough. However, this is only my personal opinion.

 

Lastly, you appear to have received conflicting advice from other sources (which I assume is another forum). Without naming names there are a number of forums that provide incorrect and misleading information. It you require CORRECT information, it would be better to post on Consumer Action.

[renegadeimp]

If the HCEO ( providing they are actually a HCEO and not a regular bailiff) has a warrant from the court, then they have no reason to assume that the person does not live there. Of course, they should be making enquiries beforehand to confirm, but they rarely do, as they can take the warrant to be legit and accurate.

[Ozzippo]

Aha....... thankyou, i am not upset, i dont get upset, i get sweet revenge & it takes many legal forms. Also i did'nt say they bullied me, ive had dealing with many many people in my line of work & never been bullied. So they can't force entry into private premises but they can try door handles, isn't that a form of gaining un-authorised entry, or in legal terms, if the door had been open, burglary, also when they established there was nobody home, they still remises through the back gate. Also what about him saying they can force entry into my home & denying he has an SIA licence, which i know he has to have to work as a Bailliff, why deny giving me his SIA licence number, whats he afraid of, i only want to report him but if he's done nothing illegal. I have him clear as day looking around to see if anyone is watching him before he tries opening my front door, the same look shoplifters have, i know, ive been in the Military & security industry most of my working life.

[BankFodder]

I think that you have done very well. Congrats on the cameras - and I expect that it has helped your situation. I think that you made a mistake by giving a warning that you were recording the call..

 

Please do heed the advice and opinions given on this thread. These people do know what they are talking about.

[josephbloggs]

Bailiffs have to have a bailiff certificate they do not have to have an sia badge

[sgtbush]

Ozzippo

 

I have read your post with interest. Firstly, it is the case that a bailiff can gain "peaceful entry" into a property to enforce a Warrant of Execution for an unpaid County Court Judgment, a Liability Order in respect of unpaid council tax or a Distress Warrant for an unpaid magistrate court fine.

 

"Peaceful entry" can be through an open window or an unlocked door. In your case, it would seem that the bailiff may well have been trying to see whether the door was unlocked. If so, this is perfectly acceptable and is NOT against the law. The criteria needs to be that the bailiff has "good reason" to believe that the debtor occupies that particular property.

 

I am very pleased indeed to hear that the bailiff has accepted that your ex partner no longer lives at the property. This will normally mean that the warrant will be returned back to the court.

 

On the matter of an SIA Licence, I am sorry but when enforcing a COURT order there is NO requirement for the bailiff to hold an SIA licence. As an SIA licence holder yourself, I am sure that you will have contact details with the Security Industry Authority who will confirm the position.

 

I do not want to appear critical but "inviting" the bailiff back to your house to " try the front door handle again" would not seem a wise thing to do and could be interpreted as trying to cause controversy.

 

HMCTS have Contract Managers and these individuals deal with serious complaints. Although your experience was upsetting I do not think that it is matter is serious enough. However, this is only my personal opinion.

 

Lastly, you appear to have received conflicting advice from other sources (which I assume is another forum). Without naming names there are a number of forums that provide incorrect and misleading information. It you require CORRECT information, it would be better to post on Consumer Action.

 

 

thank you tomtubby, saves me typing out the same infomation

[sgtbush]

Aha....... thankyou, i am not upset, i dont get upset, i get sweet revenge & it takes many legal forms. Also i did'nt say they bullied me, ive had dealing with many many people in my line of work & never been bullied. So they can't force entry into private premises but they can try door handles, isn't that a form of gaining un-authorised entry, or in legal terms, if the door had been open, burglary, also when they established there was nobody home, they still remises through the back gate. Also what about him saying they can force entry into my home & denying he has an SIA licence, which i know he has to have to work as a Bailliff, why deny giving me his SIA licence number, whats he afraid of, i only want to report him but if he's done nothing illegal. I have him clear as day looking around to see if anyone is watching him before he tries opening my front door, the same look shoplifters have, i know, ive been in the Military & security industry most of my working life.

 

i STRONGLY suggest you review where you got this infomation from as it is incorrect

 

bailiffs do not require a SIA licence

they can try to open doorsif they gain entry it is implied access and you nor the police can remove them, its not burgulary

their is a court warrant issued for the person

the warrant allows them forced entry if needed but this is rarely used and just to be safe they prob would need to seek the courts permission to execute this. remember this is a warrant

they can do a search for the person, assets of chattles for siezure and removal.

 

be thankful that it is an ex partner(i think was mentioned) and they have taken this info on board

they will return the warrant to the court as no longer at this address and the court will do futhur searches for the person, most likely a DWP and equita search

Edited February 19, 2013 by sgtbush

[outlawla]

Whether or not the door was unlocked I can't see how the bailiff had any right to try the door. The only reason he'd want to do this would be to gain access.

 

Two scenarios:

 

The bailiff knocked on the front door. There was at least two attempts to make contact with someone in occupancy. It would therefore have been known he wasn't going to gain peaceful entry, either because the occupier had no intention of letting him in, or on the other hand, nobody was home so should have assumed the door would be locked.

Edited February 19, 2013 by outlawla

[brassnecked]

Whatever the numpty claims you don't need his permission to record a phone call, nor to film him. You can post his visit on Youtube if you wish, and there is diddly squat he can do in reality.