Rossendales + CTAX benefit overpayment:Vunerable Ex forces with PTSS- help

[Surfer01]

The onus for repaying over payments made directly to a land lord is on the claimant, the LL actually claims nothing at any time.

 

OP does state that the person in question notified the HB of change of address, therefore benefits section have made an official mistake by continuing to pay and either write it off or chase LL. See Part 13 section 100 Hopefully this is what OP needs to know.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This is not helping the veteran, and is why I have asked his representative to contact me directly to avoid supposition and guess work, then he can be given the help he deserves, until I have the data first hand I'' l leave you to arue amongst your selves.

[Surfer01]

This is not helping the veteran, and is why I have asked his representative to contact me directly to avoid supposition and guess work, then he can be given the help he deserves, until I have the data first hand I'' l leave you to arue amongst your selves.

 

Please point out where I have made suppositions and guess work.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I did not mention anyone by name!!!!

[Surfer01]

I did not mention anyone by name!!!!

 

You constantly having a go at my posts and other people so I have to assume you are having another go at me as it came immediately after I posted! Was the info in my last post #26 correct or incorrect? You are supposed to be part of the site team and offer advice and not try and to belittle every one else. This has also occurred with other posters and not just me!

[brassnecked]

Surfer01 I don't think Brig is having a pop just that there are specifics in this case that are best addressed by a specialised advisor from a service charity, as they are used to the issues that arise around veterans with ptsd, and consequences of homelessness and hostels. Some of the tried and trusted doesn't work in these situations, so I think we need to trust the Brigadier on this one, in fact I suggested service charity intervention at the beginning of the thread..

[1Loretta]

I worked for over 20 years as a social worker dealing mainly with homelessness and domestic violence, this always involved HB and I do know about it

[brassnecked]

I worked for over 20 years as a social worker dealing mainly with homelessness and domestic violence, this always involved HB and I do know about it

I think this veteran will need all the help he can get with tossendales snapping at his throat.

[1Loretta]

I have received so much help on here I hope one day I will be able to help someone with something I know about. I am sure some sort of service charity will know exactly how to deal with this and the other particular problems that ex service people have too. Good luck with this

[shylass]

Good luck with this

 

 

Many thanks Loretta and thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have passed all your replies on to my friend, and he really appreciates all your comments. He said he will be going straight to the CAB tomorrow morning to see if they can help deal with this for him. As for the housing benefit overpayment, this is being dealt with by a solicitor, who unfortunately cannot deal with the overpayment of council tax benefit. Indeed when he went to stay at the Salvation Army hostel the project worker got in touch with the benefits section to let them know that he had moved on from his old address and was now resident in the hostel in a completely different city and that he would be making a fresh claim to enable him to pay for lodgings in the SA hostel. We have both being going through some paperwork that we received from the housing benefit section in preparation for a tribunal to get the rent overpayment back. It appears we have found some discrepancies. On one sheet of paper it clearly states that the benefits office had a telephone call from his project worker pointing out that he had left the old address and was now residing at the SA hostel. On another sheet of paper it states a list of all the payments that were sent to the landlord and these were indeed paid to him for at least six months after he had left the property. It was only when the benefits section received an undelivered letter from Royal Mail saying 'addressee had gone' away that the council had realised that he had been overpaid these benefits.

 

I will let you know what the CAB have to say about this and also what happens at the tribunal (date unknown as yet) for the rent overpayment. I hope that he gets this sorted out as he is not at fault with this and at least there is some proof as to the council making a blunder.

[postggj]

asking a stupid question

 

liability orders were mentioned

 

are not liability orders not issued for non payment of council tax to the local authority

 

if their has been an over payment of housing benefit, would that not be a civil matter between the local authority and the landlord with the housing benefit

 

council tax benefit would be no problem to resolve

 

so how can a liability order be issued for an overpayment

 

i would like to know the answer, me thinks the bailiffs are only acting in a debt collecting capacity so confirmation of any liability order needs to be confirmed with the local authority

[ploddertom]

Has any progress been made on this yet?

[seanamarts]

The LL was obviously a bit of a rogue and it is quite possible he pocketed the money himself hoping he would get away with this.

 

This should be easy to solve, if the OP can find any proof at all that her friend was not living in the area. I can understand that he was homeless for a while and finding proof could cause a problem.

 

I know this has been said before but this guy is classed as vulnerable and Rossers should stay away.

 

You need to let the council know this asap. Just send them a copy of the National Standards. I think some one has already posted it up.

 

Please keep us updated and we shall help where ever we can.

[brassnecked]

Definitely vulnerable, I posted the national Standards up @ post #13, mind you i wouldn't put it past rossers to try to levy a park bench a homeless person was sitting on if they traced them to it.

[shylass]

This should be easy to solve, if the OP can find any proof at all that her friend was not living in the area. I can understand that he was homeless for a while and finding proof could cause a problem.

 

My friend has been to the CAB who are now going to be dealing with his situation. As far as proof is concerned, he managed to find some documentation from the Salvation Army to suggest he was residing at the hostel (a licence). The CAB rang the council while he was listening to the conversation and it appears that they overpaid council tax as they didn't know whether he would be returning to the property, even though he did inform them that he wasn't. I feel this is a strange thing to do as he had made a fresh claim when he went to stay with the hostel as this was a requirement to enable the SA to get rent from him. Why would the council pay his rent and council tax knowing that he was residing somewhere else? Surely you cannot claim for two rents and council taxes at once. Why would someone go to reside at the Salvation Army if they intended going back to the place where they live? Doesn't make sense to me, or am I missing something here? I just think the council are just making excuses for their errors.

 

CAB have written and faxed a letter across explaining everything and providing all the evidence my friend had. The CAB said that hopefully Rossendales will now back off until this whole situation is sorted out. Thanks for your support peeps, very much appreciated.

[brassnecked]

"I just think the council are just making excuses for their errors."

 

I agree with that one shylass, looks like another council screw up

 

There we have it, they were informed but chose to carry on paying benefit, having subsequently discovered their error they thought oops we must chase the ex serviceman with Rossers finest and get the money back after all we are the council and we can do what we want. They should withdraw all action imho

[Integrity matters]

Hello Shylass

Some good advice already imparted hope it is useful for your friend

- Salvation Army, Royal British Legion and Soldiers Sailors Air Force Families Association (SSAFFA) these organisations will be of immense help in sorting this out.

 

 

On the actual situation of the Bailiff your friend IS NOT LEGALLY required to deal with them in any context whatsoever even IF he owes this alledged overpayment.

What that means is your friend does not have to communicate with them through any medium whatsoever.

 

They only have a Levy if they gain entry to his dwelling and they can only do that through PEACEFUL and LEGAL means.

 

They have no WARRANT of ENTRY and CANNOT get one for this matter.

 

They are not allowed to overstate their authority with threats of the police.

 

You do not even have to open the door and even if you did it would be illegal for them force their way past.

 

They can only enter your property if they are invited in by an adult that adult does not have to be you,

or if you leave a window open they can climb through it, or an unlocked door.

They must leave immediately if the only person inside is, or appears to be under 18 years

and if a child under 12 is present they cannot enter under any circumstances whatsoever.

 

Also as mentioned by other contributors their code of conduct requires them to take into consideration the vulnerability of those they deal with,

they have a duty of care as do the council.

 

They may leave paperwork claiming walking possession and asking you to sign it and return it,

but this is null and void unless they have gained PEACEFUL and LEGAL entry.

 

They cannot levy anything by listing what you tell them you have, or by looking through the windows. (See Mrs Evans v South Ribble Council )

 

However your friend must do something he cannot simply ignore this so those organisations mentioned at the begining are his best option.

 

Should he be responsible to repay this he still does not have to pay it through the Bailiff,

 

he can pay direct to the council they will not and cannot refuse.

 

Finally if this benefit was being paid direct to the landlord then the landlord has to pay it back either directly to the council, or via your friend.

 

Hope this helps

Edited January 17, 2013 by Integrity matters

[seanamarts]

Im glad there has been some progress, looks like the council have cocked up again, they cannot get at the LL because he is locked up, so they go after the next best thing.

 

I hope a complaint is sent to the council. The CAB can also contact the welfare section of Rossendales who will cease all bailiff action. I can give details if needed.

[shylass]

Hello Shylass

Some good advice already imparted hope it is useful for your friend

- Salvation Army, Royal British Legion and Soldiers Sailors Air Force Families Association (SSAFFA) these organisations will be of immense help in sorting this out.

 

 

On the actual situation of the Bailiff your friend IS NOT LEGALLY required to deal with them in any context whatsoever even IF he owes this alledged overpayment.

What that means is your friend does not have to communicate with them through any medium whatsoever.

 

They only have a Levy if they gain entry to his dwelling and they can only do that through PEACEFUL and LEGAL means.

 

They have no WARRANT of ENTRY and CANNOT get one for this matter.

 

They are not allowed to overstate their authority with threats of the police.

 

You do not even have to open the door and even if you did it would be illegal for them force their way past.

 

They can only enter your property if they are invited in by an adult that adult does not have to be you,

or if you leave a window open they can climb through it, or an unlocked door.

They must leave immediately if the only person inside is, or appears to be under 18 years

and if a child under 12 is present they cannot enter under any circumstances whatsoever.

 

Also as mentioned by other contributors their code of conduct requires them to take into consideration the vulnerability of those they deal with,

they have a duty of care as do the council.

 

They may leave paperwork claiming walking possession and asking you to sign it and return it,

but this is null and void unless they have gained PEACEFUL and LEGAL entry.

 

They cannot levy anything by listing what you tell them you have, or by looking through the windows. (See Mrs Evans v South Ribble Council )

 

However your friend must do something he cannot simply ignore this so those organisations mentioned at the begining are his best option.

 

Should he be responsible to repay this he still does not have to pay it through the Bailiff,

 

he can pay direct to the council they will not and cannot refuse.

 

Finally if this benefit was being paid direct to the landlord then the landlord has to pay it back either directly to the council, or via your friend.

 

Hope this helps

 

Some very useful information here. I must say I didn't realise about not having to pay it through the bailiff. I was under the impression that if the council refused to take the debt back then there was no choice but to pay it back through the bailiff. Not heard anything since from the bailiffs. They said they would return within five days after last visit, which would have meant them coming back on Monday or Tuesday 14th/15th (depending on whether they count weekends) so hopefully the CAB have managed to put a stop to it for the time being at least.

[seanamarts]

You can pay any money owed straight to the council using their on line payment facility, you would need the ref number for the year the debt accrued. You would either find this on any bailiff paper work or on that years bill, alternatively you can call the benefits and revenues department at the council from who the debt is with.

[Integrity matters]

Some very useful information here. I must say I didn't realise about not having to pay it through the bailiff. I was under the impression that if the council refused to take the debt back then there was no choice but to pay it back through the bailiff. Not heard anything since from the bailiffs. They said they would return within five days after last visit, which would have meant them coming back on Monday or Tuesday 14th/15th (depending on whether they count weekends) so hopefully the CAB have managed to put a stop to it for the time being at least.

 

I glimpsed something earlier that referred to a liability order in a reply.

 

It is common for liability orders to be passed to bailiffs, but these relate only to the COUNCIL TAX component of HOUSING BENEFIT.

 

A liability order is a magistrate court agreeing that the information presented to it deems a person, or persons are liable to payment of council tax.

 

IT IS NOT A WARRANT OF ENTRY, but just an order to pay.

 

The bailiffs powers of entry in respect of one of these are the same as I posted earlier.

 

One thing I forgot to mention in that post is that the Bailiff can only take items and property owned by the person/s concerned.

 

THEY CANNOT TAKE THINGS RENTED, OR ON HIRE PURCHASE and a host of other things are also excluded like tools of a tradesman etc.

 

How and who you pay these 'outstanding monies' to is entirely up to you.

 

Even if the council have refused to take it's liability order, or county court judgement back they are not allowed to refuse to accept monies offered at their offices,

or through other payment means.

 

All you need is a reference number / council tax number, or your name and the address and the year/s to which the overpayment relates to.

 

(BEWARE that bailiffs operating in different circumstances i.e. in pursuit of court fines, or on behalf of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs

have a different remit of enforcment which can involve A WARRANT OF ENTRY and then there are High Court Writs and Sheriffs)

[Classic-car-lover]

The tools thing is interesting thankyou .