Is the bank taking your Benefits ?

[MARTIN3030]

We have requested on the 21st july by letter that Nationwide look at repaying our charges due to the financial hardship we are experiencing,they sent out inbcoming/outgoings form(even though we included that info by means our debt management plan from the CAB with the letter).We phoned Nationwide explaining that they already have the information but they wanted to know why and how long we have been experiencing hardship.

We provided the information and expected that,as they state in their letter,a full response by the 23rd of August.We sitll haven't received any response from Nationwide and was wondering if anyone from CAG could help draft a letter to get things moving again,any offers?

 

 

Ok something done for you.

[Grantyy]

Hi, I have only just realised this great site and this helpful thread, I have skimmed through the best I can although there is a fair bit to take in. My situation is that I am on benefits and the only money that has entered my account in the last 4 months has been JSA yet I have been hit with so many charges which accounts for the majority of that money, I now understand how to stop the banks taking more but what I am not sure about is if I can claim the other charges back as afterall they have broken the law and taken my benefit payments regardless if it was last week or last year, right? I was previously unwell and these charges have caused me a lot of trouble with morgage payments and other outstanding bills, if I could claim my charges back for the last few months or even longer that would go someway to straightening up my finances though thankfully and coincidentally I have just landed a job with the DWP, thanks in advance for your help.

[Kay_Bee_]

Hello

 

Just wanted to report on what happened at the bank when I took in the letter.

 

The lady I spoke to was very nice and helpful, she took my phone number to call me with a decision. No one phoned though.

 

The charge came out of my account on the Wednesday so I thought the letter hadn't worked.

 

Then on Friday I got the charges back!

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

I received a letter stating that as this was my first charge, they would waive the charge but future charges will remain. That's fine with me, it won't happen again and....I got my money back without too much of a fight....excellent!

 

Thank you again

[Grantyy]

Well I have just called the DWP and they are going to call me back more than likely to change the destination of the payment, not holding my breath on any help recovering recent charges though, the guy did say whoever calls me will know much more than him.

 

Then I called Natwest and the guy I spoke to said that it is not against the law for them to take charges from my benefits, he seemed so sure of that, I said so I can't stop you taking charges even if I send a letter, he said no the charges will stand unfortunately, he said it may be different if you claim hardship, to which I said well my mortgage payment is almost what I receive from the DWP wach month, he then mentioned that there was a couple of betting transactions on my account and said that it's difficult to prove hardship with these showing on my statement, is he right, I had one £10 football bet at the beggining of the season, and transferred £10 to my poker account about 4 months ago for my girlfried who is working and she uses my poker account now and then though we don't live together, he then asked when I would be back in work and that he'll get somebody to call me to help me with my account so we can try to avoid any charges up until I have a regular income. I know I can still send the letter (right of appropriation) at the front of this forum but I guess all of those charges on my benefits could be lost? I do have the standard charges claim in waiting for the courts decision though.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Grantyy

[InformedSearcher]

Well I have just called the DWP and they are going to call me back more than likely to change the destination of the payment, not holding my breath on any help recovering recent charges though, the guy did say whoever calls me will know much more than him.

 

Then I called Natwest and the guy I spoke to said that it is not against the law for them to take charges from my benefits, he seemed so sure of that, I said so I can't stop you taking charges even if I send a letter, he said no the charges will stand unfortunately, he said it may be different if you claim hardship, to which I said well my mortgage payment is almost what I receive from the DWP wach month, he then mentioned that there was a couple of betting transactions on my account and said that it's difficult to prove hardship with these showing on my statement, is he right, I had one £10 football bet at the beggining of the season, and transferred £10 to my poker account about 4 months ago for my girlfried who is working and she uses my poker account now and then though we don't live together, he then asked when I would be back in work and that he'll get somebody to call me to help me with my account so we can try to avoid any charges up until I have a regular income. I know I can still send the letter (right of appropriation) at the front of this forum but I guess all of those charges on my benefits could be lost? I do have the standard charges claim in waiting for the courts decision though.

 

He is right in so much as an excuse not to accept a hardship claim! They will look carefully at ALL expenditure in the previous 3 months. It should be noted that there is absolutely nothing to force them to pay you back any charges under a hardship claim. They might say they follow rules but in fact it's purely 'voluntary' and with the current 'stay' in place not much you can do if they refuse. Financial institutions are not bothered about bad publicity as long as it does not get reported on national television. They have enough complaints about themselves that any half decent company would have removed all of its directors for allowing themselves to be exposed to the such.

Try to avoid giving too many details on your calls. Just a tip because banks are cunning in extracting details about you. A simple 'work' number if they want to contact you can lead to (if something falters) a call making you feel uneasy taking it at a place of employment.

 

Michael

[heinov]

I have currently no monies going into my Lloyds account other than £136ish Child Benefit.

I had cancelled all DDs & SOs already.

However, the bank keeps charging me £156 per month for a DD they say I can't cancel - it's of course for their very own credit card.

So for months now that bank charge is eating up the benefits.

Lloyds have taken the CC account off my online banking - it's not there anymore, presumably because it's in default. I have started reclaimng my bank charges also under the hardship rule. I have also asked them not to keep charging me in the future. Both requests have been rejected, they say I'm not in hardship and they further say I agreed to the charges when I first signed up for the account. Standard initial response.

I'm just about to send off the second letter proving hardship (not least through their very own credit card & account).

But my question in this forum is if the right of appropriation applies to the Child Benefit and, if yes, can I claim back some of that benefit also in retrospect?

Many thanks

[InformedSearcher]

I have currently no monies going into my Lloyds account other than £136ish Child Benefit.

I had cancelled all DDs & SOs already.

However, the bank keeps charging me £156 per month for a DD they say I can't cancel - it's of course for their very own credit card.

So for months now that bank charge is eating up the benefits.

Lloyds have taken the CC account off my online banking - it's not there anymore, presumably because it's in default. I have started reclaimng my bank charges also under the hardship rule. I have also asked them not to keep charging me in the future. Both requests have been rejected, they say I'm not in hardship and they further say I agreed to the charges when I first signed up for the account. Standard initial response.

I'm just about to send off the second letter proving hardship (not least through their very own credit card & account).

But my question in this forum is if the right of appropriation applies to the Child Benefit and, if yes, can I claim back some of that benefit also in retrospect?

Many thanks

 

My apologies for my shouting - THEY CANNOT JUST REFUSE TO CANCEL THEIR OWN DIRECT DEBIT! Okay here goes (and a thank you again to 'citizenb' for the info I got). Under the direct debit guarantee they cannot refuse to remove their own and charge you for it in prference to others. In my personal case 'they' cancelled all but their own. Your defence to this is simply that you considered it wise to alleviate further charges by taking the action yourself (and that's a plus point LOL). I'm taking it that the £156 is the actual CC request rather that bank charges for not being able to take it? I'm also assuming when they cannot take it they are charging you fees for this?

 

Banking association link: BBA – British Bankers' Association - Direct Debit Guarantee

FOS Link: issue 27 - banking - direct debit guarantee

A very nice CAG link (here): http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/119369-direct-debit-guarantee.html

...right that should now mean that if they attempted to extract funds (having refused to remove the D/D) then there's 99% chance of all the charges AFAIK on that part being refunded.

 

I personally would have a word with the DWP regarding benefits. I doubt the bank will treat them (but you never know as they believe they can ride roughshod over everyone) as they did you. I think my previous posts should cover the rest.

 

Hope this has been of some help.

Michael

[citizenB]

LOL, heinov.. I saw this and raced over to tell you exactly what InformedSearcher has told you.

 

HSBC cannot refuse to cancel the Direct Debit Guarantee in favour of themselves.

 

You must write to them advising that not only do you want it cancelled as per the Direct Debit Guarantee scheme they have signed up to, but any charges applied to your account in respect of the abuse of this facility are to be reimbursed immediately along with any interest they have applied to those charges.

 

If they do not comply with this request within 14 days (if posted) or 7 days if taken into the branch then you will be reporting them to both the Financial Ombudsman and the Financial Services Authority.

 

I would also suggest you make arrangements for your benefits to go into another account with another bank.

 

HTH

[heinov]

Thanks for that - will look it up.

Just to clarify: the £156 is for unplanned overdraft, once they try to take the payment, and after they return it it's actually another £40 for Returned DD.

This is charges only - not CC interest and capital...

[InformedSearcher]

Just about a new account set up - like a basic (cash) account.

LloydsTSB and the Co-Op open accounts on the phone with a zero opening balance and it takes normally 5 - 10 minutes. The Co-Op will ask for your NI number too.

They will however in all probability disclose information to CRA's and that will mean that any beady eyed bank you've fallen out with will know where you've moved to if they check (and it'll show in the searches). I believe that the only reason even basic accounts are on CRA's is both to avoid fraud and ahem if you attempt to become overdrawn with them.

Michael

[Hacked_Off]

hmmmmmm i sent tis to halifax. They chargedme a month ago for there mistake They just keep repeating the impending high court case at me and refuse to accept they left me with nothing.I also spoke to the DWP who told me "theres nothing we can do"

[InformedSearcher]

hmmmmmm i sent tis to halifax. They chargedme a month ago for there mistake They just keep repeating the impending high court case at me and refuse to accept they left me with nothing.I also spoke to the DWP who told me "theres nothing we can do"

 

....and I'm afraid that's the voluntary things as banks use and see them (to their advantage). The DWP could well have suggested something but as I've dealt with them, they have no interest and their interest does not surprise me.

However a visit to a branch and a face to face talk might be a good idea. If you find things not going your way and they will not budge then you can always resort to the 'raised voice' method when stating they have stolen your benefits. If there's one thing a bank dislikes it's that of others hearing how they treat people. You could of course refuse to leave the bank unless they refund your money as a last resort.

It's quite ironic that taxpayers money supported the bank only to find the same taxpayers money is charged in fees. Again it comes down to what's fair and what's not fair and who decides and in this case it's the bank themselves!

I can still remember a few years ago when a bank upset someone. They took legal action and the court was in their favour. As the respective bank did not conform the baliffs arrived and began removing items - they conformed within a few minutes after that. Wish I knew where the story was now.

Michael

(having flashbacks of his DWP under caution interview)

[starinhersky]

hi this happens to me all the time i am currently trying to claim back all chrges made to my account although its proving tough they are trying to put me in the long que waitng like evrybody else moneys tight any suggestions?

[babybear39]

Ask your MP for help

[MARTIN3030]

Hi, I have only just realised this great site and this helpful thread, I have skimmed through the best I can although there is a fair bit to take in. My situation is that I am on benefits and the only money that has entered my account in the last 4 months has been JSA yet I have been hit with so many charges which accounts for the majority of that money, I now understand how to stop the banks taking more but what I am not sure about is if I can claim the other charges back as afterall they have broken the law and taken my benefit payments regardless if it was last week or last year, right? I was previously unwell and these charges have caused me a lot of trouble with morgage payments and other outstanding bills, if I could claim my charges back for the last few months or even longer that would go someway to straightening up my finances though thankfully and coincidentally I have just landed a job with the DWP, thanks in advance for your help.

 

 

Welcome to the site Grant.

You are certainly free to go for all charges-since you have now started work it may be difficult to file a complaint with the FOS for hardship.

You need to file a claim in Court ASAP.

If you already know the total charges and dates then you would just need to either send a prelim letter followed by a letter before action,or else just send a 28 day letter before action.

At least you will have a claim in the system while time allows.

If you have not got all your statements or figures with dates,then you will have to send a SAR.

 

Pity you didnt do this earlier as you would have been ok for fee remission.

[MARTIN3030]

Hello

 

Just wanted to report on what happened at the bank when I took in the letter.

 

The lady I spoke to was very nice and helpful, she took my phone number to call me with a decision. No one phoned though.

 

The charge came out of my account on the Wednesday so I thought the letter hadn't worked.

 

Then on Friday I got the charges back!

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

I received a letter stating that as this was my first charge, they would waive the charge but future charges will remain. That's fine with me, it won't happen again and....I got my money back without too much of a fight....excellent!

 

Thank you again

 

Good to see that Kay.

[InformedSearcher]

hi this happens to me all the time i am currently trying to claim back all chrges made to my account although its proving tough they are trying to put me in the long que waitng like evrybody else moneys tight any suggestions?

 

Well that'll be the big queue where nothing is guaranteed. If it's just recent they might relent and do a refund. A few more details might be helpful. There's of course the financial hardship route but alas not 100% guaranteed.

 

Michael

[Desperate Daniella]

Heinov,

 

They absolutely cannot take your child benefit. Before any bank can get an offset (which they will say is in your t&cs) they have to prove it is "disposable income". My credit card company (same as bank) has tried to take money from my account three times this year. I have always called the Financial Ombudsman Service immediately and got it back on the same day.

 

The first time they actually took their payment on the same day as the child allowance came in and the FOS took an extremely dim view of this. (Appalled!!!)

 

Before they can offset against money in your account they must allow you to pay the mortgage or rent, council tax, tv licence and utility bills, and probably other things too - can't remember at the moment. Obviously though you must be allowed to eat!

 

You are under no obligation to pay for these outgoings by direct debit or standing order although they will argue that unless they can see these outgoings (council tax, gas, electricity, etc.) they can't know that you are making these payments. My argument (backed by FOS) is that I cannot have DDs or SOs because if the money isn't in the account they will bounce/refuse and charge me for doing so.

 

I really would call FOS. I know people say they aren't brilliant on a number of issues but I have called them five times this year - three times for the bank and twice for Cap One - and they have acted instantly.

 

DD

[InformedSearcher]

'Desperate Daniella' - You are dare I say it, lucky.

 

No, the banks do not need to see D/D's and S/O's going out but they will probably want to do an 'income and expenditure' both to see and update their records. I know Cap One and the bank (HSBC) did with me. In fact Capital One will allow a grace period of interest and will put a 'cunning' remark within the CRA files which anyone (financial) will comprehend as 'problem'. The simple argument is that as you are paying funds from your account these would be marked with their recipients accordingly. I can recall the funny incident with being questioned by an HSBC man in India who appeared not to know what rent, council tax and water rates were!

 

I would suggest in all such cases it's better to open a basic bank account where you cannot have an overdraft and it's up to you to ensure you have funds for whatever you pay out. I'm a little confused though as to why the bank is taking funds if you say you do not have any D/D's or S/O's marked to go out and therefore the account is maybe in credit?

 

Michael

[MARTIN3030]

I helped a neigbour to get a crisis loan following his bank taking most of his jobseekers allowance-DWP gave him a payment for gas electricity and food-I told him to send a copy of the crisis loan paperwork with his complaint to the FOS.

This came AFTER he had informed the bank of his financial position-clearly he has proof now that they ignored his plight.

Will keep this case updated as to the result.

[InformedSearcher]

'Martin3030' - Yes I can believe that happening. To a bank it's considered that funds entering an account where there are payments due (and not agreed otherwise) are fair game. In my case I made it clear that the funds entering the account were for legitimate purposes as in goods and services which they knew about. They then never touched them again but alas due to my loan default advised me that the (joint) current account would be automatically closed. I had to smile as it's still active (less funds of course!).

 

Whilst I see the OFT as good people when needed they'll not contend with continious useage of them for the same thing. IMHO always best to tell the bank the position and with that knowledge it would be unacceptable for them to 'tamper' without good reason. The 'plus' point to this is that you have now put the emphasis in the banks court meaning they'll think twice about causing you genuine hardship - which they know they must not do.

 

I think there are many ways to resolve such issues. In my case I found 'fronting' the bank was wise in my set of particular citcumstances.

Michael

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Michael,

 

It is better to open a basic bank account, I agree, but as I have my company account with the same bank, I don't think they'd be too happy if I removed the personal account. It's the same card company as the bank and that's why they have tried to take the money as soon as anything gets into the personal account which it has to do to pay personal expenses. Obviously they know my income, but it's fee based, not a regular salary on a regular date, and consequently I can't have SOs or DDs because for the sake of literally one day I could end up incurring charges.

 

DD

[InformedSearcher]

Hi Michael,

 

It is better to open a basic bank account, I agree, but as I have my company account with the same bank, I don't think they'd be too happy if I removed the personal account. It's the same card company as the bank and that's why they have tried to take the money as soon as anything gets into the personal account which it has to do to pay personal expenses. Obviously they know my income, but it's fee based, not a regular salary on a regular date, and consequently I can't have SOs or DDs because for the sake of literally one day I could end up incurring charges.

 

DD

 

Nothing to stop you opening a basic account and have benefits paid into it though and always a good move as a fallback. You can open Co-Op and LloydsTSB accounts on the phone with a zero balance.

 

Michael

[The GodMother]

I helped a neigbour to get a crisis loan following his bank taking most of his jobseekers allowance-DWP gave him a payment for gas electricity and food-I told him to send a copy of the crisis loan paperwork with his complaint to the FOS.

This came AFTER he had informed the bank of his financial position-clearly he has proof now that they ignored his plight.

Will keep this case updated as to the result.

 

 

Martin.

 

How ar u managing to get ppl on benefits crisis loans when the bank has taken money for charges i dont know.

 

The whole of Norfolk, this is run by ONE DWP office, is being REFUSED crisis loans if the DWP even think it is due to bank charges or have the evidence. I can certainly say now ppl are being asked if they have had bank charges since being on benefits over here.

 

The DWP are refusing ALL crisis loans with or without evidence if they think bank charges telling us that under the law, quoting section 182 of the social securitys act thingy, that it is illegal for them to remove money for bank charges. They have wrote to all banks saying they are breaking the law and telling use verbally and in writing we are refused for either possibly bank charges or even defenate bank charges.

[MARTIN3030]

GM quite simply because a Crisis loan is available to those whose health is at risk due to having no money.

My understanding is that the Social security act that you mention is not definitive-that is to say that it does not cover ALL benefits,and thiere is much confusion over this.

We have had some banks dismissing outright requests to give rights of appropriation citing the act,some have agreed whilst others have not.

 

The waiver agreement,coupled with the updated banking codes guidance in March 2008,are both in themselves adequate to be citing in requests to banks to leave benefit payments alone under a financial hardship request.

 

I have not heard of the initiative being taken by Norfolk.

 

I will contact them personally to see if I can find out how the banks have responded.

The info could prob be gained by a freedom of info request if they wont give it informally.

I would be very interested to know how the banks are responding.