JSA sanctions and a4e

[SWLABR9]

Yes, the government appear to be deliberately shrinking the economy. Why would they do that? well... it's complicated... butit ain't for our benefit. More here http://think-left.org/2012/08/18/what-is-george-osborne-playing-at/

[snoid01]

Hadn't heard of the £31bn, but there is some shenanigans going on in terms of what the government are saying about the deficit. Mainly, what they're saying is that because we have large debts, we are "poor" and must make paying them back a priority. To persuade us, they point out that families with large debts are in trouble, and may be spending beyond their means.

 

This is often true, but this is a country, not a family. My debt is your income, and vice versa. Obviously, in an ideal world, we'd have a lower deficit, but this is not an ideal world, far from it. By prioritising deficit reduction, the government is removing money from the economy, and indirectly reducing demand for goods and services. Demand goes down, companies sell less and so lay off or don't hire workers, further depressing demand. A vicious circle. Of course, in situations like this the richer you are, the better you are able to weather the storm.

 

Current policy is based around discredited "supply side" theory - the idea that if taxes on corporations and the wealthy are lowered, they will hire more staff. We've got Ronnie Reagan to thank for this particular piece of ideological nonsense. Companies don't hire because they have pots of cash sitting around and nothing better to do with it. They hire in response to increased demand for their goods and services. Ah, but see above - the government is acting in a way that reduces demand.

 

Are we poor? It's the wrong question to be asking at this time. The correct question is "How do we increase demand?" And the answer is not "Cut spending, lay off public sector workers, and throw the sick and unemployed under a bus."

 

 

Totally ridiculous that all those involved in ruining the economy can ever think of taking it out on those really struggling in society. That's not to say that you should remain unemployed forever but bully boy tactics shouldn't be the way to go about it. I certainly hope Labour with a decent leadership get back in in the next election for whatever you think of GB, TB, JP and PM, I don't think you will be able to match their pedigree anytime soon.

 

Considering bankers can't even be sanctioned on their million pound bonuses, yet we can be deprived of food and electricity for weeks on end for missing an appointment, having to scrounge from food banks or soup kitchens, like to see them try it. They're probably eating better in many 3rd world countries than i am at the moment, and I'm happy for them, but this stinks of the Tories elitist ways again.

Edited August 19, 2012 by snoid01

[worried33]

Most places don't accept this anyway. For jobs, they usually ask for a passport or driving licence.

 

who pays for those 2 things?

 

thats excessive id for a job.

[sillygirl1]

The person applying for the job pays for them, the DWP seem to think that you can find £77 out of £142 a fortnight to pay for the documents, that is after paying essential bills such as electric, transport to find work, food, phone/internet. That is without Sky or Virgin packages of course (I don't have either as I get 117 channels through the roof aerial and I have a £5 Netflix subscription for films).

[osdset]

who pays for those 2 things?

 

thats excessive id for a job.

 

A lot of jobs ask for a passport now, it's part of proving you have permission to work in the UK.

But it's not only jobs, Newham the 'Olympic' borough has a scheme called Workplace, this is intended to help local unemployed people from all sections of the community get a foot on the ladder of employment, and whats one of the essential forms of ID required to register at Workplace? A passport.

[caro]

Won't they accept a birth certificate for British born jobseekers?

[Nystagmite]

when I was at MDEC, they wanted my birth certificate and either a passport, driving licence or a piece of paper with my photo signed by my GP.

[osdset]

Won't they accept a birth certificate for British born jobseekers?

 

Just checked the site, yes they will accept a full UK Birth certificate if validated with photo ID in this case a full UK driving licence, which is still a barrier to some, I have never for the life of me understood how a full birth certificate can be used as a legal form of ID, it must be the easiest document in the world to get hold of.

[worried33]

A lot of jobs ask for a passport now, it's part of proving you have permission to work in the UK.

But it's not only jobs, Newham the 'Olympic' borough has a scheme called Workplace, this is intended to help local unemployed people from all sections of the community get a foot on the ladder of employment, and whats one of the essential forms of ID required to register at Workplace? A passport.

 

this is why the ID card scheme wasnt a waste, that would have gave all of the poor free photo id.

 

but apparently everyone has a passport or drivers licence wait.....

[osdset]

I was against the ID card on the basis that there would probably have been more information stored on it that I would be comfortable with, especially if they had been the biometric type.

[antone]

this is why the ID card scheme wasnt a waste, that would have gave all of the poor free photo id.

 

but apparently everyone has a passport or drivers licence wait.....

 

It's been a while since I looked into this issue, but as I recall, the ID cards were not slated to be free. Couldn't swear to this, though.

[san_d]

It's been a while since I looked into this issue, but as I recall, the ID cards were not slated to be free. Couldn't swear to this, though.

True! ID cards should have costed around £80 or so, to match the price of passports. I find it funny that people reject the idea of a national ID scheme on the ground of privacy, while your bank, your debit/credit card provider, Amazon, Google, Yahoo, Facebook and Paypal know just about everything of you and monitor your behaviour in real time.

[antone]

True! ID cards should have costed around £80 or so, to match the price of passports. I find it funny that people reject the idea of a national ID scheme on the ground of privacy, while your bank, your debit/credit card provider, Amazon, Google, Yahoo, Facebook and Paypal know just about everything of you and monitor your behaviour in real time.

 

Amazon etc have no law enforcement interest in your behaviour, and can't throw you in jail. And you can refuse to deal with them if you don't like their policies, unlike the government.

 

Actually, I think one of the most useful things the DWP could pay for would be CRB/Disclosure Scotland checks for jobseekers.

[biggeorge]

I'm with Ingeus and in December last year I received a Sanction for not turning up for an appointment, Never received it in the post and although

I explained this in my appeal I lost my benefits on December 13 (nice present for xmas).

Recently received another Sanction but this time I was over in Manchester checking out a job lead that my sister had found, Realised that I would not make

my appointment back in Leeds in time so tried phoning Ingeus for 30 minutes and could not get through to explain.

 

Sent a letter to my adviser next day and all seemed fine, she even gave me her personal number in case I could not get through again.

Surprise surprise I then received another Sanction for missing this appointment, Lucky for me who ever looked at my appeal had the common sense

and understood that there was nothing else I could have done stuck over in Manchester and Ingeus not answering the phone and they cancelled the Sanction,

My benefit was paid 5 days later than normal.

 

The mess that has caused is beyond belief, Direct Deductions were stopped for Gas & Electricity, Housing Benefit also stopped and now getting threatening letters

from Npowers debt collection team before we even get a bill.

 

Cabvol if you still have that letter it could be your only saving grace, Get it photocopied and send in with your appeal explaining like you have done your busy schedule.

Good luck

 

George

 

[rainbo]

who pays for those 2 things?

 

thats excessive id for a job.

 

Indeed...but all the jobs I, or my children, have applied for in the last 10 years have insisted on one of these. I have actually (in the past) been 'unconsidered' for a job as I don't hold a driving licence (don't drive, don't want to!) or a passport (don't go abroad, don't want to!) and they wouldn't accept a UK birth certificate.

[SWLABR9]

Is it true we'll need a passport to get universal credit?

[worried33]

It's been a while since I looked into this issue, but as I recall, the ID cards were not slated to be free. Couldn't swear to this, though.

 

they were to be free to the vulnerable and low income , not sure what the vulnerable would be classified as but low income was also mentioned. For this reason I backed the ID card idea.

 

The mistake was probably trying to force ID cards on everyone instead of just making them optional.

 

I dont have any photo ID due to cost and work involved in getting it, because getting a passport isnt just sending a form off, need to get a signed photo as well. In practice I have never been abroad so never needed a passport and I dont drive.

[osdset]

Passports are not cheap now, there is the obvious cost of the passport itself, plus the fee for a doctor to sign the photo if there is no one else available, my surgery charges £25 for this service, the fares to and from the office that conducts the passport identity check, and in my case the fee for a CRB check to get a visa for the USA.

 

If you have, in the words of the American Embassy 'committed an act of moral turpitude' which could be as minor as scrumping an apple and getting caught for it, you are not eligible for the visa waiver scheme and have to submit a CRB check from the police, if after all that, the Yanks decide you are not actually a potential terrorist or career criminal then it's a case of paying the fares to and from the US embassy in Grosvenor Sq and queuing for hours for a visa interview.

[sillygirl1]

As has been said, a birth certificate doesn't mean you can actually work in the UK.

 

I also agree that if the DWP organised CRB checks for those that don't have them when signing on there would be a lot more people working. They refused to pay for one for me even though I had numerous letters from agencies stating that they would get me work, but I got mine in the end via an odd way.

 

We have an active Freecycle group here, I contacted a lady wanting some large size crochet hooks and she came and collected them. She is a tutor with the WEA and they haven't got anyone who crochets, so they are taking me on initially as a volunteer then I will do their 10 week teaching assistant course and become a full time tutor. They said they had to CRB check each volunteer so I now have an Enhanced CRB check - YAY. All done off my own back and nothing to do with the DWP or Prospects (our work programme provider).

 

Wouldn't it make sense as part of the redundancy consultation period that companies make sure their 'redundant' staff have valid ID such as passports and the now seemingly compulsory CRB checks.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

As has been said, a birth certificate doesn't mean you can actually work in the UK.

 

I also agree that if the DWP organised CRB checks for those that don't have them when signing on there would be a lot more people working. They refused to pay for one for me even though I had numerous letters from agencies stating that they would get me work, but I got mine in the end via an odd way.

 

We have an active Freecycle group here, I contacted a lady wanting some large size crochet hooks and she came and collected them. She is a tutor with the WEA and they haven't got anyone who crochets, so they are taking me on initially as a volunteer then I will do their 10 week teaching assistant course and become a full time tutor. They said they had to CRB check each volunteer so I now have an Enhanced CRB check - YAY. All done off my own back and nothing to do with the DWP or Prospects (our work programme provider).

 

Wouldn't it make sense as part of the redundancy consultation period that companies make sure their 'redundant' staff have valid ID such as passports and the now seemingly compulsory CRB checks.

It has always been perverse to note that, if when applying for a job, and Security Vetting is required, the candidate is simply required to complete the relevant form which is then processed within a Central Government Authority, but in terms of the CRB Check, the candidate is presumed guilty of a serious offence unless they go to the trouble of submitting themselves to CRB Vetting.

 

In the past, when the issue has been raised, I have simply suggested that whereas I would have no problem with completing any Security Vetting or CRB Check, it is down to the employer to process the application.... and for them to incur whatever cost is necessary. It is not down to the candidate to absorb any component of employer recruitment costs.

[infojunkie]

I have just received notification of a successful appeal against my first ever sanction. I was on the understanding that you could only appeal if you had new information to add and that could be taken into account by the DM. Whilst I didnt have any new information, I appealed anyway (nothing to lose!) so I provided a bit more detail than the first time the JC asked me why I hadnt turned up to an appointment. I was unsure of why I hadnt turned up for appointment as it took JCP over a month to tell me I had missed it, and still nothing was said at WP meetings on subsequent appointments to the one I had supposedly missed! I mentioned that they dont send recorded delivery letters when they cancel/reschedule appointment dates, so they cannot be 100% that it has been received by work slave, i think on this doubt they have to err on side of caution and overturn sanction if WP cant prove Royal Mail is 100% accurate.

[debt4get]

It has always been perverse to note that, if when applying for a job, and Security Vetting is required, the candidate is simply required to complete the relevant form which is then processed within a Central Government Authority, but in terms of the CRB Check, the candidate is presumed guilty of a serious offence unless they go to the trouble of submitting themselves to CRB Vetting.

 

In the past, when the issue has been raised, I have simply suggested that whereas I would have no problem with completing any Security Vetting or CRB Check, it is down to the employer to process the application.... and for them to incur whatever cost is necessary. It is not down to the candidate to absorb any component of employer recruitment costs.

and here now is another problem put in front of jobseekers, seeking work....during the 80's when unemployment rose, i was made redundant and in order to make ends meet took low paid security jobs, now that avenue is closed as you now need different certificates for different roles, all to be paid for out of your own pockets.

the same with building sites, minumum requirement for a building labourer, cics card.

if you have contact with young people crb and or enhanced crb...and the list goes on and on.

the providers should be paying for these if that is what is required, but of course that eats into profits!!

[osdset]

Employers now concentrate so much on certificates, plastic swipe cards, photo cards, biometric passes, blah blah, that they are fast losing sight of the most important thing................can the candidate do the bloody job!

It's also a huge money spinner for the training firms and the companies that churn out all this paper and plastic, I would like to know how much revenue the police (Home Office?) get from the CRB check fees.

[snoid01]

I have just received notification of a successful appeal against my first ever sanction. I was on the understanding that you could only appeal if you had new information to add and that could be taken into account by the DM. Whilst I didnt have any new information, I appealed anyway (nothing to lose!) so I provided a bit more detail than the first time the JC asked me why I hadnt turned up to an appointment. I was unsure of why I hadnt turned up for appointment as it took JCP over a month to tell me I had missed it, and still nothing was said at WP meetings on subsequent appointments to the one I had supposedly missed! I mentioned that they dont send recorded delivery letters when they cancel/reschedule appointment dates, so they cannot be 100% that it has been received by work slave, i think on this doubt they have to err on side of caution and overturn sanction if WP cant prove Royal Mail is 100% accurate.

 

 

How long did you need to wait for the appeal decision, and i take it you put in a reconsideration first which was rejected so also how long did the reconsideration take?

[infojunkie]

How long did you need to wait for the appeal decision, and i take it you put in a reconsideration first which was rejected so also how long did the reconsideration take?

The letter informing of me of the 'doubt' was received and I had 5 days to return it to JCP with my explanation of why I had missed appointment, they then took just over a week and a half to tell me it was declined. I appealed straightaway on a Thursday, and got my favourable appeal back the next Friday, so little over a week. All in all about 3 weeks from start to finish. They then forgot to pay me my JSA on the normal day, and I had to ring them and prompt for payment which was then paid in the same day. I think this has something to do with them not resetting the payment screen or something after a favourable decision has been granted.

JCP did not inform HB or CT about the sanction on my benefit, as has been the case with other people, however I am having arrears deducted at source for a utility bill and JCP informed them that I was not currently claiming JSA and the utility wanted immediate payment from me! All this for a 2 week sanction, it probs costs more for them in administration than my actual benefit costs to pay me:|