Can people really be expected to live on nothing?

[debt4get]

like I said you couldnt make it up.....Ministers are being urged to look into reports that unemployed people hired as unpaid stewards for the Diamond Jubilee pageant ended up having to sleep outside and change in the rain

link here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18327711

[sadone]

See my post #22 above - they're not removing the right to appeal. They are, however, making the process more complicated.

 

Now there's an understatement. The whole thing is just beyond disgusting.

 

What a bunch a heartless arse's we have running this poor bloody country.

[antone]

if it wasnt so serious ..it would almost be laughable...I am wondering if every morning baldrick strolls into no.10 and announces to DC...'i have a cunning plan......'

 

Part of my job was inputting ESA appeal decisions into the JSAPS payment computer system. The tribunal sends a notification of the result to the DWP office. Normally these were quite mundane, along the lines of "Appellant satisfies the conditions of ESA regulation XX and the decision of the Secretary of State is set aside".

 

Every so often, though, I'd see one that read something like "We are astonished that this has landed on our desk. Appellant is so obviously entitled to ESA that it's hard to believe any halfway competent medical examiner would suggest he is fit for work."

[postggj]

any halfway competent medical examiner would suggest he is fit for work."

 

not ATOS by any chance

 

who pays the piper (DC)

[SWLABR9]

It's not definite yet, it's proposed (AFAIK). At the moment you get basic rate, yes, while awaiting your reconsideration and appeal but you'll be expected to sign on every fortnight from next April if this goes through. Since hardly anyone knows about it, there's every chance it will. Difficult to see how the sick and disabled will be able to claim JSA at all let alone repeatedly.

[debt4get]

It's not definite yet, it's proposed (AFAIK). At the moment you get basic rate, yes, while awaiting your reconsideration and appeal but you'll be expected to sign on every fortnight from next April if this goes through. Since hardly anyone knows about it, there's every chance it will. Difficult to see how the sick and disabled will be able to claim JSA at all let alone repeatedly.

I suppose every cloud has a silver lining if it does force hundreds of thousands off ESA to claim JSA think how high the unemployment figures will look?

[debt4get]

any halfway competent medical examiner would suggest he is fit for work."

 

not ATOS by any chance

 

who pays the piper (DC)

of course the 'miracle cure' company...one wave of the magic pen...and the sick and disabled are automatically cured

 

who needs loudres...when you have rATOS

[antone]

I suppose every cloud has a silver lining if it does force hundreds of thousands off ESA to claim JSA think how high the unemployment figures will look?

 

There's a certain irony here. During the Thatcher years unemployment was the big concern, and the government realised that people on IB didn't count in the unemployment figures. So anyone who turned up to sign on with a bit of a sniffle and a runny nose was told to claim IB instead. We've come full circle.

[antone]

It's not definite yet, it's proposed (AFAIK). At the moment you get basic rate, yes, while awaiting your reconsideration and appeal but you'll be expected to sign on every fortnight from next April if this goes through. Since hardly anyone knows about it, there's every chance it will. Difficult to see how the sick and disabled will be able to claim JSA at all let alone repeatedly.

 

At present, you don't actually get paid until the recon is completed. It's just that the recon is the first stage of the appeal process, and the claimant need only submit one GL24. The delay in payment most claimants experience when appealing is mainly due to the time it takes to do the recon.

[SWLABR9]

It's my understanding you get paid at the basic rate while you're waiting for the results of your recon.

[Nystagmite]

On IB, you were either paid reduced rate IS or JSA if you were appealing.

[antone]

It's my understanding you get paid at the basic rate while you're waiting for the results of your recon.

 

Well, it may be different now, but when I worked there we could only put a claim back into payment once we had received it back from the DMs. Of course, procedures do change and it's been 2 years since my ESA processing days.

[mark1trucker]

And this utterly terrifies me. So few people know abut whats going to happen (as per with this government) and so by the time it effects them it will be far too late.

 

What with this and this foul and imo completely biased 'sanctioning' policy, people will be forced into even greater despair and poverty.

 

How low can we as a country go before some people start to rebel against all this terrible injustice?

 

When will the british public ever learn Tories are no different today than they always have been! All for the rich and the working class are **** and should be driven into the gutter and that is their main aim to take us back to those dark days. The young people of britain have never experienced a Tory goverment but they will now and they are going to get a shock!. And as for some of the other older generations who voted tory again you all must have short memories, how can we forget the massive amount of damage tories did under Thatcher control!! Sending in her hench men starting with the Yank Ian McGregor to dismantle the steel industry then moving in for the main prize the Miners to crush the unions and make an example of them and god knows what amount of damage to the manufacturing industry. All I can see is this is just the begining of the end for the working class unless we all stand together and get this shower out come next election !! Will it happen?the standing together I mean! I very much doubt it because we in britain need to recognise that we live in a selfish society all for ourselves as long as its not affecting me attitude who cares!!. Well it is all our problems, well all except the filthy rich and their cronies. Wonder what Guy Fawkes would think if he were around today!!. The revolution is long overdue but one day it will arrive!!.

Edited June 5, 2012 by mark1trucker

[mark1trucker]

It's not definite yet, it's proposed (AFAIK). At the moment you get basic rate, yes, while awaiting your reconsideration and appeal but you'll be expected to sign on every fortnight from next April if this goes through. Since hardly anyone knows about it, there's every chance it will. Difficult to see how the sick and disabled will be able to claim JSA at all let alone repeatedly.

 

I am not familiar with the workings of the benefit system but I undersand what sanctioning means and jcp and jsa but no idea what all the other things mean like (AFAIK) I think I need a benefits dictionary if anyone can help please for future reference! Thanks.

[antone]

I am not familiar with the workings of the benefit system but I undersand what sanctioning means and jcp and jsa but no idea what all the other things mean like (AFAIK) I think I need a benefits dictionary if anyone can help please for future reference! Thanks.

 

AFAIK isn't really a benefit abbreviation. It means "as far as I know".

 

There are benefit dictionaries on this site, IIRC ("if I recall correctly", another one you'll see online a lot) and I'll see if I can find them.

 

Edit: Here it is.

[mark1trucker]

AFAIK isn't really a benefit abbreviation. It means "as far as I know".

 

There are benefit dictionaries on this site, IIRC ("if I recall correctly", another one you'll see online a lot) and I'll see if I can find them.

 

Edit: Here it is.

 

Thanks Antone think ime a bit out of touch with things like shortened down words! Need to get in touch with the lingo eh Thanks for the dictionary

[antone]

Thanks Antone think ime a bit out of touch with things like shortened down words! Need to get in touch with the lingo eh Thanks for the dictionary

 

NP ("no problem"). Others you see a lot are IMO ("in my opinion"), IMHO ("in my humble opinion"), IMNSHO ("in my not so humble opinion"), and the perennial favourite, LMAO ("laughing my arse off").

 

Another is ROTFL ("rolling on the floor laughing"), and one that was invented for a politics/social forum I used to be involved with: ROTFLAGL ("rolling on the floor laughing and gathering lint"). Internet abbreviations are an art, really

[osdset]

OIC (Oh I see) which is a YABA (Yet Another Bloody Acronym)

[worried33]

I had a conversation with my sister last week, it was more about the NHS than benefits but a point we agreed on I feel is relevant to this topic.

 

We were discussing how the NHS is now much harder to get things like home visits and transport and agreed they made an assumption that there is always a family/friend to help so eg. can get a lift to the hospital or doctor. I feel its the same with benefits in that the state has assumed that if someone is cutoff from benefits that there will always be a friend or family member for that person to fall back on for the essentials such as accomodation and food. Thats a very dangerous assumption to make of course. Of course it makes that person less independent when this government is going on about dependency.

[worried33]

On IB, you were either paid reduced rate IS or JSA if you were appealing.

 

yes I rememebr having to live on £40 or so a week when I appealed a failed IB medical.

[caro]

There will also be many people who are currently living in accommodation that is considered too big for their needs, so will either have to move, or will find their HB cut. Also HB will be paid within universal credit which is likely to lead to people not paying all their rent if they're struggling to make ends meet.

 

Expect to see the courts with even more people facing eviction.

[worried33]

It's arguable that the whole of welfare reform is actually illegal, http://gwenhwyfaer.posterous.com/reinstatement which would explain why legal aid for opposing it has been taken away.

 

He is right.

 

I find it shocking all the press, all the charities and sites like b&w which appears to be run by legal professionals have not picked up on that a lot of welfare reform is illegal and started legal action.

 

I think all the charities etc. between them have enough funding and manpower for this but I think they have due to bad management taken the wrong paths.

 

A friend of mine has beat his local council multiple times legally over housing benefit changes which change entitlement to single room rate. It was on a very similiar principle.

 

Now the press is perhaps not so shocking when considering they probably in collusion with the government but its very bad from the charities.

[osdset]

A lot of the charities are busy running their hands under cold water after having their fingers burnt with regard to w2w contracts, at least it has exposed a lot of charities for openly going for the fast buck instead of the usual method of siphoning the cash from the collecting boxes.

[Nystagmite]

There will also be many people who are currently living in accommodation that is considered too big for their needs, so will either have to move, or will find their HB cut. Also HB will be paid within universal credit which is likely to lead to people not paying all their rent if they're struggling to make ends meet.

 

Expect to see the courts with even more people facing eviction.

 

I know a few people in this situation. They live in adapted houses; so it's not quite as easy as just finding smaller accommodation - they have bigger houses because they need them.

[Slatted]

I had a conversation with my sister last week, it was more about the NHS than benefits but a point we agreed on I feel is relevant to this topic.

 

We were discussing how the NHS is now much harder to get things like home visits and transport and agreed they made an assumption that there is always a family/friend to help so eg. can get a lift to the hospital or doctor. I feel its the same with benefits in that the state has assumed that if someone is cutoff from benefits that there will always be a friend or family member for that person to fall back on for the essentials such as accomodation and food. Thats a very dangerous assumption to make of course. Of course it makes that person less independent when this government is going on about dependency.

 

That is exactly my experience of NHS and problems when ill but no one to call upon in an emergency. People I know cannot afford to run a car.....or a taxi ride....

 

It is easier to be independent when you are well and in work.....not so easy when ill and "dependent" on benefits......