Kevboy_telford Vs LLoyds

[ncf355]

Funny judi3, I thought of CAG when I saw the Unison ad!

 

[newacre]

yep, include me in if a whip round for an appeal is launched. i think the senior mods need to get together and provide a written response to every point. i have read the whole judgment and it strikes me as legal gobbledygook. this is far from the end of the road but something we should take seriously.

 

the ruling appears to say that the charges cannot be interpreted as being for one specific thing and should be taken as part of the round for services rendered! how can that possible be the case when it tells you that they are?

 

and you should never have said that you did not consider yourself in breach of your contract when you went over your limit as that was the basis of your case. but he should not have taken your word for it, either.

 

there are some dorks out there and we have to hope that the presiding judge gets hold of him and this is set right, on appeal. good luck!

[isminenottheirs]

I was really gutted for you when I heard your news. Stay strong and keep fighting. Good luck!!

[Mistermind]

 

Am I right in thinking I cannot claim for unauth'd borr fee if its £10?? as that would add £150 to my claim

Kevin

 

 

If you are paying for a service, whereby you pay £10 per month for your account, then you can't claim that back. However, if you

automatically

pay £10 every time your account goes overdrawn then you have every right to claim that back.

 

 

Thanks for the pointer re £10 - will add that back in and increase how much I am trying to claw back!!

Kevin

 

 

….you can only claim back the o/d interest proportionally to the penalty charges, and for example if you are charged interest on an overdraft which does not have any penalty charges includedthen

you cannot claim for that particular portion of the interest.

...

 

 

Re my interest - I

have calculated it as the full amount of overdraft interest that I was charged -

as have no way of working out proportionatelyas it was the charges that pushed me into my overdraft in the first place.... - me getting very confused.

The way I see it is that because the bank charged me the privilege for going over my OD limit I should sue them an amount of interest, they have charged me. Is that correct or I am barking up the wrong tree? And how should I calculate the relevant amount of interest to claim back?

 

 

-----------------------------------------

Twice the questioner was answered.

 

Twice the questioner failed to understand the reply.

 

-----------------------------------------

This defeated case involves reclaims of

(1) interest unlawfully accrued from unlawful automated penalty charges?

(2) interest accrued from what the bank called "£10 service fee" where a human manager

manually spent time

to condone a debit item exceeding the o/d limit, at the same time saddling the bank with an increased risk of unsecured bad debt.

(3) interest lawfully accrued from lawful overdraft borrowings at a rate agreed in T&C.

-------------------------------------

(1) No problem about reclaiming this.

(2) Reclaim questionable, just as the reclaiming of £10 manual fee is questionable.

(3) Not a cat in hell's chance.

-------------------------------------

Can a real lawyer advise, when a defeated case goes to appeal can the terms (reclaims) of the original case be scaled back?

If not -- bad enough to lose a case, to lose an appeal in front of a nationwide audience would be worse.

[casbah]

Right!!!!ok!!!!

Now i am not the brightest star in the sky, and yes! it has been known that I am a picnic short of a sandwich (yes that is the right way round :grin: ) BUT I was wondering..........did this Judge do this to make us join forces? he commented on the amount of claims going through the courts............. Is he hinting that we need to change the law that the banks HAVE to tell us how these charges are made up???then isn't that a matter for parliament???? I don't think he used Kevin as a scapegoat more of a precedent He must have known there are 100s of thousands watching for the out come.............Lloyds didn't show but still he went ahead, I think he was trying to point us in the right direction.

Maybe I was reading through rose tinted glassed but I don't remember him saying LLoyds were right, he said the Act wasn't defined correctly

Anyway I'm a complete bimbo so I will carry on with my claims, regardless.

Good luck Kevin in whatever you decide to do

[chrissy_p0]

Hi Kevin,

Really feel for you that you didn't win, i hope you will appeal you've got legal bods and media behind you and all of us, i'd go for it, i think!

I have a quick question, am i right in assuming that in the court directions you received that the judge didn't order standard disclosure from both parties?

Good luck

Christine

[carter56]

Just a quick question would it be possible to get a copy of the original t & c from when you opened an account. i opened mine in about 1981. dont remember ever having an updated copy !

linda

[c_allen]

when i lost my case against citi, it was lost on the point that they are allowed to charge you a pre-estimate of an average of all there costs across the boardand not just pertinant to your acount, ie, you miss one payment and get charged 35 quid you are also bearing some of the cost of someone who.say, went bankrupt oweing them thousands

 

sorry, but did you say a judge said this?????????. and you lost?????

this just is not true, imo, if you recive a charge, even if it was for a ''service'', then the fee has got to be for that service alone, and NOT to pay for other/someone else's service, is it just me or does anyone else have a problem with this???

[Mistermind]

RBS-NatWest have 19 million accounts. They could not possibly calculate for each account how much it cost to bounce one cheque. They would add up all bouncing costs for the entire year and spread the cost. If over one year one milliion cheques were bounced at a cost of 3 million pounds, then each bounce would cost £3 -- this is the Dublin banks' charge.

 

Except that NatWest charges £38.

Can you believe it?

[chorlton1]

Kev - not much to say that hasnt already been said mate, other than if/when you file an appeal they better build a grandstand outside with a TV feed for the public gallery 'cos a hell of a lot of us will be there to see you get your money!

 

Keep the faith

[bp]

Hi kev, i'll echo what all the others have said. I may sound mad but i think this may actually end being what we have all been waiting for. A way to get the courts to finally make a decision and stop the 1000s of claims being made. If you decide to go for the appeal and lloyds actually turn up, we will know one way or the other. This was def a fluke. How this judge expected you to provide proof of their calculations when even a gov committee couldn't get them to disclose them is strange!

 

you have my tenner.

[bluenose1]

Kev - The Civil Proceedure Rules (The Court Rules - in simple terms) were amended in October 2006 so that there is no longer any liability to pay your opponents legal costs in the event that you lost at Appeal.

 

The same rules regarding costs now apply to Small Claims Appeal cases, as to the Small Claims case itself. Therefore the only expenses you may incur, in the event that you lost, should only be the banks travel expenses in attending the hearing - and by the way they are capped at £50.

 

Therefore the kind offers of financial assistance from other members of the public may not actually be that necessary.

 

You therefore have little to lose by appealing the Courts decision. Your Appeal can only be made on the grounds that the Judge made an error on a point of law, and therefore I would recommend that you obtain legal advice from a suitably qualified solicitor to assist with drafting a 'water-tight' appeal that adequately addresses all of the issues raised in the Judgement. But remember that you will not be able to recover your costs should you win. (But dont worry yet....read on!)

 

I would advise you to check your household insurance policy to see if you have something called "Legal Expenses Insurance" as part of your policy. If you cant see it on your documents then it is worth a quick phone call to your insurer to find out. If you have it, then this may cover the cost of your solicitor for you, and normally this wont even affect your no claims bonuses / premiums on your insurance policy. If on the other hand you dont have Legal Expenses Insurance then it may be worth taking up the offers of financial assistancec afterall.

 

I would advise you to act quickly with this as there are strict time limits for launching your Appeal.

 

Lloyds TSB will be on tender-hooks at the moment - as will the other banks - because if you were to win at Appeal then it would be binding on all of the County Courts in England & Wales, and would therefore become law - (with your name on it!).

 

Hope this helps & good luck,

 

Bluenose1

 

 

 

How much will an appeal cost?

 

Thank you all for the words of encouragement

There is a copy of the final judgment on the BBC

(which I haven't got myself )

BBC NEWS | Business | Bank's overdraft charges upheld

 

Please note I am the second case he mentions.

 

I have seen my mention on Martin Lewis's site and some of your ideas of getting a paypal account to fund an appeal. I am considering my options at the moment - still, to be honest, in shock that the judge didn't change his verdict.

The first time I went to court (mid-April) I was in for over 1 hr being cross examined.

 

It also seems that Lloyds had overlooked my claim.

 

I do believe that this judgment was unusual and is not about to become the norm. I hope it hasn't put anyone off claiming back their bank charges, and that the rest of you will continue with your claims.

 

Many thanks to everyone who has helped along the way so far, especially to Bankfodder, GaryH & Tom Brennan.

 

Cheers,

 

Kev

[becky1822]

I believe that the judge was firstly having a bad day and secondly getting fed up with his time being wasted in court by all the people claiming their bank charges back. Unfortunately he realises that the courts cannot stop the banks behaving like they do in the courts so he has decided to pick on the 'little man'. He cannot make the big corporates bend and so tries to make the 'small man'. He should have taken a leaf out of the London Judge. The London judge threatened the banks thatb if they kept failing to appear to court and dragging the whole thing out, then he would start awarding damages to we the claimants. THAT IS THE WAY TO GET THE BANKS TO CO-OPERATE. Hope Martin Lewis does keep his word and he helps you. That would make him a national hero in my books. Good luck Kev

[becky1822]

Alternatively the jhudge may have shares in Lloyds

[calvi36]

I would remind all members that this is a singular action, this is not a group action.Fighting fund is fine.

[TECHSPEC]

Kev - The Civil Proceedure Rules (The Court Rules - in simple terms) were amended in October 2006 so that there is no longer any liability to pay your opponents legal costs in the event that you lost at Appeal.

 

The same rules regarding costs now apply to Small Claims Appeal cases, as to the Small Claims case itself. Therefore the only expenses you may incur, in the event that you lost, should only be the banks travel expenses in attending the hearing - and by the way they are capped at £50.

 

Therefore the kind offers of financial assistance from other members of the public may not actually be that necessary.

 

Bluenose1

 

The offers of help, are surely to make sure that he recieves good legal support, not just for the court costs.

 

If this is to goto appeal, he may not want to go in again on his own, and we would not want him to.

 

We need any appeal to be water tight, and that will need the backing of a decent solicitor.

[nicsussex]

We need any appeal to be water tight, and that will need the backing of a decent solicitor.

 

Not so - I am sure that Kevin will have learned a lot from this and that he will get all the support that he needs from here.

[hayesharry]

this message is 2 Kevin.

£20 from me towards ur appeal fund and 4 a good solicitor.

lets have this going.

Please don't give up. I know that u will win in the end.

I can tell u my own story that we made it to uk 30 years ago. If u consider all the odds, my mother

could only afford 2 eat once every 3 to 4 days and my father was 11 when both his parents died.

he used 2 sleep in a grave yard a lot of times.

 

SO FIGHT ON WITH A SOLICITOR. MAKE UR CASE WATER TIGHT.

A WIN WILL MAKE U FILL SO GREAT.....................

 

[SWTech]

Sincerely hope you go for the appeal Kev....we don't have much money, but my partner and I are willing to donate a tenner each.

 

Nicsussex: I agree with you, but he will still need some money to pay for a good barrister on his day in court. I agree with other speculation that he may get it for free given the profile of the case which will allow the barrister in question some free adverts, but he still needs to be prepared.

 

Go for it Kev....I'm sure if it came down to it, we'd all be waiting outside the Appeal Courts on the day. I certainly would.

[nicsussex]

OK - I give up - he doesn't need a solicitor, a barrister or anything else - he needs the support of everyone here - that is all. Trust I don't have to repeat this again.

[TECHSPEC]

OK - I give up - he doesn't need a solicitor, a barrister or anything else - he needs the support of everyone here - that is all. Trust I don't have to repeat this again.

 

Yes you do - as he had the support of this site last time.

 

I don't think Martin's offer of help is to add a few posts on here. He is offering financial support to ensure that he wins. If it was me, then i for one would not want to go near a court after what has just happened, unless i recieved the full backing that is currently on offer.

 

Whatever Kevin decides, the fact is that he has the support of this site, which goes without question, aswell as the many offers of financial help, should he need them at any stage.

 

I cannot see why that bothers you.

[Gez]

Kev, a week or so ago he had to bump his posts, now he is the most "famous" man in finance. This must be quite overwhelming for him. Lets support him in every way. Whatever you do mate, shoot for the stars or just be Kev again, you got our unrelenting support

[hondamad21]

Hi kev,

 

Just wanted to wish you best of luck!!!

 

Here to support morally & financially if required.

 

Hondamad

[doo]

Kev, ditto above and good luck

[TANZARELLI]

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