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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2050/article/10/made

 

 

Fees, Charges and Expenses

 

 

10. No person shall be entitled to charge, or recover from, a tenant any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress, or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those authorised by the tables in Appendix 1 to these Rules.

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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2050/article/10/made

 

 

Fees, Charges and Expenses

 

 

10. No person shall be entitled to charge, or recover from, a tenant any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress, or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those authorised by the tables in Appendix 1 to these Rules.

 

amazing! that could be the key ive been looking for days!

 

thanks!!!!!!!

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your bailiff knows 100% legislation does not allow a van fee or a Hedder H fee to be charged on the same day as a levy (if he doesn't then she should not be a certificated bailiff)

 

no wonder bailiffs get away with so much when councils like this just don't give a xxxx you have been overcharged on 2 accounts by nearly £300 do not give up on this if need be go to the ombudsman

 

 

 

 

 

have a read of this i know it about PCN

 

In the Central London County Court - Case No 8CL51015 - Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). Before District Judge Advent 9th & 24th September 2008

2. The Fee Regulations provide for a distinction between the levying of distress and removal of goods. There is a gap between the two stages. The purpose of this "gap" is to allow the debtor to make payment of what is due after the first stage.

 

 

 

for council tax the fee legistation is

C For one attendance with a vehicle with a view to the removal of goods (where, following the levy, goods are not removed

 

 

In the Central London County Court - Case No 8CL51015 - Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). Before District Judge Advent 9th & 24th September 2008

 

Mr Culligan challenged the bailiffs fees & charges imposed by Mr Simkin and Marstons when levying distress and seeking to remove Mr Culligans car for non-payment of a Penalty Charge Notice issued by the London Borough of Camden.

 

The Judgment goes a long way to clarify exactly what a Bailiff can charge for levying distress. Bailiffs have always sought to charge for fixing an immobilisation device by clamping a vehicle, and an attendance to remove. These charges in Anthony Culligan's case were £200 (£100 for the clamp and £100 for attendance to remove). The Bailiffs have argued that the Fee Regulations permit them to make a charge for levying distress (that is 28% on the first £200 demanded, and for removing goods, or attending to remove goods where no goods are removed, reasonable costs and charges). Bailiffs have claimed that the costs of putting on a clamp, etc. are costs to be included in attending to remove where no goods are removed, if payment is made before the vehicle concerned is removed.

 

DJ Avent, after considering Case Law and Statute, has found that the purpose of putting on a clamp is to "impound" the vehicle and is not part of the costs of removal. This is because:-

 

1. The Bailiff's obligation is to secure the vehicle, and the simplest and easiest way to do this is to "immobilise" it so it cannot be driven away. This is effectively the equal of impounding the goods.

 

2. The Fee Regulations provide for a distinction between the levying of distress and removal of goods. There is a gap between the two stages. The purpose of this "gap" is to allow the debtor to make payment of what is due after the first stage.

 

DJ Avent says at paragraph 50 of his Judgment:-

 

"Accordingly, in my judgment the bailiff should not and, as a matter of law cannot take any steps to remove goods until he has given the debtor a reasonable opportunity to pay what is due at the time of seizure. This being so I cannot see that Form 7 can or should include any costs of removal. Mr. Simkin included on the Form 7 he produced for Mr. Culligan the sum of £100 in respect of the immobilisation device. If, as the Defendants now argue, that was part of the removal expenses, it should never have been included in Form 7".

 

The District Judge went on to find that the application of the clamp falls within the act of levying distress and does not form part of the removal process, whatever the Bailiff's Contract with Camden says.

 

The Bailiff also charged Anthony Culligan £100 for the " reasonable costs " of removing the vehicle (although the vehicle was never actually removed) in that a tow truck was called and actually arrived at Anthony Culligan's home. Because the Bailiff produced no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived at he was unable to show that it was reasonable.

 

The District Judge in his conclusion says:

 

"I am also conscious that my findings in this case ... may have wider consequences and may cause problems for bailiffs because they will not be able to charge for immobilising a vehicle as a separate charge but must include it within the cost of levying distress. To do otherwise would, in my judgment, be unlawful... I would also add that if the Defendant or either of them in the light of this judgment now continued to apply such charges in the manner in which they have done up to now and, specifically, charge fees of £100 for applying an immobilisation device then that would amount to conduct which may well then found a legitimate complaint because in my judgment it would be unlawful....".

 

What this means in effect is that Bailiffs who continue to make unlawful charges may be guilty of misconduct and have their Certificates removed.

 

You should know however that Marstons obtained permission to appeal from the District Judge. His reasons for granting the permission were :

 

"The bailiff was following the practice in force for 15 years. No one has challenged the right to charge for wheelclamping before.

My decision that they cannot do so (at least to the extent that they have charged until now) not only affects the London Borough of Camden but also every Borough with de-criminalised parking.

 

Accordingly, it has significant local and possible National implications and that is a compelling reason why an appeal should be heard"

 

Finally, Camden now as a matter of urgency, need to revise their Contract with Bailiffs such as Marston, to take account of the District Judge's Judgment generally, and in particular to remove the authority to charge a fee for an immobilisation device over and above that provided for in the Statutory Fee Regulations.

 

London Motorists Action group

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Re; hallowitch

 

It seems there must be hundreds of thousands of cases where bailiffs, abetted by councils, are applying charges unlawfully for advertising levied goods (Head H) and attending with a view to remove goods (Head C).

 

If the statistics published on Rossendale’s website are anything to go by, it would not be unreasonable to assume the figure could run into hundreds of thousands throughout the country, if not millions for unlawfully charging the head H fee.

 

It states on Rossendale’s website that where goods are actually removed by bailiffs, this nationally only represents 1% of cases. 1.4 million council tax Liability Orders were issued to bailiffs last year, so if all councils allowed their contracted bailiff firms to routinely charge this fee when no goods have been removed, then potentially, a maximum of 1.386 million could have been defrauded with this charge last year.

 

Freedom of Information requests should be put to all our councils to determine just how endemic this systematic fraud is.

Edited by outlawla
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well this tickled me... found a series on youtube by ITV Series called Whistleblowers about Bailiffs

 

It's in 4 parts... it shows the dispicable behaviour of a bailiff working on behalf of Rossendales...

 

BUT, this is the funny bit, i wish he had done the levy on my car, because he doesn't apply the "Attending with a vehicle with a view to remove removing"..

 

Skip through 1min 50 secconds to see where he levies a car..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNvXpiMWW5Q

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Hallowitch to the rescue, she comes up with the right stuff at the nick of time, saying that I thought I added that link, Got me on a bad day :lol:

 

The OP has now the info he needs to pass this to the council to be included in his complaint.

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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2050/article/10/made

 

 

Fees, Charges and Expenses

 

 

10. No person shall be entitled to charge, or recover from, a tenant any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress, or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those authorised by the tables in Appendix 1 to these Rules.

 

Im starting to draft my email to the LA.

 

The link above seems to clearly backup what I am trying to defend but my concern is that the "Instrument" is titled "The Distress for Rent Rules 1988"

 

Im concerned about the word "Rent" - can i be sure this is the correct instrument to quote?

 

Thanks

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just had the following response from the LA regarding my request for the fee schedule.

 

here is their answer...

 

"Further to your e-mail below I made contact with Mr XXXX XXXXXXX today about your request for the fee schedules. His response is set out below:

 

The fee schedule is prescribed in Government Regulations and is not specified by the Council. Swift Credit Services have informed the Council that the reasonable fees they charge that are prescribed in Regulations for the attendance at a property with a view to removing goods is £170.00.

 

The council feels these are reasonable. However if Mr XXXXXX thinks they are not reasonable then he can challenge the fees through an application to the County Court.

 

Mr XXXXXX can view the Regulations relating to fees on the following Government website. The first link is to the original Regulations made in 1992 and the second and third links are amendments to the Regulations whereby the fees were altered/increased.

 

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/schedule/5/made

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/773/schedule/made

www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2004/1013/regulation/3/made

 

Any thoughts peeps?

 

Court time?

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"Any thoughts peeps?"

 

Yes, get that online claim going now and reclaim the bit you believe is unfair. My betting is that they will refund the whole lot when they get the summons because if you win that will curtail them from just making up amounts to charge.

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I still have to go through Stage 3 of the complaint with the LA I believe?

 

The above response was to a request for their fee schedule.....

 

I want to get to the bottom of this not just for me to get a refund but to stop this practice and get everyone who has been hit by these charges refunded going back to the beginning of time.

 

Ignoring that I believe the amount charged is unreasonable, it seems totally incredible that a bailiff can drive around in little van slapping levies on people's vehicles, charging a levy fee AND a "attending with a vehicle with a view to removing" fee on the same visit and then come back in 5 days and charge a further fee for actually removing the levied items.

 

totally incredible....

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...."Further to your e-mail below I made contact with Mr XXXX XXXXXXX today about your request for the fee schedules. His response is set out below:

 

The fee schedule is prescribed in Government Regulations and is not specified by the Council. Swift Credit Services have informed the Council that the reasonable fees they charge that are prescribed in Regulations for the attendance at a property with a view to removing goods is £170.00. The council should specify to Swift Credit Services what reasonable fees they charge, not the other way round. The enforcement fees are in law, the council's.

 

The council feels these are reasonable. However if Mr XXXXXX thinks they are not reasonable then he can challenge the fees through an application to the County Court. It is not for the council to feel that the fees are reasonable, they are the council's fees.

 

Mr XXXXXX can view the Regulations relating to fees on the following Government website. The first link is to the original Regulations made in 1992 and the second and third links are amendments to the Regulations whereby the fees were altered/increased.

 

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/schedule/5/made

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/773/schedule/made

www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2004/1013/regulation/3/made

 

Just read through those links (admittedly very quickly) and saw nothing indicating that the reasonable fees they can charge for the attendance at a property with a view to removing goods is £170.00.

 

 

 

Any thoughts peeps?

 

Court time?

 

Lock them up!

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Keep escalating the complaint ever upward, copied to MP

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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There is a lot of confusion in this thread and I believe we need to get back to basics.

 

The Bailiff has claimed a 1st Visit & 2nd Visit Fee, on his 3rd Visit to you he has claimed a Levy Fee, ATR Fee & a Head H Fee. The question has to be was the car he levied on in evidence on either the 1st or 2nd Visit? If so why did he not levy on it on either of those 2 visits? Or did he do it this way in order to garner more fees?

 

PT

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Looking at the Header H Fee he has charged, you have to look to the Regulations to see whether this can be charged.

 

Header H Fee states:

Where no sale takes place by reason of payment or tender in the circumstances referred to in Regulation 45(4);

Regulation 45 (4) then states:

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

 

What this means:

The Bailiff seizes your goods and as you fail to pay the monies outstanding he reattends and removes the said goods and a sale is arranged for them. In the meantime you then pay the outstanding monies including all fees. The sale then has to be cancelled and you are then free to collect the goods.

 

Remember it clearly states within the above "goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor" so to have a collection there must have been a removal previously. There is also the provision that the fee is to cover the advertising costs to the Bailiff, so it must be worth asking where this was done.

 

PT

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There is a lot of confusion in this thread and I believe we need to get back to basics.

 

agreed

 

The Bailiff has claimed a 1st Visit & 2nd Visit Fee, on his 3rd Visit to you he has claimed a Levy Fee, ATR Fee & a Head H Fee.

 

correct, if an ATR fee is what they describe as "attending with a vehicle with a view to remove"

 

The question has to be was the car he levied on in evidence on either the 1st or 2nd Visit?

 

I was in when the bailiff attended the 1st time so my car would have been parked outside on the public road.

I was not in when the bailiff attended the 2nd time, found the letter on the floor, i am not sure if I was out in the car or not.

 

If so why did he not levy on it on either of those 2 visits? Or did he do it this way in order to garner more fees?

 

I have no idea why he didn't levy the first time.

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The purpose of a visit from a Bailiff for the collection of Council Tax is for him to"levy distress" on your goods in order to force you into paying in full or entering a payment arrangement.

SCHEDULE 5 - CHARGES CONNECTED WITH DISTRESS

A. For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (whether the levy is made or not):

 

Therefore if the vehicle was available at the time of the 1st Visit he should have seized it then. However if he had done this he would have had to forego his 1st & 2nd Visit charges, total £42-50. It follows that the Bailiff is guilty of garnering his fees to make a financial gain for himself & his Company. In my view he has committed a cardinal sin.

 

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just been told I cannot take my complaint to Stage 3....

 

any thoughts? :mad2:

 

Thank you for your e-mail dated 8 May 2012 in which you set out thereasons why you wish to take your complaint to Stage 3. Based on yourresponse it is not appropriate for those matters to be dealt with under Stage 3of the Corporate Complaint Policy or Procedure. I will explain why this is thecase.

 

The Council’s Corporate Complaint Policy and Process includes adefinition of what is regarded as a complaint. It also lists matters whichwould not be considered as a complaint. This includes the following:

 

·Adisagreement with, or refusal to accept a Government regulation which theCouncil is applying (example – application of enforcement regulations)

 

In bullet point 2 of your e-mail dated 8 May 2012 you state "Iconsider that the levy and the "attending with a vehicle with a viewto removing" should not happen on the same visit." I have beenadvised by Mr X XXXXXXX, Revenues Manager, that there is no discretion on thisand that under Schedule 5 of the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement)Regulations 1992 it specifically states that it should happen.Youdisagree with it - however the Council’s representatives are applying aregulation which by law they have to do.

 

·Decisionsin respect of which the person has a separate formal right of appeal or review(examples – planning appeals, housing benefit and Council Tax reviews)

 

I have already advised you in my e-mail dated 8 May 2012 that ifyour reason for going to Stage 3 related to the level of fees thenthis should be challenged via the County Court. Bullet point 1 ofyour e-mail dated 8 May 2012 refers to the fees for "attending with avehicle with a view to removing" being unreasonable. Therefore thiselement of your complaint needs to referred to the County Court and notvia Stage 3 of the Council's Corporate Complaint Policy and Process.

 

However if you feel aggrieved at this decision you can take up thismatter with the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales, at the address shownbelow:

 

1 Ffordd yr Hen Gae, Pencoed,CF35 5LJ

 

Telephone No. 0845 601 0987

 

E-mail: [email protected]

 

Website: www.ombudsman-wales.org.uk

 

If you have any other reasons for wanting to go to Stage 3 - pleaselet me know. I can consider them and advise whether they could be investigated.

 

Yours sincerely

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.....The Council’s Corporate Complaint Policy and Process includes a definition of what is regarded as a complaint. It also lists matters which would not be considered as a complaint......

 

Unbelievable!!!!

 

The council is dictating to you what you can and cannot be aggrieve by.

 

This is a classic example of how the British public have somehow been indoctrinated to believe that a complaint must conform to some standard for it to be valid and qualify for an organisation’s consideration.

 

This is madness! You can't complain about something you are aggrieved by, you have to complain about something the council allows you to complain about.

 

Remember this is the council's corporate complaint policy, not yours.

 

I notice they haven't made a comment about the head H charge...

 

The unreasonable vehicle fees are the council's which they are responsible for authorising so they're fobbing you off with the county court referral.

 

What about the case law in an earlier post (Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1......)? Have you quoted that to them?

 

"
2. The Fee Regulations provide for a distinction between the levying of distress and removal of goods. There is a gap between the two stages. The purpose of this "gap" is to allow the debtor to make payment of what is due after the first stage
."

 

 

EDIT:

 

Remember this:

 

The purpose of a visit from a Bailiff for the collection of Council Tax is for him to"levy distress" on your goods in order to force you into paying in full or entering a payment arrangement.

SCHEDULE 5 - CHARGES CONNECTED WITH DISTRESS

A. For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (whether the levy is made or not):

 

Therefore if the vehicle was available at the time of the 1st Visit he should have seized it then. However if he had done this he would have had to forego his 1st & 2nd Visit charges, total £42-50. It follows that the Bailiff is guilty of garnering his fees to make a financial gain for himself & his Company. In my view he has committed a cardinal sin.

 

PT

Edited by outlawla
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I would take this to the ombudsman, no matter how much you are going to complain to the council, they will find a loop to satisfy them that they are in the right.

 

You need to ask though, why they have not answered about the Head H fee. etc

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello again,

 

I seem to have lost this battle.

 

My concern now is that I may have incurred additional bailiff fees while attempting to fight this.

 

Might I now be liable for an additional £11 a day for every day that I have been disputing this?

 

I am referring to a pararagh on the reverse of the unsigned WPA agreement where it states:

 

"For the possession of goods as described in paragraph 2(2) - (i) for close possession ( the main in possession to provide his own board) £14.00 per day. (ii) for walking possession: £11.00"

 

Thanks in advance

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Are you going to contact the ombudsman?

 

I cannot see on what premise I have to take this forward.

 

I cannot find any evidence that a Levy & a "Attending with a vehicle with a view to removing" cannot take place on the same day

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I will try and explain this the best I can;

The point of a WPO is so items are left at the property as a ransom, so basically this gives you time to pay or a payment plan is set up. They cannot charge you for for attending to remove when an agreement has been placed for the items to stay in the property.

There is nothing in sch 5 to allow this fee.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/schedule/5/made

 

If the council are not allowing a stage 3 complaint then you have even more cause to complain to the ombudsman

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