Received a claim from arrow global at Northampton CC really dont know where to go

[AndyOrch]

Short email/telecon asking them if they intend to comply with the DJ XXXXXXXX Order dated xxth xxxx 2012 with regards to their WS and Standard Disclosure by the 6th July 2012.You will allow a further 7 days at which time failure will leave you no option but to make application to the Court to compel compliance or strike out.

 

Send it now that will make them twitch over the weekend:wink:

[phaitun]

Well i called them, spoke to a very nice polite lady who confirmed that they had recieved the Judges order and they would be sending out the required statements and documents to both myself and the Court on Monday (funnily enough)

 

I did inform her that should they fail to disclose their staatements and documents within 7 days then i will have no other option but to seek an order striking out their claim.

 

She said she was putting a note on the account to that effect.

 

Hopefully some progress ;-)

 

Thanks to all who helped here!

[phaitun]

Will also send an email outlining the conversation and my notice that i will apply to have the claim struck out if no docs within 7 days.

[AndyOrch]

Excellent phaitun lets see what transpires.

 

Andy

[phaitun]

Still no Docs sent today, i will call the Court tommorrow and see where they are with the documents. If no documents are lodged at Court do i go ahead for applying for the strikeout? i told them i would allow 7 days but the nice lady did say she would send them yesterday, i think i should wait but i am getting annoyed with their disregard for the law, the court and the consumer.

 

 

In relation to the other smalleralleged debt, they sent an application form after receiveing my defence bundle - huh great!

 

I am sure they think i will just give up and roll over. I will call the Court and see if they have anything further to add on that one also!

 

Why do these DCA's behave like this? Such a nice day today too

[phaitun]

Well i called the Court. No docs lodged there, no statements no reply to my defence. Hearing still set for 3rd August. This was in reply to the Halifax claim @ 3700. I willw ait till friday then they will ahve had their 7 days and then i shall submit my request for strikeout on Monday next week

 

The other smaller claim, they have apparently replied to the court regarding my initial defence, however the lady from the court wouldnt release to me what that reply was without a letter sent into the Court from me requesting it. There has been no directions from the judge on the smaller one, its seems to 'be in limbo' was the quote from the lady who was helpful.

 

I asked if they had paid the hearing fee and she stated that there has been no action on the smaller one since we sent in AQ's and i sent my draft order.

 

Will query it when i hand in my letter to request the defence reply

 

Plus i sent a letter to Arrow Global today telling them that the submissiin by them of an application for a credit card did not comply with the CPR or CCA and that i would let the Court know. I also stated that if they did not have the docs, would never have any docs then they should tell me this in writing asap. wil wait and see what reaction that brings with them.

[phaitun]

So i take the bull by the horns,

call Arrow Global and speak with their legal team,

some lady as last friday eveneing.

 

I asked her where their statements and docs were and she stated that they were being prepared,

i asked her to confirm that she told me they would be sent out on friday and she confirmed.

 

I then told her that if i didnt get the docs by tommorrow i would seek a strike out, she said ok.

 

during the converstaion she intitmated that i would most probably get presented with the docs on the hearing

as when i reminded her of the hearing date she said if theres a problem before then they would let me know.

 

I told her that they should let me know if they cant supply the requested docs and she kind of brushed this off.

[phaitun]

So they plan an Ambush. I will try and be prepared. the seven days i allowed for the stateements and docs before i apply for strikeout elpases tommorrow. I will apply for a strikeout monday attaching my email i sent on friday and a further letter to them i am sending today asking for the statements and supporting documents.

[Bandit127]

Just read through your thread phaitun.

 

I wish you the very best in the coming days. I hope you get an outcome that justly reflects the shoddy treatment you have had from the creditors and their representatives.

 

But I suspect (like you) you might get ambushed. You are proactive and will be prepared for that I think.

 

That the system can put so many trapwires in the way of a defendant LiP and give creditor's solicitors so much leeway staggers belief.

 

I truly hope you achieve justice. For you - but also for the future battles many of the members and lurkers who are reading this thread are likely to face. And may well have thrown in the towel faced with the battle that you have fought.

 

Thanks for your story and your fortitude.

 

Good luck.

 

Bandit

[phaitun]

Well i guess my perserverance in chasing them has worked, following thursdays phone call i get a witness statement sent to house today had to sign for it.

 

Guess what - no docs other than what they sent me already i.e an agreement and the alleged statements with 2 missing pages.

 

Their statement was very poor in content dont know if i should summarise it here or not.

 

I am however confused as it was written by their 'litigation executive' what ever that means. And it lacks any real argument or clarity.

 

I wonder if they have a plan because either they -

1. Havent got a clue, as no default notice = no enforcement, plus they have completely disregarded their obligations.

2. know or believe that the judge will find in their favour

3. Think i will give up now they have sent their statement and exhibited the same docs they have sent me already

4. Are just taking are chance with the judges lottery

5. Will withdraw on the day or just not turn up

 

I dont think that by relying solely on an agreement without t&c's, without a copy or recon DN or any doc referring to a DN or even a specific a date of when a DN was allegedly sent, without a valid NOA, their dates seem to be wrong and 3 out 5 pages of summarised statements (with 2 missing pages). I have asked for breakdowns of all charges,interest etc is enough to win.

 

Could do with a little encouragement now as i am unsure as to whether this is going the right way or not.

[citizenB]

You can if you wish put in a supplementary Witness statement in rebuttal! As long as it is with the court and the opposition 7 days prior to any hearing.

[phaitun]

Thanks for the advice citizenB however the hearing is on Friday morning so not enough time to prepare and serve.

 

Their statement refers to items i have already conceded i.e the agreement does in fact exist and appears to fulfil the CCA obligations (dated 1999). However my defence states they have never proved ownership or termianation of this debt.

 

They state that on the balance of probability the claim should stand i.e. they have produced a lawful agreement and 3 out of 5 pages of statements.

 

Their statement refers to me not replying satisfactorily to their corrspondence before and after their LBA.

 

And thats basically it, with a history of how they came about the alleged debt. Their statement was 2 pages.

 

My statement of defence is 11 pages, dealing with their poor POC, their lack of documents in support of their claim prior to them issuing it, i deny i owe them any money and ever had any agreement with them and they have not ever proved it.

There has been no default and they cannot prove it, they have not isseud a DN and provided no record to the Court as to a DN or termination actually being served.

 

I deal with their lack of disclosure despite 10 atempts to get documents, their unwillingness to allow me further time to prepare defence upon reciept of their docs before being pressd into submitting an Emabarresed defence due to the time constraits of the system - yet they stated they needed more time to obtain the docs relied upon.

 

I deal with the lack of NOA and their legal obligations under The Law of Property Act.I deal with their sketchy dates - referrring to items being sent 'on or around' particular dates i.e no specifics.

 

I deal with the fact they changed solicitor and the fact they now use a 'specilaist litigation' department and why this was so half way through a claim. (Bit of a rant) I inform the Court that i have tried every lawful way and means to get adequate disclosure and they still only rely on a photocopied agreement and statements with missing pages or have refused and avoided these requests.

 

I deal with the miising pages of statements and the requirement of both parties to know what is in these statements, how the amount claimed can be challenged how can we be sure that the amount claimed has not been settled and that information is not contained within the missing pages.

 

I deal with the lack of Default notice and the fact there has to have been a default notice sent and the agreement terminated before any enforcement action can be taken by a claimant.

 

I also mention the fact that Claimant is a 'professional claimant' and has pursued this matter through the courts without adhering to the 'overiding objectives' wheras i as a litigant in person have fulfilled my obligations dutiffuly and exhibited the letters and my requests for the attention of teh judge to assess the 'unreasonable' behavious of this claimant

 

Will see how it goes. Got nothing to lose at this stage seeing as it obvious to me they were hoping for a default judgement in the first place anyway.

 

Also does anybody know what the phrase 'Charged Off' means in realtion to an Original Creditor dealing with a debt that ahs allegedly not been paid?

[phaitun]

Hey Bandit, once its all done, whatever the outcome at least i will have had my day and will come out victorious in the knowledge that i fought my hardest and that i also informed the Courts of the behaviour of the DCA's.

 

The battle may be won or lost on Friday but the war certainly is not over as far as i am concerned. There is a matter of complaints to FSA, SRA and FOS regarding the behaviour of these DCA's. Plus if there are any grounds for appeal if the Judge rules in their favour then i certainly will pursue them.

 

This site has been an invaluable assett and i appreciate the help and guidance thus far.

[phaitun]

Ok does anybody know what i need to do at the Hearing on Friday

[AndyOrch]

Just attend the hearing and stick to the points of your defence and the responses the claimant has made, don't be side tracked.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

Phaitan, I agree with andy, there is little more you can do now. It certainly looks as though you have pretty much covered everything, anyway.

 

Bryan Carter will always back out once challenged which is why there has been a half time substitution.

 

A lot of DCAs now use a Solicitor to initiate the claim, then take it back and use their "litigation specialists".. these are basically professional LiPs. Probably paralegals, or people who have a basic knowledge of law.

 

It is my understanding that there might have to be at least one qualified solicitor in the office, but not necessarily dealing with your particular claim.

 

Wescott is one such company. They use Nelson Guest ( who sends out the letters with all the legal headings) but it is actually a Wescott rep who turns up in court, if they havent withdrawn before the actual hearing.

[phaitun]

citizenB, Andy thanks for your support. I am ok about Friday will see how the Judge sees things.

I have balanced my chakra's and wont go off on a rant. I have my script prepared and the questions i want to ask in cross examination of their witness, a lot of questions regarding the documents they sent, a lot more regarding the ones they havent sent and the 'missing' financials.

 

They wont have an easy ride.

 

I agree about the Solicitors, just makes a mockery of the system.

 

They themselves do not mention Bryan Carter in their statement at all, only state they used Fredericksons International in an attempt to recover the Debt but then changed to an in house 'Specialist Litigation' department.

 

So they have at least identified that either Carter is part of Fredricksons or is a subcontractor on behalf of Fredricksons. I wonder how many complaints that the SRA and FOS get regarding both of those outfits?

 

When this is done i will try a Freedom of Information request for some facts and figures regarding complaints and iwill also have a face to face with my MP about these companies and their tactics.

[citizenB]

Wishing you the very best for Friday

[phaitun]

Well what can i say, the Judge was very nice, very fair.

Arrow had their case presented by a local advocate or litigation spaecialist who i guess only read the file this morning.

 

Judge asked us both if we had all our evidence, i stated yes, AG rep provided both the judge an I with a NOA dated Jan 2011 addressed at my old address.

They also stated they did not have a DN and would request an adjournment to get it, i told the Judge i would object to an an adjournment as they have had enough time to ge theor house in order.

The Judge was of the opinion throughout the hearing that they have had more than enough time and that i have requested docvs enough times also.

Judge was not impressed with the way they started a claim without any docs and then applied later to the OC for Docs upon a defence being entered, gave a word of warining to representative to advise Arow Global ref this practice.

 

He started out by stating this hearing today would be a final hearing, then sums up the case as he saw it allowing us both to speak at relevant points. Then he seemed to have allowed a stay/adjournment - contradicting his earlier statement that it would be a final hearing.

 

Summary of today - Stayed with an unless order to strike out if they do not provide - the DN, a statement outlining why there is discrepancy on dates regarding NOA and also provided the 2 missing statments within 6 weeks of today. The Rep wanted 8-12 weeks the Judge said they have had long enough but wanted to be fair.

 

They produced a NOA this morning that they allegedly sent to my old address back in Jan 2010 stating they acquired the debt 8/10/2010.

 

I questioned the date as Carters previous letter feb 2012 stated that it was acquired in August 2011. Judge ruled on unless order that they must provide a statment outlining why the discrepancy. I also asked if Halifax the OC provided the date of sale would this help the Judge, the Judge said i could ask them as i would probably get it easier.

 

The DN - the representative tried to play along the lines of a technicality however the judge wanted it - unless order for it to be served.

 

The missing statement pages - the rep stated it was probably a photocopying error on behalf of the OC, the judge acepted this as a 'possible reason' and included the fact he wanted the missing statements on his unless order.

 

The Judge asked me if i had a loan with Halifax i stated yes, i had troubles previously and used a DMC and that relationship ended and i dont know if the loan was paid or not - 1999 loan.

 

So we go into Round 2. SAR to Halifax and AG today methinks

 

Interesting day.

 

Can i submit more evidence once i get the full SAR from them all?

[dx100uk]

well done

 

i bet they withdraw now

 

dx

[Old Cogger]

Withdraw? = what are you on about? they might run so fast they win stick of rock!!

[phaitun]

I was a little stressed this morning howvwer i read through my statements and script a few times before going in, i was confident and assertive and answered teh Judge honestly when asked about the Original Loan. I kept on pressing the fact i had requested disclsoure ten times + if you count the draft order for directions i submitted earlier in the claim at AQ stage.

[phaitun]

I asked the rep when did AG apply for the docs from the OC and in fairness he couldnt answer and the judge also helped him along by stating the rep offers his service at that Court to numerous other agencies also and was not party to the full facts of the case. I would have loved a true employee of AG to have been there as i ahd a lot of Questions for them ;-) They would have been made to look a little foolish when i asked them and they couldnt answer.

[phaitun]

Will wait in obeyance now of the Judges orders and see how this pans out. The Judge asked me regarding any claims for time off or travel parking i was hionest and said no - he seemed to appreciate that honesty

[Mike_hawk]

Appears a good result for the day Phaitun

 

Still not read the whole of your thread [yet], certainly pays to keep asking questions of the claimant and testing the veracity of its case

 

Well done for keeping things together under pressure