Received a claim from arrow global at Northampton CC really dont know where to go

[phaitun]

What is a Part 23?

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Phaitun

 

Part 23, general rule for applications.......

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part23

 

Depending on whether there is a costs order following the strike out you may have to make an application for costs at £45.00.

 

If the previous order was for a strike 'without further order' it means that costs will not be deemed ordered or considered without a further app from you.

 

If there is no further order you'd need to apply on a N244, I believe in your case you would need to quote CPR3.4(3) within your app

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03#IDAMLWKC

Power to strike out a statement of case

 

3.4

 

(1) In this rule and rule 3.5, reference to a statement of case includes reference to part of a statement of case.

 

(2) The court may strike out(GL) a statement of case if it appears to the court –

(a) that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim;

 

(b) that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; or

 

© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

 

 

(3) When the court strikes out a statement of case it may make any consequential order it considers appropriate.

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Phaitun

 

Think the sites doing odd things today, I can see your reply in my e-mail notification but can't view it on here?

 

Anyway, back to your question...... you would be asking for costs to be summarily assessed and ordered on the standard basis or in the alternative costs to be assessed if not agreed. I think the court would go for the latter but ask for either/or....... it's within the courts discretion to grant so you may as well ask for summary assessment and include your bill of costs.

 

It's always useful to get a costs order granted if only for leverage in disposing of an application from them to reinstate.

[phaitun]

Thanks Mike, i have made an assessment of the costs and time incurred in this case and my time spent is well into 70+ hours now as a LIP without the cost of printing and postage.

 

I have sent the claimant no less than 14 letters and various documents requesting disclosure and used these as well as research, travelling to and attending court 5 hours of my time (not loss of earnings) etc to base my costs schedule, it now stands at over £1200 and is growing all the time!

 

Also i can prove from OC Screen prints supplied with SAR results that they applied for the required documents one month after the claim was issued by them and definately after i had submitted my notice of intention to defend and my online embarressed defence!

 

If i had used a solicitor/barrister to defend then my bill from eietehr of these would have been much higher i guess.

 

The 2 x letters per month (averaged out claim started in feb) sent would not be excessive as i have consistently tried to get full disclosure since they issued their claim and this was the thrust of my defence.

 

Plus i have drafted an order for directions at AQ, further CPR 18 request and further statement to object to their application for an extension.

 

What is the difference between summary costs and standard costs?

 

Are the Courts supportive of such an amount of costs? Do they approve such applications? I dont want to get the Judge annoyed just in case they apply to re-instate.

[phaitun]

It also looks like the OC had informed the claimant that they changed computer systems and that the original DN (and details of such) was no longer available, this was back in March according to the computer entries!

 

Seems like dirty business by claimaint.

 

Do i write a summary of my findings and evidence as a witness statement in support of my application?

 

Also is it correct protocol to now report the DCA for bringing the claim without sight of the Docs to FSA/FOS etc? As it can now be proven!

 

I want to nail these mongrels, as always the devil is in the detail and SAR has provided some golden nuggets.

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Phaitun

 

Its a claim in excess of 3k, so its certainly within the courts discretion to grant LiP costs of circa 1.2k given the conduct of the claimant and proportionality.

 

Summary assessment is when the court considers your bill, whether at a hearing or by application and grants relief to all or a percentage of those costs by way of an order.

 

The alternative would be for the court to grant relief to an order for costs to be agreed or assessed..... agreed - you send a draft bill to the other side and try to reach agreement..... if that fails you begin the process for detailed assessment and [assuming parties still can't agree] it goes back before the court for the assessment.

 

You don't need to go into too much detail, in effect all you are doing is reminding the court of your costs in the case and requesting relief.

 

Just needs a couple of lines within the application stating what you are requesting and why, you can enclose a witness statement and draft bill in support.

 

Try Wonky's thread from post #594 onwards for an example w/s http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?321244-Being-sued-by-Cowboy-Builders-please-help-***-Claim-Struck-Out-***/page30

 

And no, you won't upset the judge

[phaitun]

Thanks Mike

[Mike_hawk]

No probs, remember if you try this route for costs its CPR3.4(3) to quote in your case...... Wonkys was eventually struck out for non payment of fees so there was a different rule applied for hers.

[citizenB]

This is so frustrating that you dont have anything from the court to confirm.

 

If they had discontinued - then at least you would have received notice ?

 

I wonder if it would be worth writing to the court manager asking if they could at least confirm that this has indeed been struck out as per the Judges orders dated XYZ ?

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Cb

 

The problem with most of the cases on here that are struck out is that they tend to be off the back of an unless. 'unless blah blah blah the case shall be struck out without further order'

 

The defendant should still receipt a copy of the judgment 'if' the court actually bothers to serve, the claimant however [assuming MCOL account] would receive pretty much live data to their account identifying the time and date the case was struck.

 

Absent any copy judgment you'd tend to think let sleeping dogs lie, if the claimant realises they don't have a case they certainly would. However; unless costs had previously been summarily assessed in the case and were drafted within the previous unless order [unusual], the winning party would now need to apply for costs as they don't fall within the deemed criteria as in the case of a discontinuance.

 

Bliddy frustrating really, you'd think if you won your case there'd be an automatic right to recover costs

[phaitun]

Well in was up till 2.30 am sorting out the costs averaging (quite conservatively) time spent, bearing in mind i had to hand deliver stuff twice because the Court lost/messed up the service of statement/draft order at AQ stage and i was served an order striking out my defence etc.

 

My total hours spent fighting this case, researching Law, drafting, posting and filing documents has been 122 hours (including drafting costs bill and statement etc)

 

So that's just over 3 (working) weeks of my life i wont get back.

 

If i was to spend that time studying Law i would be know way near getting a qualification, i reckon as a LIP that's a fair assessment of time given that the case has dragged on for 7 months.

 

Plus the claimant asked for docs from OC end of Feb and received everything that they had on the 1st week of march yet didnt serve the docs on me until early April - 1 month later!

 

During the time they were in possession of the Docs i had sent them 3 letters seeking disclosure, on top of the CCA and CPR requests already served during February. I will include these facts in my request for Costs.

 

They are partly to blame for the costs bill, if they had served upon receipt of the docs from OC and stopped playing games their bill would have been lower.

 

I will pay for a copy of the full file and transcripts from the Court under FOI act, copy and store it in a safe place, submit my costs request and draft schedule etc Monday or Tuesday.

 

I have to hand deliver them as the Court have lost a number of docs and at least i get a receipt when i deliver them personally.

[citizenB]

Hi Cb

 

The problem with most of the cases on here that are struck out is that they tend to be off the back of an unless. 'unless blah blah blah the case shall be struck out without further order'

 

The defendant should still receipt a copy of the judgment 'if' the court actually bothers to serve, the claimant however [assuming MCOL account] would receive pretty much live data to their account identifying the time and date the case was struck.

 

Absent any copy judgment you'd tend to think let sleeping dogs lie, if the claimant realises they don't have a case they certainly would. However; unless costs had previously been summarily assessed in the case and were drafted within the previous unless order [unusual], the winning party would now need to apply for costs as they don't fall within the deemed criteria as in the case of a discontinuance.

 

Bliddy frustrating really, you'd think if you won your case there'd be an automatic right to recover costs

 

 

Many thanks for this - much appreciated.

 

phaitun, that sounds like a very good plan to me

[phaitun]

This is my draft statement to request costs, do i just attach this onto N244? and give the Court Cash/Cheque?

Any comments would be appreciated

 

Statement: Request for Costs

Claimant….

Defendant: Mr Phaitun

Case Number

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

IN THE LOCAL COUNTY COURT

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

ARROW GLOBAL (CLAIMANT)

and

Mr Phaitun

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

WITNESS STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF REQUEST FOR COSTS CPR 3.4.(3)

 

I, Mr Phaitun, of CAG am the Defendant in this case and I will say as follows:

 

1. I am a Litigant in Person of the above address.

 

2. I represent myself as the Defendant against Arrow Global Limited and have done so since the claim was made against me on February 6th 2012.

 

3. I make this statement in support of my request for costs pursuant to CPR 3.4 (3). Please see below for the relevant points as assessed by the defendant:

Power to strike out a statement of case CPR 3.4

 

(1) In this rule and rule 3.5, reference to a statement of case includes reference to part of a statement of case.

 

(2) The court may strike out a statement of case if it appears to the court –

(a) that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim;

(b) that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; or

© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

 

(3) When the court strikes out a statement of case it may make any consequential order it considers appropriate.

 

4. The case for the Claimant was struck out as at 14th September 2012, due to the Claimants conduct and failure to comply with the Orders made by District Judge…… at the hearing on 3rd August 2012

 

 

5. The Defendant seeks to remind the court that the Claimant had failed to comply with Orders dated 3rd August 2012 as made and recorded by Judge…….. on 8th August as follows:

1. The small claim hearing is adjourned generally with a liberty to restore provided that if no such application is issued by 1 October 2012 the claim be struck out without further order.

 

2. Unless the Claimants do by 4.00pm on 14 September disclose to the Defendant and to the Court

(a) a copy of the default notice served

(b) copies of the missing statements of account namely pages 2 and 4

Then the claimants claim be struck out without further order

 

3. (a) By 4.00pm on 14 September the Claimants also do file and serve additional witness evidence dealing with the discrepancy in the date of assignment of this debt (the letter from Bryan Carter solicitors dated 22nd February 2012 giving a date of arrangement of on or around 9 August 2011 and the claimants witness evidence of ARROW GLOBALS AGENT dated 27 July 2012 giving a date of assignment of on or around 8 October 2010).

(b) The same statement do also explain the basis for serving any notice of assignment of the debt upon the defendant at Phaituns old house

Dated 3rd August 2012

 

6. The Defendant further avers that the Claimant, in non-compliance to the above Order/s should be granted no further relief in the case or any matter arising from it.

 

7. In making this request for costs, I attach an exhibit marked (Phaitun/16), as evidence of costs incurred by the Defendant in defending this case.

These costs have arisen as a direct result of the many hours spent in researching matters and points of different aspects of Law together with the complex procedures of the Civil Court, reviewing, considering and generally receiving and filing documents from the claimant, his legal representative and the Court. Costs have been incurred due to time spent with the drafting of requests and formal letters seeking disclosure, drafting and serving defences, compiling a draft order, receiving, completing and serving Allocation Questionnaires and compiling my evidence file.

There are added costs of time spent printing, processing and delivering such documents.

The costs schedule also includes the associated costs of such sundries as postage, ink, paper, envelopes and stationary such as ring binders and document files.

The defendant has been under considerable stress during this case, there have been many hours spent away from the defendant’s family and his business affairs whilst dealing with this matter, those hours can never be claimed back by this defendant.

 

8. I also would like to bring the judges attention to Ex No. ( ) Ref Mk. (Phaitun/17) this is a copy of the computer record of Blair Oliver and Scott - associated collections agents of HBOS/Halifax, who were the Original Creditors in the case.

This computer record shows that the Claimant Arrow Global did in fact apply for the pre requisite documents to make his claim on 29th February 2012. (Almost 1 month after the claim was made)

The claim was made against the claimant on 6th February 2012, therefore it can be clearly proven that the Claimant entered into this claim without any firm proof that the claim was enforceable, lawful and the true amount claimed was in fact correct.

 

9. This exhibit also shows that the debt was sold to Arrow Global on 20th October 2010 and not on 8th October 2010 as evidenced by the Claimants Witness Statement and the notice of assignment served upon the Defendant at the hearing 3rd August 2012.

 

10. This exhibit also shows that the Default Notice was not available to the claimant and also that the claimant at the very least should have been notified of this by the Original Creditor on 6th March 2012, following queries made with the original creditor on 29th February 2012.

 

11. It is also clear from the documents supplied by the Original Creditor Halifax that the Claimant Arrow Global was in fact sent documents including a Consumer Credit Act Agreement and statements on or around 6th March 2012, yet the claimant, for reasons known only to himself has not served the said documents upon the Defendant until almost 1 month later, despite being in breach of the CCA and CPR rules and the defendants numerous and frequent requests for Urgent Disclosure.

 

It is averred by the defendant that the claimant has acted unreasonably throughout this case.

This is further reinforced by the defendants previous witness statements and draft orders submitted to the Court, these statements outlining the fact that despite the numerous and frequent requests for disclosure, despite the defendant reminding the claimant on numerous occasions that he should also be notified in writing as to the existence of such documents that are to be relied upon or not, the claimant continued to pursue his claim.

 

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

 

Signed:

Date: When Submitted

[citizenB]

I will alert andyorch for you.

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Phaitun

 

See what Andy suggests, my own opinion would be to strip out any perceived acknowledgement of indebtedness at 8, 9, 10 & 11

 

The Rule is a may not a must so be cautious of inviting the judge to consider if a costs order is unreasonable by providing too much information

 

Certainly attach a draft bill, any specified value is unlikely to be granted without assessment but it never hurts to ask

 

Yes to the N244.....The fee is £45.00 [i think], check before filing........ fees are here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/586/schedule/made 2.7 is probably the correct one but not 100% on this

Edited October 3, 2012 by Mike_hawk

[phaitun]

to all caggers - thank you for your input and help thus far

 

Will amend and serve accordingly, this site has been great, helped my confidence dealing with the corporations.

 

Now in the process of starting a number of claims one for my self and another for a friend.

[Mike_hawk]

to all caggers - thank you for your input and help thus far

 

Will amend and serve accordingly, this site has been great, helped my confidence dealing with the corporations.

 

Now in the process of starting a number of claims one for my self and another for a friend.

 

Hi Phaitun

 

No rush, wait for a second opinon before filing........ wouldn't want you to waste 45 squid

 

Andy will be back on here in the morning, give him a nudge before you file just in case I missed anything obvious.

 

And yes, I'd have to agree CAG is very empowering

[AndyOrch]

I would agree with Mike far too much information...your application is not a second defence nor a justification of why you should be granted a Costs Order...keep it snappy to the facts and quote the CPR to justify your application.

 

That fee is correct Mike:wink:

 

Regards

 

Andy

[phaitun]

Thanks andy,mike, citizenb. will get it in later

[stillstanding]

Did you get your costs Phaitun as I have just had a similar judgement not complied with and expect the strike out so am considering whether to apply for cost myself?

[phaitun]

Been away from the CAG for a while - lots of personal and work/employment problems at the moment,

 

I have been ill and suffering chronic pain, maybe have arthritis just going through tests not good at 40yrs old , the baby has been ill (usual baby stuff virus', bugs, teeth etc) nothing serious thank god.

 

My Ex wife is getting divorced (very messy) so the two teenage girls are staying with me at the moment.

 

My current wifes new small business been ticking over with a few hiccups that needed attention also.

 

just as i feel i am making headway and getting back on the road more challenges present themselves!!!!

 

Work are being very difficult and i may have some tribunal issues, plus i am considering making a claim from them next year! (will start another thread in employment)

 

Very busy these last few weeks to pay much attention to these claims TBH I am relieved they have been struck out!

 

Not applied for costs as yet for the £3700 claim that AG had struck out for non compliance; mostly because when I wrote to the Court and asked for a letter of confirmation the court replied that the judges original order stood (unless they serve docs, further statement, compliant DN etc he would strike out claim) and that there would be no further order - i took this 'no further order ' to mean no order for costs also - is this correct?

 

The smaller Claim circa £160 - AG did not comply with the unless order by the relevant date and the Court verbally confirmed it was to be struck out when i called them a few days after this date.

 

I don't know if it is worth the hassle going after them for costs, is their a likelihood of success?

 

Is it as straightforward that they had their case/s struck out so they pay my costs (time spent dealing with the matter etc?) it was Small Claims Track, i have prepared everything just had a nightmare few weeks and the costs went out of my head. I have two weeks off after next week leading up to Christmas so will have time to sort out more battles.

[phaitun]

Is there a time limit for a costs claim?

[AndyOrch]

Detailed assessment should be commenced within:

 

• Three months of judgment or direction or order or award of costs (CPR 47.7).

• Three months after the date of an order lifting a stay (CPR 47.7).

• Three months after service of discontinuance or dismissal of application to set aside notice of discontinuance (CPR 47.7).

• Three months after the right to costs arose in respect of the acceptance of an offer to settle or a Part 36 payment into court (CPR 47.7).

Points of dispute should be served within 21 days of receiving notice of commencement of assessment and the accompanying documents (CPR 47.9).

Replies to points of dispute (if any) should be served within 21.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[phaitun]

Thanks Andy, the unless order was made 8th August at a hearing,

 

basically

the case was generally adjourned with the liberty to restore provided no such application was issued by 1st October then the claim be struck out

 

Unless by 14th September the claimant files the docs and further statements

 

they did not serve and I received nothing from the court until i queried it and they said it was truck out and no further order would be made

 

It is difficult to establish from this what date it was actually struck out

 

8th August? (unless order was made)

14th Sept? (date for serving)

1st October? (date for any further applications)

 

Thanks for help thus far

 

confusedphaitun.com