Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[reallymadwoman]

The criteria for that part of ESA is mobilising and that criteria for higher mobility is walking.

 

I do realise the criteria are quite different and the report for ESA probably won't be taken into account for DLA but since I don't and can't use a wheelchair, for me mobilising is walking and I can't do much of that. I probably should just ask for a review of my DLA but I'm too scared of losing what I've already got.

[**Margaret**]

'Are there any rules ......' :

 

Only the ones that DWATO are making up as they go along.

 

Margaret.

[worried33]

I can't quite reconcile that response with why I've been waiting for 5 months for an assessment with no end in sight.

 

postcode lottery, I expect your area has a high workload of assessments.

 

some areas have months of waiting even without a recording.

 

Also your age might be a factor, they seem to be targeting younger people on these cuts more.

[gregbythesea]

 

I'm sort of waiting for ATOS opinion on my walking ability before deciding whether to go for a change of circumstances to try to upgrade my DLA from low to high mobility. What ATOS think won't of course be the only consideration, but getting 15 points for mobility on my ESA assessment would probably tip the balance.

 

If that is the case, shouldn't the reverse apply as well?

 

I already receive HRM as well as MRC but my ESA assessment said that as I was able to walk unaided the 15 metres to the assessment room it was proclaimed that 200 metres would not be impossible.

 

I argued that this was at odds to the DLA assessment (which was backed up with evidence at the time). They refused to budge and said that in their opinion their assessment of my mobility was correct!

 

It does seem a bit strange that the DLA award was reviewed in the December, yet the ESA assessment which took plave 5 weeks later gave a completely different answer.

 

I personally wouldn't rely on one benefit helping you win a different one.

 

PS I never did get them to change their minds, I had to rely on the mental health scenario to get me into the Support Group.

[Nystagmite]

I already receive HRM as well as MRC but my ESA assessment said that as I was able to walk unaided the 15 metres to the assessment room it was proclaimed that 200 metres would not be impossible.

 

Er, what?! That's illogical. It's not as if you walked miles and then claimed "I can't walk".

[worried33]

Er, what?! That's illogical. It's not as if you walked miles and then claimed "I can't walk".

 

they allowed to make assumptions which I keep pointing out on here.

 

eg. if someone is deemed able to walk around their home the assessor is allowed to assume they can walk 200metres.

[**Margaret**]

Oh Nystagmite:

 

LIMA and logic Atos and logic

 

Is it possible to find DWATO and logic in the same sentence

 

You surely ask to much, Margaret.

Edited August 24, 2012 by **Margaret**

[worried33]

Margaret I do agree they make it up as they go along, it seems they will change what rules they have to to ensure they meet their targets.

[Dilizjo]

 

"Atos and we have agreed that due to the volume of examinations to be undertaken, we cannot delay examination appointments until recording equipment is available. Evidence from a pilot conducted on the recording of examinations showed that there was no difference in quality between recoreded exainations and those not recorded"..

 

Here is the letter I received from Brian Perry the National Customer Relations Manager for ATOS:

 

Dear Mr XXXXXXXXXXXX,

 

(my name and address)

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 29 June 2012, which concerns the arrangements for a Work Capability Assessment for Mrs XXXXX, which is in connection with her Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). I have noted Mrs XXXXX questions in her email to you about her WCA and the provision to audio record the WCA.

 

 

Firstly, I can confirm that we will make arrangements for her WCA to be recorded, and will notify Mrs XXXXX of an appointment date as soon as possible. I apologise to Mrs XXXXX that she has not been fully updated about the appointments and I have brought this matter to the attention of our Operational Manager in the North West. I can assure Mrs XXXXX that this will not impact on her current benefit entitlement.

 

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has recently asked ATOS Healthcare to accommodate requests for audio recordings where this is made in advance of the assessment. A limited facility to audio record was introduced by the Department of Work and Pensions at a time when only small numbers of requests were anticipated and since that time the number of requests has increased significantly. This has put pressure on our ability to provide sufficient capacity to meet all requests, and with the DWP we are currently looking at ways to improve the availability of audio recording in the short term.

 

The DWP have not requested any change to appointment information at this stage although we will be assisting the DWP in the evaluation of the audio recording of WCA's later in the year.

 

If I can help further please let me know.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Brian Pepper

National Customer Relations Manager.

 

 

So someone is making up the rules as they go on ....... I will hold out till my assessment is recorded as promised in this letter. I am still waiting for my reply from DWP.

[gregbythesea]

Am I right in thinking that if an ESA award comes to an end (by virtue of a date given when the award was made) and that a face to face assessment has not been carried out due to my insistance that it be recorded, the old ESA award (Support Group) would continue in payment until the the decision is made after the face to face assessment has been carried out.

 

If so, is this not a way of prolonging the award period and putting off the evil day of losing ESA altogether with the 0 points result?

[reallymadwoman]

It has been noticed previously that asking for a recorded assessment may delay the almost inevitable appeal.

[gregbythesea]

Excellent!

 

That should then take me to my 65th birthday when ESA will stop anyhow and the state pension will start.

[keefyboy]

They might send you to ATOS for a medical to see if you are 65......... the way they are carrying on.....lol

[sillygirl1]

You'd love this story, an elderly friend had an ATOS assessment as they now have bad arthritis, so the ATOS bloke, who apparently kept muttering in German throughout the interview, to which my friend replied in German - so they continued in that language (friend spent 35 years in the Navy and speaks about 12 languages fluently. Friend has obvious visible signs of arthritis and assessor asked them to tie a knot in two pieces of string - friend did a fancy knot, assessor's jaw dropped! Friend got 0 points due to the fact that he could 'tie a complicated knot and clearly communicate in another language'. Naval support got him a re-assessment and he got awarded the right no of points for his condition.

 

Seems to be that there is a 'defined agenda' to make people fail these assessments.

 

Friend will be 65 in March next year so will now be getting a Naval pension a year early with no loss of priviledges.

[osdset]

You'd love this story, an elderly friend had an ATOS assessment as they now have bad arthritis, so the ATOS bloke, who apparently kept muttering in German throughout the interview, to which my friend replied in German - so they continued in that language (friend spent 35 years in the Navy and speaks about 12 languages fluently. Friend has obvious visible signs of arthritis and assessor asked them to tie a knot in two pieces of string - friend did a fancy knot, assessor's jaw dropped! Friend got 0 points due to the fact that he could 'tie a complicated knot and clearly communicate in another language'. Naval support got him a re-assessment and he got awarded the right no of points for his condition.

 

Seems to be that there is a 'defined agenda' to make people fail these assessments.

 

Friend will be 65 in March next year so will now be getting a Naval pension a year early with no loss of priviledges.

 

Beyond all shadow of a doubt, the first thing the HCP said to me at my WCA was 'you must realise that this assessment is intended to find you fit for work' his exact words, which rendered the rest of the assessment meaningless in terms of fairness he might just as well of said 'go home now Mr H as you are getting 0 points, it's a done deal I'm afraid'.

[gregbythesea]

They might send you to ATOS for a medical to see if you are 65......... the way they are carrying on.....lol

 

They can with my blessing. They will probably come up with the idea that I am too fit to retire!!!

[gregbythesea]

Beyond all shadow of a doubt, the first thing the HCP said to me at my WCA was 'you must realise that this assessment is intended to find you fit for work' his exact words, which rendered the rest of the assessment meaningless in terms of fairness he might just as well of said 'go home now Mr H as you are getting 0 points, it's a done deal I'm afraid'.

 

There is truth in that statement! When I had my last ESA assessment the assessor knew sweet ** about me as he did not have the ESA50. So not to worry he said, it won't make any difference to the assessment.

[keefyboy]

surely that is not correct, there is probably two ways to look at it, 1/ they don't see what you have written on the form and are working blind and 2/ a good reason to ask for another date, when they have the correct paperwork with them.......

[gregbythesea]

surely that is not correct, there is probably two ways to look at it, 1/ they don't see what you have written on the form and are working blind and 2/ a good reason to ask for another date, when they have the correct paperwork with them.......

 

He didn't have the ESA50 because I hadn't posted it back! It wasn't due to be returned until after the date of the assessment. That was down to the DWP for not arranging to send it to me before ATOS had telephoned me to make the appointment.

 

If I had have refused the assessment on that basis, they would have stopped my claim!

[keefyboy]

I apologise, I was unaware that you had not sent it back,

[count orlok]

they allowed to make assumptions which I keep pointing out on here.

 

eg. if someone is deemed able to walk around their home the assessor is allowed to assume they can walk 200metres.

 

I think that is a ridiculous assumption to make (unless that person lived in some massive mansion the size of Buck' Palace). One would be hard pressed to walk 50m in even a 3 bed house without visiting many parts more than once; something that just wouldn't be done. Normally a person only walks from one room to the next, a distance of seldom more than 3 or 4 metres. The only assumption one could make from someone saying they can walk around their home is that they can.

 

This only goes to demonstrate the need for recording.

[dpick]

I think that is a ridiculous assumption to make (unless that person lived in some massive mansion the size of Buck' Palace). One would be hard pressed to walk 50m in even a 3 bed house without visiting many parts more than once; something that just wouldn't be done. Normally a person only walks from one room to the next, a distance of seldom more than 3 or 4 metres. The only assumption one could make from someone saying they can walk around their home is that they can.

 

This only goes to demonstrate the need for recording.

 

Totally agree luckley I am now just 3 month short of 65 and I can just manage to walk round my home by using furnitute banister rails fitted to the passage walls extra rails in bathroom to hold on to but I bet I would get nil points from ATOSSers.

 

dpick

[Nystagmite]

ESA is about mobilising and not walking.

[count orlok]

ESA is about mobilising and not walking.

 

I stand corrected, but that said it would prove even harder to mobilise more than 50m. My house is a new built and has extra wide doors, etc. for a wheelchair user, doors in older houses are not usually wide enough for wheelchairs. Even then, to "mobilise" 200m one would have to visit all rooms on one floor about 10 times, not something that one ever does in a normal day (or pick any time period).

[worried33]

ESA is about mobilising and not walking.

 

yes to a degree, however there is situations where some aids have to be disregarded, in this case it can be about walking. eg. if a specialist has deemed a wheelchair as unsuitable for use, the ATOS assessor is supposed to not assess based on ability to mobilise in a wheelchair. Of course the ATOS assessor can choose to disagree with a specialist and then still assess based on mobilising in a wheelchair.

 

Also the bit I posted about walking was from the DLA handbook.