Job Centre telling me to throw money away

[sillygirl1]

A holiday of 14 days is allowed... I know somebody who did this recently. A two day holiday should not make any difference, if they do try to arrange a meeting on that day tell them it is not a suitable date and time.

 

The football season ticket is not a good reason for not wanting to work on a Saturday... I don't normally work on a Saturday but I did get two hours work on a Saturday in a different field which I accepted, which is going to lead to more work in a field I love.

 

The more difficult you make it for THEM the more they will pick on you.

 

I can only assume you are fairly young - ie under 30 which is why they are forcing you to do 'work related activity' as proof you are looking for work, this is 'mandatory' for that age group.

[Sura]

To be fair, if I'd spent a lot of money or knew someone spent a lot of money trying to get me a season ticket I wouldn't want to waste it, and I don't even like football, but you get the idea.

 

But yes - essentially there are ways around it without making it obvious and without making it difficult for them. Not that I would usually advocate this, but when the system treads on you you avoid it.

[Nystagmite]

Sillygirl - the rules are different if you go abroad. Hence flumps saying to sign off.

[sillygirl1]

Surely going abroad for two days doesn't make any difference if you are on JSA... you could be going to seek work and expand your opportunities.

 

The more these rulebashers come on here and state the rules the madder the system is.

 

I have the opportunity to go to France next weekend for the weekend (dad has a house there and transport is provided anyway) so if I declare I am going I would need to sign off for Saturday and Sunday as I would not be available for work.... the 12th Feb is a Sunday anyway... the rules are made to confuse rather than to clarify what action should be taken.

 

Reminds me of the time my sister had a Czech nanny, who was brilliant, her visa was running out and apparently if she left the country for a week she could restart her visa, if not she had to go back and wait three months, they took her to France and when she returned she came through the immigration channel... this was before the EU rules changed everything, about 18 odd years ago now.

[sillygirl1]

All this does make you realise why people DONT declare EVERYTHING as they are all lumped in with the rest of the people who bend the system at every opportunity.

[osdset]

As stated you are allowed 14 days holiday in the UK, two days abroad would mean a re-claim (if you told them) You are of course obliged to divulge this information and they would obviously notice if either the 13th or 14th were signing days, and you didn't turn up, or if you were booked for something else and did not turn up, the only possible excuse for not turning up would be if you were sick, in which case you would also divulge this information ;o]

[flumps1976]

If you don't declare it but it comes to light fuirther in the claim them it will be a referral to fraud as you will sign coupon ES24JP to legally declare that you have not had any changes in your circumstances, you have been available and actively seeking employment as oer your JSAg, if you are abroad then you are not allowed to claim JSA for a period of holiday BUT if you have a job interview in Europe and you will be required to attend for more than 3 days but less than 5 days you can be treated as abailable and actively seeking by a decision maker.

 

Also the period of holiday in the UK is 2 benefit weeks not calender weeks!

[osdset]

If you don't declare it but it comes to light fuirther in the claim them it will be a referral to fraud as you will sign coupon ES24JP to legally declare that you have not had any changes in your circumstances, you have been available and actively seeking employment as oer your JSAg, if you are abroad then you are not allowed to claim JSA for a period of holiday BUT if you have a job interview in Europe and you will be required to attend for more than 3 days but less than 5 days you can be treated as abailable and actively seeking by a decision maker.

 

Also the period of holiday in the UK is 2 benefit weeks not calender weeks!

 

I meant 14 days inclusive of weekends, the last time I looked the UK was part of the EU and as such we have the right to live and seek work anywhere within the community, it should not be therefore regarded as a break in claim to visit said community for the purpose of seeking gainful employment, having said that we are dealing with HM Government of the United Kingdom therefore common sense rules need not apply.

[flumps1976]

As a "rulebasher" I will now leave this thread.

Edited February 4, 2012 by flumps1976

[antone]

Surely going abroad for two days doesn't make any difference if you are on JSA... you could be going to seek work and expand your opportunities.

 

The more these rulebashers come on here and state the rules the madder the system is.

 

I have the opportunity to go to France next weekend for the weekend (dad has a house there and transport is provided anyway) so if I declare I am going I would need to sign off for Saturday and Sunday as I would not be available for work.... the 12th Feb is a Sunday anyway... the rules are made to confuse rather than to clarify what action should be taken.

 

In the CAG Benefits forum we don't insult other members. Also, we don't advise people to break the law.

[insyder]

if I declare I am going I would need to sign off for Saturday and Sunday as I would not be available for work.... the 12th Feb is a Sunday anyway... the rules are made to confuse rather than to clarify what action should be taken.

 

You sign off from Friday and make a rapid reclaim on your return, Monday. What confusion is there?

[sadone]

I'm with those who despise how this Alice in Wonderland system works. I mean can you imagine MP's being treated like this because our taxes pay for them?

 

But just a heads up as I read somewhere that the DWP now do data sweeps every few years to check who's leaving the county via passport checks and see If anyone who's listed is claiming benefits. So It's worth baring that in mind before undertaking anything that might come back to bite you in the arse further down the line sadly.

[antone]

I'd just like to draw attention to this sticky thread, which highlights pertinent rules regarding the way staff and claimants alike are to be treated in the forum.

[jadeybags]

I think JCP's own job search system is ok for those who are unable or unwilling to look for work themselves, obviously the vast majority of people are able to use other better methods of finding work outside of that. Obviously no one wants to just live on JSA and do actually want to work. No one I know anyway!

 

Don't bet on it! Quite a few of us know a few of them to be honest. But they don't mind being sanctioned, they get by during that time with their cash in hand job.

Loads of jobs at Sainsburys at the mo by the way folks. And they quite often keep on the temps too..

 

http://sainsburys.jobs/vacancy/search

Edited February 5, 2012 by jadeybags

[keldas]

A few interesting links covering your position with regard to information you have to give job centres and their obligations -

 

http://www.consent.me.uk/

 

http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

 

http://www.refusewp.com/

 

If you want to fight the cuts ask the Government to pause and revisit them -

 

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/20968

[RealName]

OK, so this happened today. I have a couple of jobs coming up soon where I'm being paid expenses. Despite not profiting from them at least I'm gaining more experience in my chosen career path, I'm making contacts within the industry and I'm also gaining material to use in my show reel. Three positive aspects from the "work experience" I've managed to get myself. The job centre are aware of this work experience, but instead of allowing me to do it they're telling me to cancel it so that I can instead take a job in another field in some work experience scheme their forcing me on to. I'm unaware what the job will be yet, but it's either going to be care, retail or warehouse work.

 

This strikes me as being completely illogical as the work experience they're offering only gives me the chance to add something else to my C.V., something which I could do anyway if I stuck with the film-related work experience. However, of course if I don't go along with their demands my money will be stopped.

 

I've been provided with very little information about this work experience. All I know is that it will last four weeks and I'll be receiving a call some time in the next five days. Does anyone know what this might be and can they provide me some information on it? I did ask my advisor, but she refused to tell me more than this. Does anyone know how you go about changing advisors by the way?

 

I'm currently unsure what to do about this situation. If I cancel my claim for JSA, I stand a much greater chance of getting a job in the field I want to work in sooner. However, continuing to claim it will knock me back a month and I'll have to hope that opportunities as good as the ones I'll be cancelling will surface again some time soon, but at least I'll have some money coming in in the mean time.

[sillygirl1]

You can still claim council tax benefit and housing benefit without being on JSA - the three do NOT tie in with eachother contrary to popular (and DWP JC staffs ) belief.

 

It may well be that you can claim additional benefits by signing off - and in the process knocking the Jobcentre stats.

 

I haven't been picked on yet for work experience, I have 40 years experience anyway. They seem to be targetting the under 35s to ensure they have a 'strong work ethic' and do not expect 'something for nothing' when you are on benefits.

 

I am in the same boat, I have some weekend work coming up in the future in a field I am well known in and would the JC allow me travelling expenses - NOPE, they did not find the opportunities for me, I found them myself.

 

This whole system of A4e needs a major rethink.

[Worried_Gal]

Oh god I read all this and can't agree more! I have been signing on for a year, and I've just had an endless nightmare of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

 

I was told I couldn't go away abroad for a holiday. I was a professor at a university in France and I was invited to the graduation ceremony to sit on stage as I had been the prof of all the graduating students...I was told by the JC I was not allowed to go even though it didn't clash with a signing on day. I had to be in the UK just in case someone rang up with an urgent job interview.

 

Also when you sign on you have to say three areas you can work in, and when you sign on every two weeks they want proof that you have applied for jobs in those areas (I say proof, I mean just write down a company and a job you've applied for). So as long as what you say you've applied for matches what they have on their screen, they are happy.

 

They are not there to get you a job, they are there to get you of benefits, and they don't give a rat's bottom whether you get a job in your chosen field or not. Some people who work there are better than others, and it's all dependent on who you get. So the way to 'work the system' is to write down you've applied for jobs that match your job seeker's agreement, then in your own time go for jobs in the film industry.

 

If they give you jobs to apply for that are unreasonable, then send them a very basic application, and you will not get an interview. I've had to do this, I was given jobs to apply for on an industrial estate, only accessible by car (I don't drive) and I was told to 'buy a bicycle'. So either do a basic application so you have actually applied, or else when they go through it on their screen to check you've applied give a strong reason as to why not - travel is too expensive etc.

 

Personally I would like to sign off and live off my savings, but I am currently having battle because I have been overpaid, which occurred because I took the advice of one of the advisors. I have just rung the CAB who said I was mis-advised, but since I didn't get it written down there's nothing I can do. I feel I am wasting my life, hours in my day and general head space trying to constantly appease them.

 

I feel for you, and if you work hard enough you will get a job in the film industry (I worked for 12 years in TV) but don't expect the JC to understand! They only seem to want warehouse workers and forklift truck drivers.

[osdset]

There are currently some great opportunities at Directgov jobs, look at this corkerhttp://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/detailjob.aspx?sessionid=3b8caf07-fabe-4b8f-aad1-42db42263fec&pid=4&j=pch/45796 and there are plenty more on their site, so they are actually advertising workfare placements as actual jobs!

[sillygirl1]

I have been looking at the direct.gov website on the jobs, they are NOT great opportunities as many of the jobs are re-advertised every trhee months, even my adviser admits that.

 

The JC are wrong about not going out of the country on signing days, you are allowed to go to the EU if it is job relates as your case would appear to have been, and I have yet to have a company ring up and offer me an interview on the same day, usually they want it for a couple of days ahead.

 

The whole system is fraught with idiotic decisions and seems to help generate a climate of 'I am not telling you anything unless it is on this form' culture... it is not their business if somebody wants to take you away for a couple of days, with technology you can still be contacted and if necessary even have a 'techno-interview' which would also show off your skills in the IT area.... plenty of alternative ways of dealing with a 'sudden unexpected interview'.

 

I've now done 9 webinars which are very simple to set up, and three of them were multinational, another one coming up on Sunday afternoon, 3pm USA time 8pm UK time.

[RealName]

You can still claim council tax benefit and housing benefit without being on JSA - the three do NOT tie in with eachother contrary to popular (and DWP JC staffs ) belief.

 

Do you have any links with information on this? I'd like to see if it's financially viable for me to so. The JSA isn't a whole lot more than my monthly rent, so if I'd be losing a fair amount it might not be a be a viable option. The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards cancelling my claim though.

 

Does anyone know if I'll even be paid expenses for taking this free labour on their work placement scheme? Based on the travel distance I was forced to accept travel could cost me as much as £40 a day. If expenses aren't going to be covered and the travel costs are high the work placement will be impossible for me to accept and I'll be booted off of JSA anyway.

 

Edit:

 

Interesting. I just came across this.

 

"Jobcentre Plus cannot lawfully impose benefit sanctions on participants refusing to work for their benefits as long as they attend without prior refusal whilst just withholding their labour due to a lack of lawful authority."

 

I'm a little confused by that. I'm required to attend the work placement, but I can refuse to do anything once I'm there? Or does the attending refer to the job centre rather than the work placement?

 

And taken from the act itself:

 

"In subsection (2) “work-related activity”, in relation to any person, means activity which makes it more likely that the person will obtain or remain in work or be able to do so."

 

As I've found other work-related activities which give me a far greater chance of getting a job, which I'm being made to cancel for a work placement that's just recycling free labour, would I be able to continue to claim my benefits under this section of the act? Cancelling opportunities and taking their work placement instead is certainly going to make it less likely for me to obtain a job, so it seems that way to me.

Edited February 10, 2012 by RealName

[antone]

The JC are wrong about not going out of the country on signing days, you are allowed to go to the EU if it is job relates as your case would appear to have been, and I have yet to have a company ring up and offer me an interview on the same day, usually they want it for a couple of days ahead.

 

To whom are you directing this advice? It isn't entirely clear.

[RealName]

I've just found this as well. And it raises a few questions.

 

After being placed on the work placement scheme I wasn't made to sign anything, so I have yet to sign a modified job seeker's agreement. Correct? As I haven't signed anything to agree to this I can refuse to take it and say that I'm "happy with the existing Jobseekers Agreement and feel it is adequate" as that site suggests, yes? If so when would I have to do this? I'm not required to be at the job centre again until Thursday and the phone call providing me with details about the work placement is likely to be before then.

 

What is the data protection waiver? Is this something I'd have signed when initially signing up for JSA? If not then I haven't signed it. If it is something that would have been there when I initially signed up it seems likely that I'd have refused to agree to such a thing. Is there a way for me to check whether I did or not? If there is a way for me to check and I didn't agree to it then my advisor is going to be in trouble given her actions, which I will state in the following paragraph.

 

I didn't pass my details on to the person who my advisor rang to place me on the work placement scheme, my advisor gave them to them herself. I wasn't even told who was on the other end of the phone. I was eventually passed the phone to speak to them but all they asked for was the name and contact number of my next of kin (which I gave), what kind of work I wanted (I asked what there was and when they listed them I said that I didn't care) and how far I'd be prepared to travel (I said I didn't know, refused an hour and a half, then agreed to an hour). As my advisor gave the information over, providing that I didn't agree to have my information passed over, she has broken the Data Protection Act. Correct? Also would the little information I did give myself count as providing information to the provider? It seems to me that only the name and contact number of my next of kin is personal information. I certainly didn't give them anything big like my own name or my NI number. I also didn't confirm any of the details my advisor provided them with and I wasn't asked to.

[osdset]

RealName,

 

Look on this site http://www.consent.me.uk/ it has information about the job-seekers agreement, and the data waiver.

 

At the end of the day the only people who can give you concrete advice about this are those who have actually taken these steps and found out what the consequences were, I have probably looked every 'anti workfare' site out there, and TBH there is very little in the way of positive feedback from claimants who have had much success using these methods. I'm not saying the methods don't work, but it's a very much a 'take your chances' scenario.

 

IMHO the only way around workfare is to avoid being put on it in the first place.

[RealName]

Thanks. I don't recall signing such a waiver, but it can't hurt to send the letter to withdraw consent.

 

After some more digging it seems my only choice is to take part in the work experience, or cancel my claim for JSA as I've been forced on to the mandatory one. I'll probably choose the latter. According to that site she was also allowed to pass my information on to those people without my permission.

 

In fact as I'm going away for a few days to France I was told that I have to stop my claim anyway, then reclaim it upon my return. I'm assuming if I did so I wouldn't get to start afresh and they'd throw the mandatory work placement at me immediately?