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  1. Last thing I'm going to say on this matter as using this website about rail problems is completely pointless when too many people here work for the company and seem to have a protect their own mentality. The way you get spoken to around here just for wanting justice against members of National Rail staff, who aren't above the law, is disgusting. I spoke to the station manager, and as all the rail employees that posted in this thread full well know, the RPO was completely in the wrong and I did nothing wrong. Snatching the ticket was perhaps the wrong thing to do, but apparently reasonable given the circumstances. You guys aren't as powerful as you like to think. This isn't the first time the RPO has behaved out of line, so my complaint will be taken seriously. My photocard and tickets have been returned to me. The RPO has even decided to burn some of the tickets that were within my wallet. There was no need for him to have done this at all. As the CCTV footage proves my story, you can either choose to believe that this incident took place as described, or continue to disbelieve me. If you want to believe that I set up a studio replicating the station's ticket office, hired actors resembling the staff, staged the entire incident and then hacked their system to replace the original CCTV footage with this, then that's your decision.
  2. They are heavily biased. The fact that they stated that it is perfectly acceptable for a member of National Rail staff to set fire to an object, but if anyone else does so they will be arrested is proof of this. They will be dealt with appropriately Anyone with even an ounce of common sense knows that the RPO is the one in the wrong. I agree. My mistake was attempting to purchase a ticket from SWT. I will only use FGW from now on. Damn customers trying to purchase train tickets! What are the crazy fools thinking getting in the way?
  3. ---Quote (Originally by Old-CodJA)--- If you have clear _evidence_ to support an allegation,then take it up with the TOC, however it seems that you have already been tothe Police and they do not accept that you have evidence to support anyallegation of an offence. ---End Quote--- I've been to BTP. Not the police. A brief chat with thepolice saw them see this as a crime, but they told me I would have to take itup with BTP. BTP claim that it's acceptable for a member of staff to set fireto an object, but a crime for a customer to do so. This isn't the first timeBTP have had one rule for them and another for everyone else, so I will betaking this further this time. ---Quote--- Rail staff have the authority to collect / retain allexpired rail tickets. In fact, if takento the extreme, the National Rail Conditions of Carriage always said that theyshould be 'given up on expiry', however I think we all understand that isn'talways practical. The fact remainsthough that if a traveller needs to claim expenses all they have to do is askfor a receipt when they buy their ticket. ---End Quote--- Are you able to get receipts from the machines theconductor's have on board the trains or is this limited to the station officeand self-service machines? ---Quote--- We do not know where you were travelling from and tobecause you haven't told us, but if you tell us which station you started yourjourney at we can give you a definitive answer. If there was a booking office or self-service machine atthe station where you started your journey, you have a strict liabilityresponsibility to use it. ---End Quote--- My station is a penalty fare station, however the ticketoffice was closed and the machines only accept cards. The first point at whichI could have bought a ticket was on board the train. I always ask forpermission to board the train before boarding and ask if I can buy a ticketfrom them. Today I was told I could board the train but would have to buy theticket from the next stop, which I attempted to do. Once before I had twotrains cancelled and my next one was late, so I asked the guard on board thenext train if I could get on and buy a ticket from her instead of at the station.I only wish I had asked today as the answer would probably have been 'yes'. Ishould point out at this point, as others are bound to jump to the incorrectconclusion, that nobody involved with the incident today, other than myself,were aware that I had travelled on a train without a ticket, so this has nobearing on what took place. ---Quote--- No-one has said that anyone snatched anything ffrom you---End Quote--- Not today, but the same RPO snatched something off of me in thepast. When I snatched it back he cried assault. It should work both ways. ---Quote--- It seems to me that age has nothing to do with this, ifthe RPI / RPO could not clearly make out the date, it his responsibility tocheck it ---End Quote--- I can certainly understand how what I said could bemisconstrued. Of course I'm not saying that old people are practically blind.It's just that our eyesight tends to get weaker as we get older. Mine certainlyisn't as good as it was five years ago and I'm only in my 20s. There should besome logic applied to the reading of the tickets. I was able to read the dateclearly from a metre away through the plastic window. So the date obviouslywasn't that unreadable. If a member of staff can confirm the date on theticket, it should be fine. I feel at this point they should have either allowedme to purchase a ticket with my railcard, offered me a replacement or told me Icould no longer use the railcard. I should not have been accused of using aninvalid railcard to purchase a ticket. ---Quote--- My gut feeling, based on a working lifetinme in thisfield, is that unless there something missing in the process, if your name andaddress were taken, your photocard was retained and you snatched the ticket /railcard back and ran off to catch a train, a report will be submitted anjd youwill get a letter from the TOC in due course. That could take up to six weekso0r so to arrive. ---End Quote--- I didn't give my name or address when they asked. I askedthem what they needed them for and the question was never answered. I spoke toBTP about this and they confirmed that as SWT did not tell me why they weretaking them I was under no obligation to provide that information. I alsodidn't catch a train. At least not from that station. I went to the next stopmy train would have stopped at and continued my journey from there, buying aticket from the station I initially travelled from. I don't know if they're able to find out my name andaddress from my photocard, but if they are I don't see what I could be finedfor. ---Quote (Originally by RPI)--- yes, holding a lighter under a faded railcard is a commonmethod of showing up the date and it seems universal amongst TOC's. ---End Quote--- I understand that now, but I'm sure you'll agree that theRPO should have explained this instead of ripping up the railcard when I askedhim why he was doing it. In fact, I wondered if this could have been the reasonwhen I saw the transformation take place. It was when he took the lighter to itagain, after the date was already clear, for a longer period of time that Iassumed this was no longer the case. I don't know how flammable railcards arebut had I not stopped him I feel it may have set alight. To be honest he shouldprobably have picked a more suitable place to do it in rather than the busystation foyer as well.
  4. Thanks Old-CodJA. Nice to see we're back to some common sense and helpfulness around here. If this was the RPO's intent then he certainly didn't make it clear. He could have clarified what he was doing but instead he chose to ignore my request for him to not burn my ticket and in fact denied that he was even doing it. I think we'll both agree that he should have explained this to me rather than deciding to rip my railcard up. I have spoken to some of the people in queue who witnessed the incident and it came across to them that he was attempting to set fire to my ticket as well. So while it may be a misunderstanding, it appears to be a wide-spread one. I can see the logic behind that, but I'm sure you can see things from my perspective as well. The ROP was out of line and should not have ripped up my railcard or taken my photocard from me.
  5. ---Quote (Originally by 45002)--- Football is more important to you then ! ---End Quote--- Because if you hadsomewhere you had to get to you would immediately drop it to report someone tothe police, even though you could do it later in the day. I'm not buying thatfor a second. ---Quote (Originally by 45002)--- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?285498-%A3600-Fine-Threat Or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?254251-Train-Fine ---End Quote--- Neither of those.It was something technical like having to renew my railcard at the same stationas I did before due to the photocard being purchased there. I don't reallyremember the details too well. It was a long time ago. You're obviously not worth replying to, sothis will be the last time I bother. ---Quote (Originally by sailor sam)--- Hmm. OP dosn't have much look with TOC staff it seems? ---End Quote--- One incident wasprobably a case of mistaken identity with a guard trying it on. The other SWTdidn't even bother pursuing as I clearly wasn't trying to evade the fare. Afterall, why would someone trying to fare dodge pay more money than they would havedone had they purchased the correct ticket? The only relevance those two incidents have is that one involves thesame RPO. Someone posted, I believe on here, a few years back that he issuedthem with a prosecution for ASKING if she could use her husband's train pass.She didn't actually use it. I believe this says more about the RPO than it doesmyself. If it's perfectly acceptable for him to try to set fire to my railcardjust because he tried to fine me before then the world's gone mad. Anyway, I just rang BTP. They claim that theRPO hasn't committed a crime, so they doubt they'll be able to do anything andI'll have to settle for making a complaint to SWT. I made a point out of thefact that he tried setting fire to an object in apublic space and that somebody could have been injured if I hadn't stopped him.Apparently this isn't a criminal offence. I asked what would happen if I walkedin to a train station and set fire to my ticket. Apparently I would bearrested. I said that they should deal with the incident in the same waywhether a member of public or a member of staff tries setting fire to anobject. Again, they said I will have to settle for a complaint with SWT. Doesn'tseem fair to me.
  6. ---Quote (Originally by sailor sam)--- Definitely. And if it had happened to me as exactly theOP describes, it would of been me calling for the police. ---End Quote--- I would have done. But I haven't missed a home game inthe league since 1999. There was no way I was ending that run because of theRPO. I've just checked my YPC and that was purchased from aFGW station and not a SWT station. Does this mean SWT have no rights to havestolen my photocard? I think this might come under a different rule thantickets as I recall having some sort of problem with the card in the pastbetween the two companies.
  7. I'm on my way home now, so I'll make the report when Iget back to the station where theincident happened (I wonder if I'm supposed to still be banned from there). Just a thought. I purchased all of the tickets which Ineed to claim expenses back from FGW. DoSWT have the rights to take them even though they were purchased from another company? I'm probably correct in thinking that this isn't the case as ticketsare property of National Rail andtherefore all the different rail companies under them. As intimidatory behaviour was mentioned I wonder if itwould also be worth raising the factthat after he threatened to call the police he told me that he'd report me for assault. When I asked him who I was supposed to have assaulted he claimed I'd assaultedhim. At this point a number of people inthe queue shook their heads in disbelief.
  8. As The Urbanite stated, I was questioning the principle, so the route I took on this particular day is irrelevant. I can confirm that both routes are valid as both National Rail and the guard on board the train that day verified this. I regularly travel different ways there and back when I'm travelling to and from multiple different locations. After hearing this from this particular guard I was worried that one day I might have a run in with a jobsworth RPO who would be able to justify issuing me with a penalty fare. Old-CodJA has confirmed my suspicions that this particular guard was wrong and that you are allowed to travel back via a different route providing both routes are permitted. So thank you.
  9. The incident should be on CCTV. There were also a fewwitnesses who I personally know at theback of the queue who saw the whole incident. Good to know that him attempting to burn something couldget him sacked. I don't know his namebut I could easily identify him. I had a run in with him a few years back. He reported me but SWT didn't evenbother contacting me about the incidentas I clearly wasn't attempting to dodge a fare. How would I go about reporting this? Would I go to thepolice or would I have to settle for a complaint via SWT's complaintsprocedure? I'm assuming I won't be able to get my tickets orphotocard back and am unable to report this as theft due to SWT owning them?
  10. A crazy day at the train station today. I went to buy a ticket. They could see I was in a rush as I was constantly looking back at the boards as my train was about to leave the station. One of the ticket sellers asked to see my Young Person's Card. He made me pass it underneath the barrier so he could have a closer look at it. He claimed he was unable to read it clearly. However, when he asked a younger colleague, with better eyesight, the younger colleague confirmed that the card expired in September 2013. An elderly RPO then came along, took the ticket, came out of the office and took me to one side. He tried to accuse me of trying to purchase a ticket with an invalid rail card. I said that I hadn't as I still had four months left on my card, which he was holding in his hand. To my surprise he then decided to burn my ticket. I asked him why he was burning it and he claimed that he wasn't. I told him that I was watching him do it right in front of my eyes. He then said 'Well, if you're going to be like that' and attempted to rip the ticket up. I managed to grab it off of him before he was able to do so. However, my rail wallet was still on the other side of the barrier in their possession. They have stolen my photocard and around a year's worth of rail tickets, a number of which I was owed expenses for (over £200 in total). My understanding is that they're allowed to take tickets from us just because they feel like it as even though we've paid for them, they still own them. Am I able to report them for theft or anything at all? The RPO was way out of line here. I assume I was victimised due to being in a rush and thus more likely to kick up a fuss when they tried it on, purely so that the RPO could claim a bonus for a completely unjustified penalty fare. I was banned from the train station for the day and now I have had to get a lift to another train station just so I can reach my destination, where I will now have to run to get to the football match before kick off.
  11. Both routes are permitted routes. The National Rail website lists both routes and the ticket costs the same price. The question is: If a journey has more than one permitted route can you travel via one of the permitted routes on the way there and via a different one of the permitted routes on the way back, providing you have an 'any permitted route' ticket?
  12. Not really. That was two years ago. I don't know if the rules have changed since. Unless you're confirming that the guard on board the train was wrong when he told me I'd have to travel back the same way?
  13. The other day when I bought a ticket, the conductor on board the train told me I was travelling in the wrong direction. I told him that I wasn't as I'd looked online and it suggested this route as it was the quickest on the way there. When he input the data on the machine he confirmed that I was correct. I asked if the ticket could be an any permitted route ticket as I would be travelling back the other way. He told me that while 'any permitted' meant I could travel in either direction, once I had started travelling I would be restricted to that route, meaning I would have to come back in the same direction. Is this correct? I suspect he might be wrong as the National Rail site says I only have to purchase one ticket to travel up one way and back the other. I've travelled different ways there and back many times in the past and this has never been an issue before. I also bought a ticket which I thought would be incredibly complicated to purchase in the past due to the fact that I was travelling to four different stations, three of which were on separate routes, and National Rail Enquiries told me I could just buy an any route permitted ticket to one of the stations I was travelling to and it would be fine.
  14. I contacted the employer again today and explained that it would cost me £50 to travel to the interview and I asked if they would be able to help cover my expenses. They told me not to bother coming and that they would reject my application since it was unreasonable for me to pay to work. I wasn't stupid enough to sign that, which is why I have to pay for all travel costs myself. I can see the logic behind that. antone explained the reason well. There's also the fact that this isn't the type of work I am qualified for and if I was to take this job I would be moving in the opposite direction of where most of the work is. If it wasn't for JCP telling me to apply for the job I wouldn't have bothered. I am constantly pointing out to them that it's unreasonable asking me to apply for jobs with high travel costs, but they don't care. I've pointed out that making me apply for the job is only wasting the employer's time as I live too far away to even be considered. They still don't care. Given the number of jobs I apply for each week DWP are going to have a hard time claiming that I applied for a particular job just to make up the numbers. However, I will admit that in the past I have applied for jobs I knew I wouldn't be considered for just to reach my quota. If there aren't enough jobs in a particular week and I am required to apply for a certain number each week, then what am I supposed to do? I recall the Christmas period being particularly bad. I ended up having to apply for jobs from weeks ago that I'd already rejected since the company was looking for someone with experience in that field. If it's a sanctionable offence to apply for jobs just to meet a certain number, then JCP shouldn't be setting numbers in the first place as you can then be sanctioned no matter what you do. If JCP have asked you to apply for a job and you don't apply for it you risk being sanctioned for 13 weeks. Even if you have sufficient proof that it was unreasonable they will still reject both your reconsideration and the appeal in the hope that you give up before it goes to court. So we're talking about no money for 13 weeks, with you having to wait around a year to get the money back that shouldn't have been taken from you in the first place. It's better to just go along with the lunacy and apply for the job.
  15. I'm on the work programme, so this isn't an option.
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