Job Centre telling me to throw money away

[RealName]

I've been unemployed for a while now and the job centre are really upping the pressure on the jobs I apply for. While I'm OK with applying for jobs outside of the area I have a degree in, some of the things I've been told are mandatory for me to do are only going to cause me to lose money.

 

My degree was in film and I've been told that I have to get an agent that deals with this career path by next week or my money will be stopped. I explained that in this career path such agents have to be paid for and it's not financially viable for me to do so, but they weren't interested.

 

One of the other jobs I was also shown today would cost me £20 a day if I took it, due to the travel costs being high and it being a full-time minimum wage job with only a few working hours a day. I pointed this out but they told me that at least it gives me some experience and I should just settle for what I can get. They also told me that if I don't have something else by next week and I refuse to apply for that job (yes, I was given only a week rather than the usual two) then my money will be stopped.

 

Are they in the right to stop my money if I refuse to do both things? I can possibly work around the agency one through a contact, but a job that's going to cost me around £400 a month is obviously not worth having at all and I'd be considerably better off having no job and no benefits.

[feelingsad]

Are they in the right to stop my money if I refuse to do both things?

 

yes

[reallymadwoman]

Re the job with high travel costs - apply for it as they insist. It's not difficult to word your application in such a way that you have no chance of getting the job.

 

Before anyone complains, I wouldn't normally advocate this but if JCP are going to be unreasonable it leaves claimants with no choice.

[flumps1976]

Basically the background to this is that your Job Seekers Agreement has to have acheivable job goals so if you haven't been successful looking in your chosen field yet but there is a way to improve your prospects then you should be expected to explore the option.

With regards to the job that will cost you money to get to, apply for the vacancy (please note that the JCP may contact the company and ask if you applied and then if offered interview how did you present yourself for the interview etc especially if you appear to be reluctant to apply for the vacancy), how many hours per week is the actualy vacancu offering you?

Ask for a better off calculation if you are offered the job to show that your travel costs would reduce the actual amount of money that you would take home to a level equal of less than JSA.

[LaughingGirl]

Re the job with high travel costs - apply for it as they insist. It's not difficult to word your application in such a way that you have no chance of getting the job.

 

Before anyone complains, I wouldn't normally advocate this but if JCP are going to be unreasonable it leaves claimants with no choice.

 

For what it's worth, I agree. Of course people do anything and everything they can to get off JSA, but I can't see how forcing someone into employment they can't live on is helpful to anyone.

[sillygirl1]

I'm improving my prospects in a different field and the jobcentre are being pains in the neck, however I have plenty of documented proof I am able and 'qualified' to work in the area and that full time work is possible.

 

I am finding their 'paperwork' games quite funny, I regularly fill in a complete book of 'what you are doing to find work' every two weeks - really upset one 'caseworker' doing this -

 

Them: But you only need to apply for two jobs a week, phone two employers and have one interview

Me: In this week I phoned 9 agencies, sat one lot of tests and passed at a high rate (gave them the test results) and applied for 17 jobs...

Them: repeated above statement no 1...

Me: Can I see another adviser please

Them: Why are you applying for so many jobs

Me: Because they are there to be applied to and are within the criteria you set out

Them: repeated above statement no 1...

Me: Can I see another adviser

 

This went on for about 10 minutes until manager came over, signed off my paperwork after photocopying it and then got me another much older adviser... the first adviser was a young person who clearly didn't have excperience of much older people having been made redundant. Only seemed used to people not really bothering.

[LaughingGirl]

All of my JC advisers have been brilliant, but I think I've been lucky so far.

 

'Why have you been applying for so many jobs', indeed. Gawd help the lot of us!

[Sura]

I think there is actually grounds to argue with them. I know of people who have turned down a job before, and it is perfectly reasonable to do so if the travel costs are unreasonable. Usually, you'd have a half-decent adviser who would notice this for you and simply kick the job out of the window, as happened to me when I was on Jobseekers a few times.

 

You can ask them to do a better-off calculation to see if taking the job would benefit you still, enough to warrant getting it, and you can also ask to talk to higher managment about your actual Job seekers agreement and wether you think it is reasonable or not.

 

As long as you actively speak to them about it I'm sure something can be sorted.

[sillygirl1]

Since I spoke to the JC manager I've been dealt with quite reasonably, they know I have tons of experience but all I get is 'you don't have a degree' or 'you are now over 50 and likely not to be good on a computer'. I am very very computer literate and realy get narked by that comment, I quietly asked one JC employee 'okay, where would you like me to sit and prove to you I know about computers....' they asked how I could prove it and I said 'I can make the 'E' key of every PC in this office burp very loudly each time it is pressed, as it is the commonest letter in our language can you imagine the noise!' They declined my offer.

 

I find their paper games amusing, the tick box mentality can be used in your favour, make sure you are prepared to back your threats up and then all should go reasonably smoothly.

 

I am only on monthly assessments where I get told 'what about this job' I show them that I had applied for that job that day or the previous day and get told okay, come back in another month. Don't have to go back until March now from the end of Jan..

[caledfwlch]

Basically the background to this is that your Job Seekers Agreement has to have acheivable job goals so if you haven't been successful looking in your chosen field yet but there is a way to improve your prospects then you should be expected to explore the option.

With regards to the job that will cost you money to get to, apply for the vacancy (please note that the JCP may contact the company and ask if you applied and then if offered interview how did you present yourself for the interview etc especially if you appear to be reluctant to apply for the vacancy), how many hours per week is the actualy vacancu offering you?

Ask for a better off calculation if you are offered the job to show that your travel costs would reduce the actual amount of money that you would take home to a level equal of less than JSA.

 

So, the OP can and will be sanctioned, if he does not "find" an agent, which is likely to cost him hundreds, if not thousands of pounds, in a "sign up" fee? Exactly where is the OP supposed to find the joining fee when on £67 a week?

[sadone]

Yeah I was wondering about that. Does sound insane/borderline illegal to me.

[Nystagmite]

Them: But you only need to apply for two jobs a week, phone two employers and have one interview

 

Oh for flips sake! I always thought that what was on your agreement was the minimum you had to do. So, if you apply for several obs a week, what's the issue?

[Sura]

Wait so you have to have one interview a week?

 

What if no one calls you for one?

[LaughingGirl]

Wait so you have to have one interview a week?

 

What if no one calls you for one?

 

No idea, but that's in my job plan too. I haven't had a single interview in five months, then on Wednesday I got asked to five in one day. Nobody has ever questioned it, mentioned it, or said that it's a problem that I haven't been to any.

[flumps1976]

The point I was trying to make (obviously unsucessfully sorry) was that as he had not been successful in finding work in the chosen field then other options should be explored, if it then turns out that it is no longer a reasonable gob goal anymore due to the barriers (in this case lack of an agent which would cost the Jobseeker) then that job goal can and should be removed from the JSAg.

[RealName]

Thanks for the replies. Hopefully a friend of a friend who started an agency a few months back will agree to place me on his books without charging me for his service, although I don't expect him to actually give me any work.

 

I'll apply for that job they want me to apply for and hope that I don't get it. I'm sure I can throw something into my C.V. that looks good but would actually be completely unsuitable for the job.

 

Sorry if I was unclear, but the job in question is in another field. One which I would be terrible at in fact and if I did get I wouldn't be surprised if I was sacked after a week or two.

[insyder]

When I was claiming I found that just playing along was the way to keep them happy. I showed them I'd applied for lots of jobs

 

I'm confused. The jobcentre want you to do a minimum amount of jobsearching but you felt that you needed to "play along" to keep them happy. Were you not actually looking for work then?

 

The Jobseekers Agreement (JSAg) is not a stick to beat people with, if you want to change it then request a discussion with an advisor. As for the advisor that states they will stop your money, they can't say that they can only send up a doubt. With regards the one that says you should get an agent this is completely ridiculous. If this is not specified on the JSAg then it is a tenuous doubt at best. If anyone has anything on their JSAg which is not Specific, Measureable, Achievable, Realistic or Time-bound (this is called SMART, JSAgs have to be SMART) then it should be altered immediately.

[osdset]

One needs to consider what role JCP actually plays, as a portal to benefits as embodied by JSA it fulfills it's role well enough, as a job brokerage service it's abysmal, it relies too much on it's own intranet system as a window to employment vacancies, that coupled with the fact that a large percentage of employers that advertise via JCP are what I would regard as fairly low calibre, it's a cost effective (free) way to advertise minimum wage opportunities with little in the way of prospects.

 

Whilst claimants (or are they referred to as customers now?) Are encouraged to register with independent employment agencies, use local and national press etc, the prerequisite question immediately before signing on is "have you used the terminal for job search, and where are your printouts?".

 

JCP's admin officers are 'all and nothing' they are not recruitment consultants, nor benefit advisers, their capacity (within the confines of their role) to dispense helpful guidance and advice is low, but their ability and expectation to make demands is high, so it's an onerous, tedious, repetitive daily chore to fit square pegs, into round holes.

 

I was effectively scrapheaped in 2008, cheerio John your services are no longer in demand, but we "wish you well in your future endeavors" (don't you just hate that phrase?), it's always accompanied by a thin smile, and an uncomfortable air of embarrassment, "I'm sure a man of your experience will nave no problems blah, blah," (fill the rest of the quote with mindless drivel coated with a layer of sickly fake sentiment).

 

I entered the world of the eager job seeker with a light heart, a spring in my step, and a head full of expectations, after all I had the benefit of 35 years work experience, a skilled man, well qualified in several roles, the future is bright, the future is rosy......but......it don't half hurt when you come down to earth with a bump, especially when you're getting on a bit!

 

Anyway, the weeks turned into months, and I spent the time constructively re-inventing myself, and producing CV's that were mini masterpieces in creative writing, quickly learning to condense six pages of vital information into a concise two page resume which I sent to all and sundry by every delivery method known to man, without success, nothing, zip, zero, barely a reply let alone an interview.

 

The problem it seemed was DOB, whats DOB, or more precisely D.O.B.? You may well ask, it was explained to me by a lovely young girl at JCP "DOB stands for date of birth Mr H, you are including it on your CV" "whats wrong with that?" I replied "it lets them know you are 55 years old she whispered, leave it off the CV and wing it at the interview".

 

Excellent advice methinks, so that's just what I do, lo and behold! The door is unlocked! I have been invited for an interview, what the stunningly pretty admin person omitted to advise me to do, was get a facelift and dye my grey hair, the DOB ruse was quickly discovered, and my plans thwarted.

 

In my case there was a road to Damascus moment, divine intervention you might say, I was diagnosed with COPD and migrated on to ESA, my CV's are confined to my hard drive, and my expectations consigned to the dustbin.

 

From my experience JCP still wears the mantle of the old labour exchange, she might be wearing new clothes and makeup, but it's still the same tired old brass underneath, you don't particularly want to indulge in her services, but she has been given new teeth and nails to torture you with if you don't, unless you are very careful you will exit the experience bitten, scratched, frustrated and skint.

 

My flirtations now are with another mistress, she is more cruel and sadistic, shows no mercy, and is deaf to all entreaty, the last Tart had a heart, this one has a swinging brick.

[citizenkain]

I used to apply for loads a jobs myself and the job centre staff didnt like it cos they had to write it up on their computer file when i had the fortnightly sign on! osdset,why dont you try and get a book written and published as youve got a great turn of phrase and are certainly well educated in your writing!

[RealName]

I didn't catch this at the time I was shown it, but the job in question also requires me to have both a driving license and access to my own vehicle. I have neither. But oh well, I applied to it anyway so they can't complain about that.

 

To address another issue, recently I was forced to attend a meeting with someone at the job centre who would tell me about what being a camera operator involved, something I obviously already know considering I've been studying it for the last five years and have a degree in it. I wasn't too thrilled when all she did was show me a web page I'd wrote an essay on in college and go through it with me. I've also been forced to attend a lecture on how to use computers next week, something else which I already know how to do. Obviously it's frustrating to attend these things which I'm getting no benefit from, but they've been telling me that they're mandatory and failure to attend will result in my money being stopped, so I have been attending and will continue to do so. I'm away in Paris from the 12th to the 14th and I'm worried that they might arrange something for me on one of those days. Would having already paid for a holiday be a valid reason for not being able to attend or would they expect me to cancel it? I've been told in the past that the things they've arranged for me are unable to be refused or rearranged. One of the reasons I used to refuse the previously mentioned job in question was that they wanted me to work on a Saturday and I didn't wish to do so due to having already paid for a season ticket for a football club. A reason which was deemed unacceptable. I wonder if the same would apply to a holiday.

[feelingsad]

I think JCP's own job search system is ok for those who are unable or unwilling to look for work themselves, obviously the vast majority of people are able to use other better methods of finding work outside of that. Obviously no one wants to just live on JSA and do actually want to work. No one I know anyway!

[sillygirl1]

I agree with the above poster, my DOB is not on my CV at all but my level of experience and the fact that I have had two employers in the last 17 years gives my age away.

 

In my local area there is a 'special initiative' to get all school, college and university leavers into work within 6 months of their leaving, therefore the likes of me are left to one side.

 

In itself it is a good idea but it does cut out a lot of the population that can still contribute financially to the area, I was actually told they target the young to get them into 'a good work ethic' and the elder less skilled people can become carers for the babies and old people.

 

It's harking back to the days where the 'priveledged' daughters of the house didn't have to work and were actively discouraged from doing so because 'they would be taking away jobs from people who actually need them'.

[insyder]

If you read the sentence you quoted you will notice I've used the past tense, "when I WAS claiming",

 

I read the sentence. My sentence was also in the past tense

 

you felt that you needed to "play along" to keep them happy. Were you not actually looking for work then?

My point is still that the JSAg should reflect your jobsearch and not a non-descript customer's. If you are not happy with it then tell the advisor.

[sillygirl1]

I was told that you had to have 'six activities' each fortnightly period to prove you are looking for a job. Well, in the last week I have logged 19, I haven't listed individually each jobsite I have read or each email I get listing jobs, I get jobs from

 

NHS Direct (I am a qualified medical secretary)

Jobsite

Monster

Computer Futures

Reed (a bit useless because they seem to concentrate on young graduates)

CV Library

 

and that is just the main ones who do daily emails, add to that reading the local paper, Evening Standard and Metro and I certainly spend more than the 8 minutes a fortnight the Daily Mail likes to tout as the 'average jobseeker's time spent jobhunting'.

 

I have written articles and letters and sent them to the DM pointing out their errors and adding my own research but are they interested? Nope, I don't 'fit their criteria'.

[flumps1976]

Realname, as you are abroad for a holiday you will have to close your claim and then make a rapid reclaim on your return sorry.