Cap1 & CCA return

[pugsley]

nice to see you posting Peter, I hope you are well

 

Sandy x:)

[Peterbard]

HI thanks Pugs;ey I am getting ther slowly

 

A set of T and cs stapled to a a signature document does not make the two part of the same document.

 

The whole point is that they have to show that all the requitements regarding your protection were available to you both precontractualy or the agreement is unenforceable under section 55 and at the signing of the agreement section 61/65.

 

Peter

[car2403]

Hi Guys

 

Have been reading through the posts with keen interest on this subject. I have received a number of CCAs (all for credit cards) and all in various formats, as follows....

 

* Some I have only received the current terms and conditions and nothing else

 

* One makes absolutely no reference whatsoever to credit limit

 

* Most I have received the application form which appears to double as a credit agreement with a copy of the current T&Cs (which is a photocopy of the folded A4 sheet - if you know what I mean!)

 

* Some I haven't received anything within 42 days, so I guess the chaps have committed the proverbial criminal offence.

 

* Some of the application forms have no creditor signature - but apparently that doesn't matter because they can sign it later (or so I've read somewhere)

 

Anyone know where I stand on these please?

 

1. If they are over the 42 day limit am I right in thinking they MUST get a court order to execute the document?

 

2. If the documents aren't complete do they have to get a court order to execute the agreement?

 

3. If the agreement does not have all the prescribed terms do they have to get a court order to execute the agreement?

 

Would appreciate some advice here please if anyone has any to offer.

 

Many thanks

jax

 

Hi Jax,

 

I know this might be some work for you, but we really, really need to see the detail of each of the cases you have.

 

The best way to do that would be to start a separate thread for each one, pasting up what you have/haven't got, then getting specific advice on each thread.

 

Here's how;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

[SteveH2508]

Hi Guys

 

Have been reading through the posts with keen interest on this subject. I have received a number of CCAs (all for credit cards) and all in various formats, as follows....

 

* Some I have only received the current terms and conditions and nothing else

 

* One makes absolutely no reference whatsoever to credit limit

 

* Most I have received the application form which appears to double as a credit agreement with a copy of the current T&Cs (which is a photocopy of the folded A4 sheet - if you know what I mean!)

 

* Some I haven't received anything within 42 days, so I guess the chaps have committed the proverbial criminal offence.

 

* Some of the application forms have no creditor signature - but apparently that doesn't matter because they can sign it later (or so I've read somewhere)

 

Anyone know where I stand on these please?

 

1. If they are over the 42 day limit am I right in thinking they MUST get a court order to execute the document?

 

2. If the documents aren't complete do they have to get a court order to execute the agreement?

 

3. If the agreement does not have all the prescribed terms do they have to get a court order to execute the agreement?

 

Would appreciate some advice here please if anyone has any to offer.

 

Many thanks

jax

 

Quick answers:

 

1. No - they can enforce without a court order assuming that the paperwork they produce complies fully with the CCA74. (However see 2 & 3)

 

2 & 3. Depends (see car2403's post)

[aBitofaPickle]

I am in court in 2 weeks and would appreciate comments on the credit agreement the DCA have sent me.

FD 1st page.pdf

FD 2nd page.pdf

FD 3rd page.pdf

[jax007]

Thanx for replies guys.

 

As i have a high-speed soopadoopa scanner at work I'll do these on Tuesday and get a separate thread started then.

 

Cheers

jax

 

 

PS Peter I am assuming from the previous posts that you haven't been too well and obviously off-site. I hope it's nothing serious and I wish you better.

[car2403]

I am in court in 2 weeks and would appreciate comments on the credit agreement the DCA have sent me.

 

This is an application form for a bank account.

 

Bank accounts are regulated under the Act, but are subject to an OFT declaration under s.74 that means they are exempt from the agreement form and content requirements of s.60/s.61.

 

That said, there are some requirements for them to receive the benefit of that determination, such as they should have written to you telling you what charges and interest rates would apply and how they would terminate the agreement - if they haven't done that, they can't rely on the determination. Without an agreement then, they will have an unenforceable debt under s.127(3).

 

There's more info on this in my Barclays default removal thread;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bcard-woolwich-successes/93273-car2403-barclays-bank.html

 

Do you have a thread on this one?

[TideTurner]

Can anybody please provide some URGENT help on this thread and advise whether a CCA should be provided. This case is in Court on Tuesday and is a repossession. If a CCA is required, the case could be adjourned.

 

Here's the thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/142793-tilly-mortgage-express-repo-new-post.html

 

Didn't realise PB wasn't well and PM'd him but no joy yet.

 

Any help most appreciated.

 

Tide

[Nokia6230]

hi,

 

can any one tell me im about to send 3 cca's Should i include 3 £1 SIGNED cheques or is it better to send postal orders.

 

Will send by recorded delivery though

 

Thanks

 

NOkia6230

[Goldlady]

I sent cheques but added an extra letter into my signature so if a Blue Peter special appeared I could prove it. Probably safer to send POs

[MilkTrayMan]

The trouble with PO's is that U have NO way of knowing whether or not they have been cashed.

...Unless they deduct the £1 from your 'alleged' account with them + it shows up on your CR with a CRA.

 

Personally, I would favour asking someone else to send one of THEIR cheques on your behalf instead.

I would also strictly express in your letter, that the £1 is DEFFO for the CCA 1974 Request + NOT to be used as a Credit to your 'alleged' account...

 

 

...

[jax007]

Hello Guys

 

I have now copied, scanned and created pdf files for 8 'replies' to my requests for CCAs.

 

I will start a new thread for each credit card but can someone please give me an idiot's guide to uploading pdf files please? Or do I just attach them?

 

Ta muchly

jax

[MilkTrayMan]

...can someone please give me an idiot's guide to uploading pdf files please? Or do I just attach them?...

Try scanning + uploading your Docs to Photobucket, as described HERE.

...Then once U have uploaded your Docs to Photobucket, just left click on the IMG Code (...this copies the url addy of your piccie), then right click + paste into your text.

...There's NO need to click on ANY of the 'attachments'/'insert image' buttons before U Submit your Post...

 

 

...

[jax007]

GAWD..........!! Well I'll give it a go. thanx for info MTM

 

Will be posting separate threads as suggested further up this one

 

jax

[bathgatebuyer]

I would always use a postal order or a cheque from someone else as I would not trust the blighters to use a bit of artistic expression and copy your signature and recreate a CCA to suit.

[citizenB]

The trouble with PO's is that U have NO way of knowing whether or not they have been cashed.

...Unless they deduct the £1 from your 'alleged' account with them + it shows up on your CR with a CRA.

 

Personally, I would favour asking someone else to send one of THEIR cheques on your behalf instead.

I would also strictly express in your letter, that the £1 is DEFFO for the CCA 1974 Request + NOT to be used as a Credit to your 'alleged' account...

 

 

...

 

MTM, you get a counterfoil/recept with a postal order. If you want to check if it has been cashed you just fill in a form and send it to the post office. Long winded I know, and all for a £1.00. But at least you know for sure.

[madjj111]

never thought about that before - about them having our signatures on the cheque - good thinking

 

i have asked for my cca - the case which referred to DEBITAS who going to take me to court. When i denied i owed the money and asked for the CCA - they have asked for the letter i sent requesting needs a signature. WIth advice from this site, i sent another letter with a signature i will recognise if the use it....hopefully they will

 

so - i agree with the advice above - get someone else to write the cheque.

[citizenB]

 

 

 

 

* Some of the application forms have no creditor signature - but apparently that doesn't matter because they can sign it later (or so I've read somewhere)

 

 

I am a little confused about this statement. One or two 'APPLICATION' forms I have received have no creditor signature.

 

Are you saying that if it went to court, they could just sign it a couple of days before the court hearing and it would be acceptable ??

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Is APR excepted as a perscribed term?

 

HAK

[davefirewalker]

Is APR excepted as a perscribed term?

 

HAK

 

sort of...... depends on your point of view and what sort of loan / credit you have.....APR per se is not a prescribed term, however interest rate IS. but the rate can be determined from the apr and the apr can be determined from the rate.

 

It depends on the type of loan /credit. some require APR and some demand rate of interest.

 

Dave

[MilkTrayMan]

Is APR excepted as a perscribed term?

A bit of reading matter for U over the w/e HAK...

Consumer Credit Act 1974

Consumer Credit Act 2006

 

 

...

[jax007]

CitizenB I have put the word 'application' in quotes as these are the application forms I completed to acquire the credit card and this is what they have sent me a copy of and which appears to double as an agreement.

 

However, as stated, all but one does NOT have a creditor signature and some don't even have a space for it.

 

I have read (I think further back on this thread and also over on LB) that if it went to court it is highly likely the judge would get them to sign it there and then and legally enforce it. The consensus of opinion is that the lack of creditor signature is a very weak argument and one that will go against the debtor if challenged in court.

 

I am sure someone (maybe Peter or Curlyben) will put me right if I am wrong here

 

jax

[car2403]

CitizenB I have put the word 'application' in quotes as these are the application forms I completed to acquire the credit card and this is what they have sent me a copy of and which appears to double as an agreement.

 

However, as stated, all but one does NOT have a creditor signature and some don't even have a space for it.

 

I have read (I think further back on this thread and also over on LB) that if it went to court it is highly likely the judge would get them to sign it there and then and legally enforce it. The consensus of opinion is that the lack of creditor signature is a very weak argument and one that will go against the debtor if challenged in court.

 

I am sure someone (maybe Peter or Curlyben) will put me right if I am wrong here

 

jax

 

An application form can only be enforced if it contains the prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor.

 

The effect of s.127(3) means that a missing creditors signature has little effect on enforceability, as it is likely to be enforceable with a Court Order at least.

[jax007]

I have scanned my CCAs into pdf files but I can't upload them using Photobucket as it won't recognise the pdf.

 

Can anyone give me some advice please?

 

Ta

jax

[MilkTrayMan]

Re-scan them + save them as jpeg...

...