Cap1 & CCA return

[means2anend]

roygoodbeat!!!

 

The signature box states ''this a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms''

 

The page is ONLY an application form...it's FONTS SIZE COLOUR TEXT AND SHAPE ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER and is dead give-away as THE SIGNATURE DOCUMENT NOT BEING CONTEMPORANEOUS with subsequent ''reconstituted'' documents.The documents that came with the first page are no longer in existence so the subsequent pages must have been reconstituted from ''other sources''...it is dubious that this is a TRUE COPY.

 

It may not be possible even to place this agreement within the principle of 'Prescribed Terms Present At Time Of Signature'

 

It is obvious then that you HAVE NOT SIGNED a CREDIT AGREEMENT ..because your ORIGINAL SIGNATURE WOULD NOT AND CANNOT BE ON ''THE ORIGINAL???'' FROM WHICH THOSE CONSTITUTED DOCUMENTS CAME FROM!!!

 

The original (OR application form) is of a totally different format as you can see from your post ups.

 

It CANNOT BE A PROPERLY EXECUTED AGREEMENT=NO CONTRACT= NO RIGHTS/LIABILITIES AT COMMON LAW=NO REPORTING OF ADVERSE INFO TO CRA's .

 

..add to that all the other problems mentioned above (but a few) then all you need is to present it in a easily to follow manner.

 

m2ae

Edited April 18, 2010 by means2anend
insert 'not' between 'would' AND 'and'

[roygoodbeat]

Thanks. Its October 2003. The t&C's are reconstited ones, but I have come home today and received a letter from there new solicitors.

 

 

In it contains the same T&C's in a different format. But they have stated that this is what would have been on the reverse. (This would be the application form)

 

What regs require the original and does this have any relevance. They sent a letter on the 16th to advise of a change of solicitor. This letter would have arrived on the 17th. (Yesterday) Nothing like leaving it to the last minute.

[means2anend]

The Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983/1553 would

DEFINITELY apply then and NOT the amended version...and that is what I was working from

 

They would NOT be able to produce an ORIGINAL in COURT on this basis.The above documents are RUBBISH!!!

 

They do NOT need to send you THE ORIGINAL in response to a section 78 request.But they must send you a TRUE COPY of the ORIGINAL according to Carey V HSBC...

 

Anyway your signature does not seem to be on the same document as any Prescribed TERM..A REQUIREMENT of s 61(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974..and as your agreement is pre-2008 you are still entitled to rely on s127(3) which does not allow a court to EVEN CONSIDER enforcing the agreement for the want of a Prescribed TERM

[means2anend]

I have the allocation hearing on Tuesday. Can someone check this to see if it valid:

 

1) This is a front copy of the said agreement, which clearly states application form, but is almost illegible in places.

 

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u.../agreement.jpg

 

2) They have supplied a reconstructed credit agreement, not a copy of the original.

Page 1:

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted1.jpg

Page 2:

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted2.jpg

Page 3:

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted3.jpg

Page 4:

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted4.jpg

Page 5:

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted5.jpg

Page 6:

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...onstrcted6.jpg

 

If they produce these T&C's stating that this is what would have been set out, I am I correct that they will still need to produce the original and what parts of law state that for cards issued after 2004? (Is that the date or is it 2006) do not have to have the originals, and which parts of law state that before this date they have to supply originals?

 

Finally, when a claim is submitted and the N1CPC is sent, what should accompany this? The claim form referred to ' full particulars are supplied hitherto' but these were not served with this.

 

Can any one advise which part of the pre court protocols should they have adherred to?

 

Just beginning to panic and I want everything clear in my mind.

 

 

In response to your query about CPR..

 

For your situation look at CPR Parts 7,9 and 31

 

Deals with Particulars of Claim, Responding To Particulars Of Claim, Disclosure And Inspection Of Documents respectively

 

 

m2ae

Edited April 18, 2010 by means2anend
insert ''and inspection of''

[means2anend]

According to Part 9 if they have not served the particulars WITH or IN the claim form but have said that they will follow separately then you need not do anything until you are served with them

 

Once the particulars are served upon you may

(a) file or serve an admission in accordance with Part 14

(b) file a defence in accordance with Part 15

(or do both if he admits only part of the claim); or

© file an acknowledgement of service in accordance with Part 10

(Para 10.6 of the Practice Direction to Part 16 contains provision about the content of the admission, defence or acknowledgement of service)

 

m2ae

[means2anend]

roygoodbeat

 

Here is the homepage...for the things relevant to you..i.e CPR/Pre-Action Protocols and many others.Check in the left hand navigation panel..everything is there if you not already have access to them

 

I would also advise you to click on in the left at Rules And Practice Directions!!!

 

CPR - Forms - Ministry of Justice

 

rgds

 

m2ae

 

any further problems just post!!!

[roygoodbeat]

Even if those terms and conditions were on the reverse side, they are unenforceable? The copy they sent did not have my name or address, or theirs. Only stated that this is what would have been on the reverse side.

 

I will look at the CPR. They did not respond when the claim form came in. No documents attached, just the court form. Wrote them a pre protocols letter to return copies of the docs and default notice. They did not send these and had to submit an embarrassed defence.

 

They haven't even kept a copy of the default notice and proof of postage. Only supplied a template and a computer record that something was produced.

[means2anend]

REGULATIONS 1983/1553 AND HHJ Waksman clearly state name and address SHALL be on the TRUE COPY!!!

 

''would've been'' not good enough!!!

[Desperate Daniella]

I love it when they say the prescribed terms "would have been" on the reverse side. I got sent a copy of an agreement and a copy of what they said was on the back of it. The only problem (for them) is that what they said was on the back doesn't actually fit. Cleverly photocopied - but half an inch out if you measure it, and if they make the print size any smaller it won't be legible!

[Dotty50]

subbing

[Mightyacorn]

Hi Alisha,

Welcome to CAG. Firstly you need to start your own thread otherwise your enquiry will be lost in this thread, secondly you need to have sight of ALL relevant paperwork. Do an SAR to the company and see what they've got.

 

 

Alisha,

Go to top of this page, you'll see a box, which says Welcome Alisha, in right hand side, on left hand side of box you'll see it gives a breakwhere you are in the Forum:- The Consumer Forums > The Consumer Forums The Bank Action Group - against unlawful bank charges > General > Consumer Credit Act Agreements

 

click on "General" and it will open a new window, scroll down the page and on left hand side should be a box which says "New Thread", click on that and away you go.

[uptoeyeballs]

Hello!

 

I've been pondering something. Are injunctions of use once a CO is in place?

 

I've started a thread here and it would be great to get some views on it:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/256470-ccj-co-set-asides.html

 

Thanks!

 

uteb.

[GuitarHero]

Can some please have a look at this agreement.

 

There is no total amount of credit - and as its a variable interest rate I thought at the very least there should be a statement stating how that rate is calculated.

 

If they've given payment amounts and final payment how can it not be a fixed interest rate? Very confusing.

 

[means2anend]

Can some please have a look at this agreement.

 

There is no total amount of credit - and as its a variable interest rate I thought at the very least there should be a statement stating how that rate is calculated.

 

If they've given payment amounts and final payment how can it not be a fixed interest rate? Very confusing.

 

 

THE LADIES will be with you soon

[Mightyacorn]

Can some please have a look at this agreement.

 

There is no total amount of credit - and as its a variable interest rate I thought at the very least there should be a statement stating how that rate is calculated.

 

If they've given payment amounts and final payment how can it not be a fixed interest rate? Very confusing.

 

Hi GH,

 

You're in danger of getting lost in here, please start your own thread, post a link on here by all means.

 

Go to top of this page, you'll see a box, which says Welcome GuitarHero, in right hand side, on left hand side of box you'll see it gives a breakdown where you are in the Forum:- The Consumer Forums > The Consumer Forums The Bank Action Group - against unlawful bank charges > General > Consumer Credit Act Agreements

 

click on "General" and it will open a new window, scroll down the page and on left hand side should be a box which says "New Thread", click on that and away you go.

[GuitarHero]

Okay will do.

Edited April 21, 2010 by GuitarHero
whoops misuderstood

[vint1954]

THE LADIES will be with you soon

It does actually state that the interest rate will be 2% above their flat rate.

[GuitarHero]

Yes agreed on the interest - but why no total cost of credit/loan? Again it would just be guideline but then so is the 6.1 APR. It most have been calculated to get the APR.

[vint1954]

They cannot state the total amount of credit if the interest rate is variable

[GuitarHero]

Ah.. as I suspected then this document is okay. Couldn't for the life of me find reference to variable rates and total credit - I assume its in one of the Consumer Credit Agreement regulations - but which one? the 1980 one is difficult to track down.

[AnimalMagic]

I've suggested this in a mortgage thread... S140 appears to be a very potent piece of legislation. If you can put together a case showing that the lender has acted irresponsibly or enforced unreasonably, then you could initiate a simple CC action to have the agreement declared illegal and therefore unenforceable.

 

AFAIK the only exemptions are mortgages after Oct 2004, every other consumer agreement is covered whether regulated or not.

 

As an example, I have a bad credit rating as I fell into debt. Now prior to this I had a perfect credit rating for some 30 years. My understanding of this system was that if you had a poor credit rating you would not get credit, however I had no idea that you wouldn't even be able to open a bank account...! As a result, I am restricted in how I can earn a living and this also affects my ability to pay my bills. I would consider this very unfair...

 

Given that we all undoubtedly have bad credit ratings, could this not be a solid argument to have the entire agreement declared illegal?

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi AnimalMagic,

 

Like you I had a perfect credit rating for 30 years and like many people here a lot of what then went wrong was due to circumstances beyond my control.

 

I know that some people have been putting forward the irresponsible lending argument but I'm not certain how anyone has been getting on. It would be good to know if anyone has actually won on this.

 

You can get a bank account. The Co-operative Bank take anyone apparently - people who have been bankrupt, people on charging orders, anything I believe. You'd have to ask them, but from what I've read here they are very good about opening accounts for people with bad credit ratings. I gather you don't get a cheque book, there is no overdraft facility, and I don't think they've got that many branches, but you do get a debit card so can pay your bills like that or draw cash on it. Hopefully they'll be able to help you.

 

DD

[tedney]

You can get a bank account. The Co-operative Bank take anyone apparently - people who have been bankrupt, people on charging orders, anything I believe. You'd have to ask them, but from what I've read here they are very good about opening accounts for people with bad credit ratings. I gather you don't get a cheque book, there is no overdraft facility and you do get a debit card so can pay your bills like that or draw cash on it.

 

DD

Hello AnimalMagic

Like you I am in the same situation, but I opened a Lloyds account in June 07, like the account conditions DD referred to, with direct debits and standing orders etc.

They call it a cash account!

HTH

tedney

[AnimalMagic]

Thanks Daniella,

 

Co Op also require 1000 balance maintained and charge a lot for each transaction if you don't. But you are correct they do seem to take anyone on... I only found them recently, so, at the very least, I have been disadvantaged since 2006 when I returned to work...

 

My case is much stronger than that - We were ill at the time of taking the mortgage out and desperate - we needed to raise money to take legal action against a noisy neighbour - my wife collapsed from exhaustion and a suspected TIA around the same time. We have also been subjected to excessive charges when falling into arrears, the latest being a large sum in Service Charges which we actually have no legal liability for. Our mortgage company has acted very unreasonably throughout.

[tedney]

 

Co Op also require 1000 balance maintained and charge a lot for each transaction

My Lloyds account does not have this restriction, and no charges for anything, provided you maintain any credit balance. Not sure if still available, as was 07 when I took account out.

tedney