MBNA - Let battle commence / **DISCONTINUED**

[Mightyacorn]

CCA Letter sent, recorded delivery of course, 11/11/08

 

 

 

 

 

Letter received from MBNA having been posted by them 9/12/08

 

 

 

 

 

 

As can be seen none of them contain a signature, plus the covering letter by Bez Shaw, states "We are sorry we have not been able to send you a photocopy of the original....", I presume this is because they haven't got the original or are they playing their cards close to their chest?

Edited December 30, 2008 by Mightyacorn

[fedup74]

Hi Mightyacorn the agreements are too small to be seen but from what you are saying they don't have your agreement so the account is in dispute.

[Mightyacorn]

 

 

 

 

[Mightyacorn]

[Mightyacorn]

[citizenB]

Hi MA,

 

Umm, terms and conditions and current ones at that (this is obvious from the £12.00 default charges). Are you able to advise, what year this account was opened ?.

 

IMHO, I would send the following letter to the OFT, provided by Bankfodder. Amend the draft to show that this is from the Original Creditor rather than a DCA. Include copies of the current terms and conditions that MBNA have provided you with.

 

OFT will reply that they are unable to investigate individual complaints, they will however also include in their reply what the company is supposed to provide. They will also send you a form asking you to sign and return in the event they receive sufficient complaints to start an investigation. Obviously you do need to sign this, but do so in a way that is totally different from your normal signature and keep a copy of the page for your reference.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement.html

 

HTH

[Mightyacorn]

Thanks CB, will do. I think I opened the account at least 10 years ago.

 

I have decided to go down the SAR route, because everytime I ask for documents relating to one account number they send me ones pertaining to another account number. So I have SAR'd them listing all the account numbers they have sent me. I've only sent one £10 postal order though.

[Mightyacorn]

Right, five months down the line, a couple of stays in hospital, and I'm bac in action.

 

Did SAR and MBNA sent me a load of paperwork, mostly printouts and, to me, mostly goobledegook.

 

There was however a document which I assume to be my agreement :-

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/AgreementEdited.jpg

 

The first thing I notice is there is no 'other party' signature, am I right in thinking that BOTH parties have to sign the agreement for it to be enforceable?

 

Secondly there is no credit limit, does it have to have a credit limit stipulated? or does the 'we will notify you from time to time' cover this?

 

Whilst examining the SAR return, I get a letter from Lewis Debt Recovery:-

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/Lewis.jpg

 

As there was no statements etc. I wrote back to MBNA with a LBA :-

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/LBA-6-7-09.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/LBA-6-7-090001.jpg

 

And I then write to LDR, with 'Account in Dispute' letter:-

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/Lewis0001.jpg

 

That was in July, then I get a letter from Howard Cohen:-

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/cohen.jpg

 

And then this morning a County Court Claim Form issued on 14th September.

 

I now need help please.

 

I've already replied using moneyclaim, and indicated that I disagree with the claim.

 

Any advice please.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Mightyacorn
Spelling and corrections

[Mydogsawestie]

Hi Mightyacorn now you have court paperwork maybe your thread needs moving to the legal section by the site team. Have you had a Default Notice terminating this agreement? It would be useful for more experience caggers then to check it over for you along with your agreements uploaded.

 

You are right in thinking both parties have to sign the agreement for it to be enforceable. When I was in court in July the solicitors in my case on behalf of MBNA tried this on with me saying the priority req form as well as my signature contained the claimants (it did not) he tried to make out that the sticker (barcode) over my priority request form is where the signature of theres would be but without the orig (not brought to court) how will we know that though????? I also said it contained no prescribed terms/CLimit either and along with other things (DN probs) round one went to me.

 

Have you posted a CPR 31.14 yet now. See this if not http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...eal-their.html

[Mightyacorn]

Hi Mightyacorn now you have court paperwork maybe your thread needs moving to the legal section by the site team. Have you had a Default Notice terminating this agreement? It would be useful for more experience caggers then to check it over for you along with your agreements uploaded.

 

You are right in thinking both parties have to sign the agreement for it to be enforceable. When I was in court in July the solicitors in my case on behalf of MBNA tried this on with me saying the priority req form as well as my signature contained the claimants (it did not) he tried to make out that the sticker (barcode) over my priority request form is where the signature of theres would be but without the orig (not brought to court) how will we know that though????? I also said it contained no prescribed terms/CLimit either and along with other things (DN probs) round one went to me.

 

Have you posted a CPR 31.14 yet now. See this if not http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...eal-their.html

 

Thanks Mydog,

Yes, I have a DN sent by MBNA, received in May. I have just noitice DN dated 8th May, gives me until 25th May, to remedy, yet Cohen's alledge debt assigned to them on 21st May.

 

I have not yet posted a CPR 31.14 yet, but we know from experience that Cohen's will not respond to it.

 

Should I report MBNA/Cohen's to OFT and ICO seeing as how they have not, in my opinion, complied with SAR request?

Edited September 19, 2009 by Mightyacorn
added material

[Mydogsawestie]

The DN dates may be fine HOWEVER I believe if an acct is terminated but they sell the debt on during the 14 day period then the acct was termininated on the faulty DN as it left you no time to remedy the default notice with them.

 

Cohens are the solicitors though right? so arent they just acting on behalf of MBNA and not a debt credit agency themselves in having it assigned to them!

 

CPR 31.14 does have a clear and valuable part to play so I would certainly have a read up on that thread now that legal action against you has started should you want to pursue the inadequate credit card agreement route.

 

The SAR, you mentioned you have received printouts already so I gather this will be in response to the SAR you requested on the accts so why do you think they have not complied with your SAR request?

[Mightyacorn]

The DN dates may be fine HOWEVER I believe if an acct is terminated but they sell the debt on during the 14 day period then the acct was termininated on the faulty DN as it left you no time to remedy the default notice with them.

 

Cohens are the solicitors though right? so arent they just acting on behalf of MBNA and not a debt credit agency themselves in having it assigned to them! No the account was assigned to CL Finance, Cohen's are acting on their behalf.

CPR 31.14 does have a clear and valuable part to play so I would certainly have a read up on that thread now that legal action against you has started should you want to pursue the inadequate credit card agreement route.

 

The SAR, you mentioned you have received printouts already so I gather this will be in response to the SAR you requested on the accts so why do you think they have not complied with your SAR request? Because they haven't sent everything I requested, there is no statements for instance despite the fact that I specifically asked for them

 

Give me a minute and I'll upload a copy of my SAR and a sample of what they have sent.

[Mydogsawestie]

Will wait to see your samples.

 

If assigned to CL Finance then they have not given you the 14 days before assigning it naughty naughty. Have a look at this thread in your forthcoming actions it should help you with whats ahead. upto the eyeballs v CL Finance No CCA IN COURT ** Help **

[Mightyacorn]

Right here we go :-

My SAR

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/MySAR.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/MySAR0001.jpg

 

And some of the stuff they sent me :-

[url=http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/MBNASAR000.jpg][/url]

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/MBNASAR0026.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/MBNASAR0056.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/MBNASAR000.jpg

Edited September 19, 2009 by Mightyacorn

[Mydogsawestie]

Give me a minute and I'll upload a copy of my SAR and a sample of what they have sent.

 

 

And some of the stuff they sent me :-

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq331/mightyacorn2008/MBNA/MBNASAR000.jpg

 

You might want to edit this as it has your personal name on it? This looks like the sort of info I was sent on my SAR request.

 

If we can ask a MOD to post your thread to the legal section by pressing the red triangle lets hope you gain more experienced caggers going forward with this.....

[Mightyacorn]

Will wait to see your samples.

 

If assigned to CL Finance then they have not given you the 14 days before assigning it naughty naughty. Have a look at this thread in your forthcoming actions it should help you with whats ahead. upto the eyeballs v CL Finance No CCA IN COURT ** Help **

 

It may be 'naughty naughty', but why? Is there somewhere where it actually says "illegal", "unlawful", "not complying" etc. please?

 

I am well aware of the tactics of Cohen having run into them before.

[citizenB]

Thanks Mydog,

Yes, I have a DN sent by MBNA, received in May. I have just noitice DN dated 8th May, gives me until 25th May, to remedy, yet Cohen's alledge debt assigned to them on 21st May.

 

I have not yet posted a CPR 31.14 yet, but we know from experience that Cohen's will not respond to it.

 

Should I report MBNA/Cohen's to OFT and ICO seeing as how they have not, in my opinion, complied with SAR request?

 

Was the DN issued May 2009 ?. If so, then the date for remedy is out.

 

The 8th was a Friday, therefore the earliest it could have been received had it been posted Royal 1st class would have been the 12th. Sending either UK Mail (1st or 2nd style) Royal Mail 2nd class would have left even less time.

 

Assigning an account prior to the remedy date of the DN IMHO, amounts to termination of the account with the original creditor. The account was also in dispute, and according to OFT Guidelines, this kind of activity is a no no.

 

Those examples of data from your SAR one of them is the comms log which apparently can be quite useful. Check all the paperwork you have against it date wise. Did the DN date correspond with the entry on the log, etc. You might also check to see if they officially terminated the account prior to assigning it over and again... do the dates match.

 

I will try and find someone who has experience in interpreting them look in on you.

 

Having set Cohens on you after your advising them of your health issues seems to me to be something you may well be able to bring up with the OFT/FOS.

 

Can you please let us know exactly what the POC say and what was the date of issue. Thanks.

[Mightyacorn]

Thanks CB,

Looking through all the paper work from them, MBNA's covering letter regarding the SAR is dated 2nd June, 2009, but all the printouts are dated 30th April, 2009, and there is nothing after that date. So cannot check DOA, amazing when you think my SAR was only posted on 25th April.

 

Also on 30th April is an entry on the Transactions Prinout stating 'Charge-off adjustment'.

 

POC :- The claimant's claim is for the sum of 2170.00 being monies due to the Claimant under regulated credit agreement between the defendant and MBNA Europe Bank Limited under reference *********** and assigned to the claimant on 21st May, 2009 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

[gezwee]

 

POC :- The claimant's claim is for the sum of 2170.00 being monies due to the Claimant under regulated credit agreement between the defendant and MBNA Europe Bank Limited under reference *********** and assigned to the claimant on 21st May, 2009 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

 

Subbing with interest........ Gun the jumping comes to mind

[Mydogsawestie]

Thanks CB,

Looking through all the paper work from them, MBNA's covering letter regarding the SAR is dated 2nd June, 2009, but all the printouts are dated 30th April, 2009, and there is nothing after that date. So cannot check DOA, amazing when you think my SAR was only posted on 25th April.

I smell a rat here, how convenient for them to halt the logs before May commenced, my SAR took almost the 40 days to arrive & if thats std practice you should have had the printouts at least up to whenever they terminated at least???

 

Also on 30th April is an entry on the Transactions Prinout stating 'Charge-off adjustment'.??

 

POC :- The claimant's claim is for the sum of 2170.00 being monies due to the Claimant under regulated credit agreement between the defendant and MBNA Europe Bank Limited under reference *********** and assigned to the claimant on 21st May, 2009 notice of which has been given to the defendant.This was before the date you were still to remedy with MBNA & as CB has confirmed is a no no.

It would be interesting to know if there is a way you can re-qualify this SAR data up to April plus why they have this charge off adjustment on the 30th April when the acct was still with them till 21st May!

 

I hope as CB said somebody who has more knowledge on SAR can advise & interpret it more for you soon.

[gezwee]

I'd ensure the DJ by way of the court manager sees a copy of Cohens correspondence.....leave it as close to hearing date as possible though so its still fresh in their mind - no DJ likes to see a decision being made for him/her. Cohens must think they're judge, jury and the other.

[Mightyacorn]

It would be interesting to know if there is a way you can re-qualify this SAR data up to April plus why they have this charge off adjustment on the 30th April when the acct was still with them till 21st May!

 

.

 

 

Or, indeed, if they 'charged it off' on 30th April, how could they default me on 8th May ???????

 

 

Looking for advice on this one please.....

[citizenB]

Thanks CB,

Looking through all the paper work from them, MBNA's covering letter regarding the SAR is dated 2nd June, 2009, but all the printouts are dated 30th April, 2009, and there is nothing after that date. So cannot check DOA, amazing when you think my SAR was only posted on 25th April.

 

Also on 30th April is an entry on the Transactions Prinout stating 'Charge-off adjustment'.

 

POC :- The claimant's claim is for the sum of 2170.00 being monies due to the Claimant under regulated credit agreement between the defendant and MBNA Europe Bank Limited under reference *********** and assigned to the claimant on 21st May, 2009 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

 

Or, indeed, if they 'charged it off' on 30th April, how could they default me on 8th May ???????

 

 

Looking for advice on this one please.....

 

The POCs are extremely vague so you wont be able to put in a fully particularised defence.

 

I think the "charge off" issue was covered in the threads of Fairbyblue and zhanzibar. I cant recall if it was something to do with tax or indeed indicative of termination.

 

Of course if it was the latter, then they most certainly shouldnt have issued a DN cos there was nothing to issue a DN on. I dont know how charging off for tax purposes then issuing a demand for money would be accounted for.

 

supasnooper or IveGotNoMoney would be the peeps to ask and at the moment, they dont seem to be online.

[citizenB]

Sorry I cant be more specific as to where to find the answer to the question re the charge off.. but you will definitely find it in this thread.. after post 300

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/170484-fairbyblue-mbna-restons-court-47.html

[Mightyacorn]

Sorry I cant be more specific as to where to find the answer to the question re the charge off.. but you will definitely find it in this thread.. after post 300

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/170484-fairbyblue-mbna-restons-court-47.html

 

 

That is some thread, CB, but at least I'm lookin in the right place.

 

Now need to put together a defence, anyone assist please?