Cap1 & CCA return

[MoonHawk]

pford, you might find the thread Wescot/RBOS ... Oh Dear interesting.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[pford]

pford, you might find the thread Wescot/RBOS ... Oh Dear interesting.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

thanks does make interesting reading

[shane5408]

pford, you might find the thread Wescot/RBOS ... Oh Dear interesting.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

Credit to Rory for that thread, I used the AML angle in a CCA request recently, got a response within 4 days!! They really are afraid of the Financial Crimes branch at HM Treasury, and so they should be!!

 

regards,

shane

[elizabeth1]

PFORD - another angle you can take is to file a claim against them (write advising them to sort it out or else you'll file)

 

In this if they've no CCA there is no enforceable Debt therefore they shouldn't share data or issue any default etc..

 

You can claim back charges, interest they charged you, PPI, and ALL MONEY you ever paid into account under Restitution - you can also ask for Damages as they wrote damaging nonsense about you.

 

There is plenty you can do as well as the post suggestions as above. If they've no CCA they have no rights really.

[patrickq1]

if you think we got problems now look at this

A Conservative government would tear up Britain's commitments on data protection and other regulations in a bid to create a more competitive economy.

A wide-ranging policy review set to be published this Friday will make the recommendations, which were backed today by shadow chancellor George Osborne in an interview with the Financial Times.at this

[patrickq1]

In June 2005, Labour MP Harry Cohen asked the Government exactly what problems the commission had identified when it said that the DPA was a defective implementation of the directive.

Parliamentary undersecretary Bridget Prentice refused to answer.

"We currently have no plans to disclose the detail of those discussions as the formal Commission investigation process is still taking place," she said. "If the Government were to disclose the information requested, it would prejudice the negotiating process between the UK and the Commission and so prejudice UK interests".

The articles of the directive which the commission claims have not been implemented properly are articles 2, 3, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 22, 23, 25 and 28 – just under a third of the directive's 34 articles. has anyone read these directives

[tomterm8]

You can claim back charges, interest they charged you, PPI, and ALL MONEY you ever paid into account under Restitution - you can also ask for Damages as they wrote damaging nonsense about you.

.

 

i wouldn't advise anyone to do this just yet - but a Data protection claim is always worthwhile.

 

At the moment, there is a case behind the scenes that could make me eat my words on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/112860-will-you-get-payments.html . I'm certainly hoping so

[tomterm8]

In June 2005, Labour MP Harry Cohen asked the Government exactly what problems the commission had identified when it said that the Data Protection Act was a defective implementation of the directive.

Parliamentary undersecretary Bridget Prentice refused to answer.

"We currently have no plans to disclose the detail of those discussions as the formal Commission investigation process is still taking place," she said. "If the Government were to disclose the information requested, it would prejudice the negotiating process between the UK and the Commission and so prejudice UK interests".

The articles of the directive which the commission claims have not been implemented properly are articles 2, 3, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 22, 23, 25 and 28 – just under a third of the directive's 34 articles. has anyone read these directives

 

Yes, I've read it, and yes IMHO the DPA is a flawed implementation of the directive.

[TideTurner]

Tom / Patrick,

 

The DPA 1998 replaced the DPA 1984. 1984 was the invasion of the desktop computer to industry. The majority of these systems were 'served' by mainframes, hence 'servers'.

 

The fear was that information, in particular databases containing large amounts of information could be made readily available to all and sundry, and could be used to their detriment.

 

At one stage the entire electoral role was available on CD for £30.00.

 

The provision and availability of personal information must be restricted, however the Act does make provision for exemption for National Security etc. which allows for 'controlled / secure' storage.

 

What else do we need.

 

Don't provide my information to anybody who does not fall under the exemption parts unless I provide my express permission that you can do so, and only use it for reasons pertaining to any business I have with you.

 

The Human Rights Act 1998 also gives power of rights to the individual e.g. Article 8 Rights to Privacy, which has an affect on the powers of the Police and the Security Forces.

 

Where the Authorities suspect crimes are taking place they will rely on other Acts to enforce, but your individual rights will not be abused by anybody who is not regulated.

 

The DPA and the Human Rights Act 1998 are there to protect the rights and abuse of data provision. Without them, there is no protection.

 

Tide

[e28bigalbexley]

God this thread is still going. Well done Dave im going to enter you for Guiness Book of Records:-)

 

AL

[elizabeth1]

i wouldn't advise anyone to do this just yet - but a Data protection claim is always worthwhile.

 

At the moment, there is a case behind the scenes that could make me eat my words on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/112860-will-you-get-payments.html . I'm certainly hoping so

 

 

Thank you Tom good points - and Yes I am watching a few cases with this topic too. Time will tell us soon enough.

[ncf355]

Liz,

 

would it be a good idea to start a seperate thread on restitution, so you can detail the reasons and case law ?

[patrickq1]

hi tide,

The fear was that information, in particular databases containing large amounts of information could be made readily available to all and sundry, and could be used to their detriment.

this is what has happened to loans .co.uk...it seems they have information about people who have had absolutely no connections with thejm,i suspect that it could only have come from experium and the like,but what has the ICO done about this sod all their should be an imediate closure of the company and all records audited to find out where they got their info from instead the ICO is still allowing them to trade,so what chance do we have when blatant abuse is going on like this (i know that L.uk are blaming one member of their staff,,this does not wash the important thing being where did they get some of the info from

[andrew1]

hi tide,

The fear was that information, in particular databases containing large amounts of information could be made readily available to all and sundry, and could be used to their detriment.

this is what has happened to loans .co.uk...it seems they have information about people who have had absolutely no connections with thejm,i suspect that it could only have come from experium and the like,but what has the Information Commissioners Office done about this sod all their should be an imediate closure of the company and all records audited to find out where they got their info from instead the Information Commissioners Office is still allowing them to trade,so what chance do we have when blatant abuse is going on like this (i know that L.uk are blaming one member of their staff,,this does not wash the important thing being where did they get some of the info from

 

What would happen if you sent in a Subject Access Request under the DPA, surely then you'd know where the info came from? I just got a mailer from The Money Group in Falmouth, having been in arrears with a few payments recently this is a little too co-incidental and I'm going to send them one. A look over their history in Directors, company names, switching of company names, other directorships, accounts etc ( I'm doing a Cabot Fan Club exercise on them for which they'll be sorry !) tells me they might not be exactly what appears on the tin (we'll see ) so following the SAR route might be worth considering Patrick.

[tomterm8]

Tom / Patrick,

 

 

What else do we need.

 

Don't provide my information to anybody who does not fall under the exemption parts unless I provide my express permission that you can do so, and only use it for reasons pertaining to any business I have with you.

 

The Human Rights Act 1998 also gives power of rights to the individual e.g. Article 8 Rights to Privacy, which has an affect on the powers of the Police and the Security Forces.

 

 

Tide

 

Hi, Tide, with all due respect I don't really want to go into the realms of politics rather than law. So, to clarify, the data protection act 1998 is deficient in implementing the DP Directive in a number of ways.

 

Within the law, legislation like the DPA is always a balancing act between the rights of different individuals. Your statement "Don't provide my information to anybody who does not fall under the exemption parts unless I provide my express permission that you can do so," does not quite reflect what the act does. the act does not require consent (although any consent given must be explicit),

 

ultimatly the act requires that the data is held and processed for a legitimate purpose, is accurate, complete, and held for no longer than is necessary for the purpose.

 

However, in the case that an organisation holds data about you (e.g. a credit reference agency) for a legitimate purpose (i.e, to allow people to check your credit history) they don't, de facto, require your consent.

 

The DP Directive, however, changes the balance of interests. DPA 1998 requires you to prove that your interests are more important than the data controllers, while the DP Directive states that your right to privacy must be protected unless the data controller can show that its own rights e.g. to freedom of expression or property interests are substantially affected. Further, the directive places a presumption that the rights of the subject are more important than that of the controller.

 

there are a few other substantial complaints i have, not necessarily related to the act itself but to the regulation. It appears to be a regular act that (a) Data controllers do not provide information within the prescribed period (b) Data Controllers (e.g. credit reference agencies) do not investigate allegations by DCA's but assume them to be correct and © Data Controllers regularly do not provide the required notice of fair use when they start processing data (d) Data Controllers do not always provide all information they hold on subjects, citing the fact they are held on non-regulated manual filing systems (e) The Information commisioner either does not have, or does not excersise it's powers to require data controllers to modify incorrect data, and complaints are not dealt with outside the court system. (f) it appears that many companies freely pass data between other members of the group, without abiding by the relevant provisions of the act and (g) meta data (i.e. information about the change of records) is never provided by data controllers, even though it is held.

 

These are only a few of the general complaints, whereby the DPA 1998 does not provide strong enough regulations to protect the rights of consumers in the way that the DP directive requires.

[patrickq1]

just had a thought

companies who have a contract with me the usual waiver of my Data Protection Act etc,the usual rubbish and sat here tonight reilised that why dont i write to them on the basis that any future proccessing of my DATA shall now be subject to to me recinding my permission to proccess any data without my express permission and furthermore i request a copy of the excact data they wish to send to any other party this shall include experium and all other CRAs,and DCAs or anyone this shall be on my terms and on the basis of my consent shall not be induced by coercion or undue influence, so that i should not be falsely or mistakenly accused by mis-representations furthermore any data you have shall be requested in order for me to check the truthfullnes and after if it comes to my attention the receipt of my data it is being proccessed wrongly you are on notice of a claim that the account shall be in dispute

[JonCris]

Also worth remebering that no matter what the legislation states if they don't have a properly executed 'signed' agreement then they have no proof of your consent to process your data.

 

In otherwords they cannot assume that consent no matter what they might claim & if the data is wrong & they are notified by the subject they cannot rely on the legislation to protect them against litigation.

 

Nor under these circumstances can they rely on the common law 'good faith' argument

[TideTurner]

Tomterm,

 

If the regulatory bodies set up to enforce the DPA could come close to those regulatory bodies set up to protect the Communications industry (who are doing a damned good job), many people would not be in the position they are in.

 

Certainly, if these companies / organisations (creditors) would have complied with any Law to the letter, they would not have made the billions that they have.

 

My problem is that nobody is stepping up to the line to be counted. No regulatory body will admit that that they got it wrong and allowed an injustice, and nobody has been brought to bear for taking money they were not entitled to.

 

The ICO, FOS, FSA CML, FLA and others all purport to act for the consumer, but none of them do. In fact,, I don't know of any organisation or regulator thet can help.

 

I agree with your earlier post and would suggest that funding for protection has been the problem. The majority of the above are funded by the banks, so how can they be regulators?

 

FSA - my AR5E.

 

Tide

[TideTurner]

Joncris, does this apply to mortgages / deeds?

[patrickq1]

yes it is time that all of this was brought into question,most of the bad credit data does stem from the unlawful overcharging of accounts and from the denial of your rights to qualify the debt both the CRA and the FINANCE CO are culpable of either fraudulent deceptive practices capable of causing harm to ones creditworthiness..it is time that a challenge was brought to the notice of the ICO/FSA and Other Goverment authorities that they have acted negligently in allowing abusive practices to continue most of all Experium and other CRAs are further harming your rights to fair and lawful treatment , to question this or should i say to challenge data that has been passed to the dca and others without a lawful agreement this is why i put the other staement in before ,i am sick of experium walking away with profit out of our charges..this was supposed to be the mandate for the ICO but they seem to have gone 360% and sided with banks/finance and experium and others that it is lawful to process your data..it should be NOT WITHOUT A COURT JUDGEMENT/ORDER this way the truth of charges can be questioned without the need to go through all this unlawful practice..it would then put the banks etc on the back foot and also force them to begin acting resposibly,noone knows what data EXPERIUM AND OTHER s have for sure their may be hidden/secret data that we are not privy to ,it is time their was an inspection or audit into the whole system

[conar686]

Also worth remembering that no matter what the legislation states if they don't have a properly executed 'signed' agreement then they have no proof of your consent to process your data.

 

In other words they cannot assume that consent no matter what they might claim & if the data is wrong & they are notified by the subject they cannot rely on the legislation to protect them against litigation.

 

Nor under these circumstances can they rely on the common law 'good faith' argument

 

While I agree with the above, I've made this argument, so far unsuccessfully a number of times withe the Information Commissioners Office. Their response was to say I either clearly benefited or had a clear business interaction & therefore on the balance of probabilities 'I must have given my consent'. Basically go to court & let a judge decide argument

[MoonHawk]

Can one (or more) of the legal bods comment on what Conar was told by the TS (details in thread Have you sent a CCA request to AK?)

 

He was told that "assignment of a contract does not always require to be in writing anyway".

 

??? How can it be shown legally that they are permitted to collect the debt if there is no paperwork?

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[razorc]

Hello all , can anyone check our agreement to make sure the cost of credit matches the APR and all that stuff we are being charge.

 

link to my agreement - Image of agreement - old one - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

its with welcome finance my thread is located - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/114728-welcome-finance-any-1-a.html

 

If PeterBard can greatfully check over our agreement for us that would be great , conar686 said to ask yourself or anyone else that know there numbers.

 

 

thanks all

[harrythehawk]

Hi, just a quickie, I have had the we don't have to keep copies of CCA Agreements if over 6 years old thrown at me, I know this is wrong as it is 6 years after the agreement ends but don't know what piece of legislation this comes from, have scanned the CCA 1974 this morning but couldn't find it ? Cheers Harry

[ncf355]

Believe thats the money laundering regs Harry