Cap1 & CCA return

[un1boy]

Are the Royal Mail allowed to do that?

 

Seeing as we don't have a contract with them in order to receive mail - although, I suppose they could argue that you don't have to accept the mail I guess.

[shane5408]

Is it not intereting how BT are now charging late payment and payment processing fees?

 

Also, the Royal Mail charge £1 for every item that is not priced properly by the sender - I just had one through that was under priced by 6p (yes, 6p) and they charged a £1 handling fee.

 

Now, imagine these were pounds - the ratio is more disturning than the bank charges issue.

 

Just goes to show the greed these companies have.

 

 

hiya Un1boy,

 

yeah, BT and a lot of other telecoms carriers have reduced their late payment amounts now as well. Residual effect of all bank and credit charge claims me thinks!!

 

not much happening with ur case at the moment then?

 

regards,

shane

[paulwlton]

What is the effect of an incorrect default notice by way of the amount mis-stated. Has anyone got a link.

 

Paul

[Minney]

Hi all:)

I have been talking to 'Hellhasnofury' in the ppi section of the forum and she has advised me to ask one of you experts in this section, if you would kindly have a quick peek at my documents in the 'link below' to see if it should state the 'total credit charge' on them or not? if you wouldn't mind please:) it would be very much appreciated.

 

x-stacey-x1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

My thread is here also, if needed;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/115106-ppi-loan-issues-2.html#post1147389

 

Thank you!! guy's and girls in advance for your help!!

 

Minney.x

[Peterbard]

What is the effect of an incorrect default notice by way of the amount mis-stated. Has anyone got a link.

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul

 

Section 88 of the cca 1974 says that default notices must have all the terms prescribed withn that section, one of which is the sum to be paid ,i presume that this means that if the notice did not conform it would not be possible for the creditor to take further action untill they sent a correctly formated notice and gave the requesite 14 days to remedy

 

Best regards

Peter

[conar686]

Hi all:)

I have been talking to 'Hellhasnofury' in the ppi section of the forum and she has advised me to ask one of you experts in this section, if you would kindly have a quick peek at my documents in the 'link below' to see if it should state the 'total credit charge' on them or not? if you wouldn't mind please:) it would be very much appreciated.

 

x-stacey-x1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

My thread is here also, if needed;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/115106-ppi-loan-issues-2.html#post1147389

 

Thank you!! guy's and girls in advance for your help!!

 

Minney.x

 

Not one of the experts, IMHO, as both agreements are missing the 'total charge for credit' a prescribed term they're unenforceable or more likely improperly executed.

 

I'm sure PeterBard will be along and truely tear them apart.

[Peterbard]

Hi all:)

I have been talking to 'Hellhasnofury' in the ppi section of the forum and she has advised me to ask one of you experts in this section, if you would kindly have a quick peek at my documents in the 'link below' to see if it should state the 'total credit charge' on them or not? if you wouldn't mind please:) it would be very much appreciated.

 

x-stacey-x1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

My thread is here also, if needed;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/115106-ppi-loan-issues-2.html#post1147389

 

Thank you!! guy's and girls in advance for your help!!

 

Minney.x[/quote

 

Hi

This is a strange one

 

It does not appear to pretend to be regulated by the CCA 1974 as their is no heading to that effect.

 

If it were it would be unenforceable because there is no mention (unless i have mised it ) of the repayment amounts which is a prescribed term.

The Total amount of credit seems to include the PPI which would suggest that it was optional if it were not then it should not be there it should be listed in the total charge for credit.

Also there is the stutory notice about your home being at risk which would suggest that this is a secured loan yet the section 58 requirement for a cooling off period is not mentioned on theagreement.

 

I will have a squint at your thread

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

hi

OK Just changed me specs and spotted the repayments on the document.

 

Also had a look at your Tand c's still cant see any mention of the cca 1974.

It does state the registration number and the fact that the insurance is regulated by the FSA but nothing about the loan.

 

The prescribed terms for this type of agreement are the repayment details (intervals and amount and the total amount of credit.

If the PPi was not opptional this would mean that this figure was incorrect .

 

The lack of the pre contractual cooling off period although not a prescribed term would in my opinion nevertheles render it unenforceable although not automatically so.

I will have a more in depth look at your t and cs and get back to you.

 

Best regards

Petr

[paulwlton]

Hi Paul

 

Section 88 of the cca 1974 says that default notices must have all the terms prescribed withn that section, one of which is the sum to be paid ,i presume that this means that if the notice did not conform it would not be possible for the creditor to take further action untill they sent a correctly formated notice and gave the requesite 14 days to remedy

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Thenks Peter

 

What are the requirements under sec 76 and 98.

 

Just checked sec 76 one of the requirments is also the sum to be repaid. I beleive this cannot be mis-stated.

[Minney]

hi

OK Just changed me specs and spotted the repayments on the document.

 

Also had a look at your Tand c's still cant see any mention of the cca 1974.

It does state the registration number and the fact that the insurance is regulated by the FSA but nothing about the loan.

 

The prescribed terms for this type of agreement are the repayment details (intervals and amount and the total amount of credit.

If the PPi was not opptional this would mean that this figure was incorrect .

 

The lack of the pre contractual cooling off period although not a prescribed term would in my opinion nevertheles render it unenforceable although not automatically so.

I will have a more in depth look at your t and cs and get back to you.

 

Best regards

Petr

Thank you!! Peter

Your help and input is sooo very much appreciated hun;)

 

Minney.x

[Peterbard]

HI MInney

 

I am having a bad day today of course the agreement is not covered by the CCA it is over £25000 and pre Aprill 2007.

Having said that i believe that the requirements covering the TCC and PPI and cooling off period are still the same i will check up and get back

 

Best regards

Peter

[Minney]

No worries;) I have those sort of day's 'everyday' lol

 

Thanks hun!!! I'll look forward to hearing from you;)

 

Minney.x

[Peterbard]

Thenks Peter

 

What are the requirements under sec 76 and 98.

 

Just checked sec 76 one of the requirments is also the sum to be repaid. I beleive this cannot be mis-stated.

Hi Paul

I think section 76 refers to enforcing a section of the agreement rather than acting on a breach or default,and i think section 98 deals with termination of agreement by the creditor when no default has occurred.

The main point is that if you have recieved a default notice then all the terms have to be present and correct as per section 87/88 which refers to action taken due to a breach of the contract.

 

Best regards#

 

Peter

[Vulture_Bank]

What is the effect of an incorrect default notice by way of the amount mis-stated. Has anyone got a link.

 

Paul

 

 

 

it is defective and of "no value" in a court of law

[tomterm8]

it is defective and of "no value" in a court of law

 

Actually, it's worse than that. If the creditor terminates the credit agreement as a result of a defective default notice, that itself is a recission of contract, and would result in the debtor being able to claim damages under a variety of law.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

YES

DEFAMATION ACT 1996

 

Defamation Act 1996 (c. 31)

 

HOWEVER

 

Defamation - claimant's particulars of claim struck out - Representation and Advice for Private Clients - Humphreys & Co. Solicitors

[MoonHawk]

Actually, it's worse than that. If the creditor terminates the credit agreement as a result of a defective default notice, that itself is a recission of contract, and would result in the debtor being able to claim damages under a variety of law.

What if they sell the account without a notice?

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

I have today been called by a compnay selling me house insurance. I asked how they got my details and they gave the name of JD Williams, who my wife holds an account for BUT there is no signed agreement. Not only have they sold the debt AFTER sending a blank agreement cut out of a recent catalogue, they have sold her information.

 

Now here is what is even more interesting. I never bothered to go beyond the fact of the mainterms on the agreement they sent me, and did not look for agreement to process data. There isn't any ... NONE ... They registered the account with CRAs, sold the debt and sold the information!!!

 

Front

Back

 

That is all they sent along with a covering letter that just said:

"I enclose herewith a true copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement in relation to the above account as requested."

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[tomterm8]

What if they sell the account without a notice?

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

that's less clear. in that case, there is a equitable interest in the debt, and the new party can process data. However, in that case, my view is if they were to report a default / negative data to a CRA, it may very well be abreach of the DPA.

[patrickq1]

isnt it possible you can use inter alia,and start an injuction to stop the transfer,because of a dispute

 

Deed of Assignment

A Deed of Assignment allows one party (the assignor) to transfer ownership of something they own, such as a house or endowment policy, to someone else (the asignee). In some cases the asignee pays the assignor in return for the transfer of title.

In this section we offer a Deed of Assignment suitable for transfering ownership of property (such as a house, painting, boat etc.) and one for the transfer of a life or endowment policy. Please see the link at the bottom of the page if you're looking for a Deed of Assignment for an Assured Shorthold Tenancy.

 

Deed of Assignment (Property) This Deed of Assignment allows one party to transfer all right, title and interest in specified property to which he or she is legally entitled, to another party, either as a gift or in return for a specified money amount (consideration).

The Deed of Assignment for Property is suitable for use in England, Wales and Scotland and allows you to provide details of:

• assignor
  
• assignee
  
• the property
  
• consideration.

[patrickq1]

Deed of Assignment

[un1boy]

hiya Un1boy,

 

yeah, BT and a lot of other telecoms carriers have reduced their late payment amounts now as well. Residual effect of all bank and credit charge claims me thinks!!

 

not much happening with ur case at the moment then?

 

regards,

shane

 

The court stayed it coz the bank defended it as though it was bank charges -so, i complained to the customer setrvices manager at the court and now its gone back to the judge. I want an anser tomorrow because its been with him for a week then.

 

Isnt funny how they keep threatening to take me to court, but just ring me instead? They are so pathetic!

[Peterbard]

Hi

My understanding of this is the three stages of default first when the agreement is active ie before any default is issued the agreement can be transferred by assignment providing the agreement says that this can be done, if the default is in process (within the period given for remedy) then nothing can be done as it is in dispute.

If the accont is terminated after the default period then the debt can be sold or re assigned .

Accorming to the ICO guidlines the owness is on the orriginal creditor to ensure that the new data controler takes over the account and with it the requirment to keep all information on it current ,if they do not accept this commitment ie they have only bought the debt then the orriginal creditor must either remove the entry fom the file or set the ballance to zero as the debtor no longer owes them any money.

 

Bes regards

Peter

[MoonHawk]

that's less clear. in that case, there is a equitable interest in the debt, and the new party can process data. However, in that case, my view is if they were to report a default / negative data to a CRA, it may very well be abreach of the Data Protection Act.

The agreement they have sent in relation to s78 request was the one in post #9283. Thanks Tom.

There is no mention of rights to give data to a thrid party, yet alone sell the debt. Also is not selling the debt on to a third part effectively ending the agreement, and does not section 87 apply to this? (hence my question regarding notice).

 

87 Need for default notice

(1)

Service of a notice on the debtor

or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice”)

is necessary before the creditor

or owner

can become entitled

, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(a) to terminate the agreement,

or

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

© to recover possession of any goods or land, or

(d) to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as

terminated, restricted or deferred, or

(e) to enforce any security.

If it is not a termination, then it surely is varying the agreement, in which case s82 applies:

 

82 Variation of agreements

(1) Where, under a power contained in a regulated agreement, the creditor or owner varies the agreement, the

variation shall not take effect before notice of it is given to the debtor

or hirer in the prescribed manner.

 

Hi

My understanding of this is the three stages of default first when the agreement is active ie before any default is issued the agreement can be transferred by assignment providing the agreement says that this can be done, if the default is in process (within the period given for remedy) then nothing can be done as it is in dispute.

If the accont is terminated after the default period then the debt can be sold or re assigned .

Accorming to the Information Commissioners Office guidlines the owness is on the orriginal creditor to ensure that the new data controler takes over the account and with it the requirment to keep all information on it current ,if they do not accept this commitment ie they have only bought the debt then the orriginal creditor must either remove the entry fom the file or set the ballance to zero as the debtor no longer owes them any money.

Thanks Peter,

The copy they sent, makes no mention of any powers to transfer the account/debt to a third party. Section 11 in the T&Cs mention "the contractual T&Cs and other information(if any) relating to this agreement" being supplied in English, but none were sent with it.

 

As it happens, they have set the account to zero and as settled, and the DCA has not done anything yet, so in that respect they are OK.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[patrickq1]

My understanding of this is the three stages of default first when the agreement is active ie before any default is issued the agreement can be transferred by assignment providing the agreement says that this can be done, if the default is in process (within the period given for remedy) then nothing can be done as it is in dispute.

then it is a case of inter alia,it is possible you can use inter alia,and start an injuction to stop or halt the transfer,as long as a dispute has been noted,imo i cannot see the banks going into court this way either because the injunction would also cause them problems

The rules governing regulated activities are set out in the FSA’s “Mortgages: Conduct of Business Sourcebook” and cover, amongst other things, pre-contract, start of contract and post-sale disclosures; rules on contract changes, charges, arrears and repossessions; and certain pre-origination matters, such as financial promotions and draft pre-application illustrations.

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 apply to agreements made on or after 1 July 1995. Under the Regulations, a term in an agreement that is ‘unfair’ within the Regulations will not be binding on a consumer. A term is ‘unfair’ if, contrary to good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer. However, a ‘core term’ which defines the main subject matter of the contract, such as the borrower’s obligation to repay the principal, will not be subject to the fairness test if that term is expressed in plain, intelligible language.

The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 restricts the ability of a party to limit its liability, including contractual liability. A party cannot limit its liability for death or personal injury caused by negligence and, where the other party is a consumer, can limit its liability for other damage caused by negligence or for breach of contract only insofar as the term satisfies a test of reasonableness set out in the Act. thanks to vulture for the Pm apreciated

patrickq1