PCN Croydon - mistaken identity?

[dspstv1979]

Hello there, I'm new to the forum here, but it seems like the place to possibly get some advice on a rather strange matter. I cam home yesterday from work to find a PCN on my door-step claiming my vehicle was illegally parked on a red route in Croydon (Semley Road) in May.

 

What's bizarre is that my wife and I were in New York City on the date in question, in possession of the only keys for the vehicle which was parked in the secure car park at Glasgow Airport.

 

Now, I'm sure there are horror stories of cars being stolen or used by valet car park attendants illegally, but this seems wildly far-fetched to me since there were no keys left with anyone for the vehicle.

 

We've NEVER even been to Croydon in our lives, being from Glasgow so I am 100% certain this is a misidentification of my vehicle. They've not provided any images or details of the vehicle beyond the registration number. My question is, how likely is it for these organisations to make glaringly obvious mistakes in identifying cars in these cases?

 

I've immediately sent them an email challenging the PCN as they suggest on the letter and explained where we were, however, the best 'evidence' I could provide to back it up were my flight confirmations for NYC and the car park booking confirmation from NCP. I'm a little bemused as to why the onus is on myself to prove my innocence in this case as I would have thought it was first up to them to provide proof of my guilt.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions about this scenario? A little concerned, despite being sure the car wasn't there for some reason.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Cardiff Devil]

I would expect that the flight details and copy of the parking confirmation would be sufficient grounds to appeal. I would put the appeal in writing though, emails have a tendency to go ignored. If necessary, I'm sure you could get the airport parking company to write a statement on their company letterheaded paper to confirm that the car was in their posession in a secure car park for the duration of your trip.

 

It's probable that they have simply mixed up the registration number somehow, or it may be the case that your plates have been cloned at some stage.

 

You will need to wait and see what they come back with. Keep us posted.

 

CD

[Dragons Dennis]

It is possible that they have made an error and is certainly not unknown, particularly Croydon. But as you can show that your car was in Glasgow airport at the time, you will win the appeal. I would want to estblish if they did indeed have the correct registration number, in which case there is a cloned car out there and I would be checking in case mine was the clone!

[dspstv1979]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. In my email I did make it clear that I was keen to see physical/photographic evidence of my car being where they believe it to have been and outlined my concerns that some illegal activity would have to be taking place for it to be possible.

 

As per CD's advice, I think I'll write to them in addition to the email just to reinforce my concerns.

 

Once again, thanks for your help and I'll update as soon as I hear anything.

[dspstv1979]

Hi guys

 

Thought I'd provide an update on this situation (sorry if it's a bit of a long ramble).

 

After following up my initial email with a written representation, in which I reiterated my suggestion that Transport for London had made an error in misidentifying my vehicle, requested physical evidence of my car being in the area of Croydon and that in order for their allegation to be accurate, my vehicle would have to have been stolen and returned, refuelled and undamaged to exactly where we left it in the secure car park, I received a rather irritating and ignorant reply letter.

 

They said in a very brief note that I had 'stated that I believe my vehicle may have been taken without my consent' and requested documentary evidence of this, including front, side and rear photos of the vehicle and a crime reference number, while suggesting I report the matter to the police immediately. They also stated that without that documentation, the PCN would stand and failed to either acknowledge or fulfil my request for evidence of the contravention.

 

Absolutely furious with this and feeling that they were effectively asking me to waste police time by reporting a crime there was absolutely no evidence had ever taken place, I approached my local constabulary for advice. The helpful female officer reviewed the correspondence and agreed with me that there were no grounds to suggest the car ever moved from the car park and that a crime reference number couldn't be issued. She said the likelihood was that my plates had been cloned and suggested phoning TfL rather than pursue their required route of writing.

 

I did so and the operator on the phone, who was initially quite adamant that my car must've been stolen as they had evidence of it being in Croydon, reiterated that I needed to report it to the police or there was nothing they could do. I re-stated that there was no evidence as far as I was concerned because they hadn't provided me with it. She then informed me that the photos can be viewed online. Note this is not mentioned anywhere on any of the documentation received from Transport for London, not the PCN and not in the reply to my representation. Unable to access a computer at that time, I asked her to view the pictures and describe the vehicle in them.

 

To my 'surprise' she described a vehicle that was not the same make, model or colour as mine. When I pointed this out, she stated that my plates must've been cloned and I would need to go to the police anyway. She then read the number plate in the photos - it did not match my number plate or the one on the PCN. That's right - the number plate they put on the PCN was mine, but the one they photographed in Croydon was not.

 

The PCN has obviously now been cancelled, but I think it's worth highlighting publicly the staggering level of incompetance required for this error to occur. They managed to get my personal details (presumably from the DVLA) by using the number plate they mistyped, but never thought to cross reference the vehicle's make, model or colour. They also never provided any images or even a basic description of the vehicle they photographed at any stage, despite an explicit request from me for this evidence. Not only that, but they have not even managed to spot this glaring error upon receipt of my representation suggesting they had made a mistake, or through their subsequent 'investigation' into it.

 

I am preparing a thorough (and long) complaint letter to send to them pointing out my concerns over the failings of their basic systems, procedures, public relations and communications strategies. I am also highlighting their apparent 'guilty until proven innocent' system and refusal to provide evidence upon request, while demanding that I spend my time and resources gathering evidence to prove my innocence. I have in addition raised the issue of them suggesting that police forces waste their time investigating frivolous and unsubstantiated car thefts based on their say-so along with an extensive list of basic and common sense procedures they should have implemented which would avoid this kind of mistake happening. It is breath-taking that an organisation like this can send out demands for money (accompanied with threats of county court orders and bailiffs for failure to pay) on a fraudulent basis due to sheer incompetence on their part.

 

I will be writing to my local MP and am considering approaching the media to make public the way in which they operate. I hope anyone who reads this is aware that if you are in any doubt as to the legitimacy of a PCN against your vehicle that you MUST challenge it and demand photographic evidence. Do not submit to their scaremongering.

 

I am hugely concerned that there simply must be many, many instances of this kind of thing and that they will be receiving money from innocent people who are either frightened to challenge them or unable to prove their innocence (something that you shouldn't have to do in this day and age).

 

Once again, I hope my plight raises awareness amongst people and helps reduce the chances of others suffering the sleepless nights that I have over their handling of this matter.

Edited July 19, 2011 by dspstv1979
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[ashmk]

Write a letter to the Metro newspaper and share your thoughts with London.

 

http://www.metro.co.uk

[lamma]

TfL - what do those letters stand for ?

[dspstv1979]

To ashmk:

 

I may just do that. Fully intend to write letters to media outlets both North and South of the border.

[dspstv1979]

To Iamma:

 

Apologies for lack of clarity. TfL is "Transport for London (The Enforcement Authority) who sent the penalty charge notice (PCN)

[lamma]

Yes I know, I was wondering what it may stand for in the minds of those that have to deal with them.

[honeybee13]

Yes I know, I was wondering what it may stand for in the minds of those that have to deal with them.

 

Fighting talk, lamma, especially with an 'f' in there.

 

My best, HB

[Jamberson]

If you want my advice, don't waste your time kicking up against the council. It's like swimming through custard and you won't achieve anything in the end - you'll get a polite letter acknowledging your grievance and apologising for the inconvenience.

 

Here's what to do: Try and get a photo of the dodgy vehicle from the council, but even if you can't, report the cloned plates to the police.

 

Send the council a crime ref number (if they give you one) and a scan or photocopy of the registration document showing the correct make and model.

 

That should be the last of this one, but the dodgy vehicle may well do other things which come to you. You'll have to just keep doing the same until it's either apprehended or disappears again.

[havinastella]

If you want my advice, don't waste your time kicking up against the council. It's like swimming through custard and you won't achieve anything in the end - you'll get a polite letter acknowledging your grievance and apologising for the inconvenience.

 

Here's what to do: Try and get a photo of the dodgy vehicle from the council, but even if you can't, report the cloned plates to the police.

 

Send the council a crime ref number (if they give you one) and a scan or photocopy of the registration document showing the correct make and model.

 

That should be the last of this one, but the dodgy vehicle may well do other things which come to you. You'll have to just keep doing the same until it's either apprehended or disappears again.

 

Jamber, the plates were not cloned.

 

It was a completely different car and Reg

 

Jogs

[Jamberson]

[dspstv1979]

Yes I know, I was wondering what it may stand for in the minds of those that have to deal with them.

 

Sorry. Misunderstood.

[BazzaS]

Deja Vu ..... By about 20 years.

 

My mother received a PCN from Croydon, based on tracing her car through DVLA, some 20+ years ago. Since my Mum lent her car to both my sister and I ; Mum asked us who had got a ticket in Croydon, and who had neither paid it nor told her about it.

We both denied it, and on checking with the council : they quoted her car's Reg. Mark, but a different make and model. When she pointed out the make and model were wrong, she was told "well, the details on the ticket aren't very clear, maybe its a different Reg."!

 

Nice to know that some things haven't changed, even with all the new technology.

 

BazzaS.

[green_and_mean]

Deja Vu ..... By about 20 years.

 

My mother received a PCN from Croydon, based on tracing her car through DVLA, some 20+ years ago. .

 

Highly unlikely it was 20 years ago, Croydon Council only started issuing PCNs in 1997.

[BazzaS]

Highly unlikely it was 20 years ago, Croydon Council only started issuing PCNs in 1997.

 

It was a parking ticket (or whatever they were called before PCN's). It was in Croydon - so it may not have been by Croydon Council (given your comment), but it WAS a parking ticket, in Croydon, 20+ years ago.

[BankFodder]

dspstv1979

we have received a press contact about your story. The media would be very interested if you contacted them with a view running the story immediately.

You are being sent a private message about this.

 

Can I say that it would be very useful for others but also for your own story if you contacted the reporter immediately so that the story was aired while it is still a hot story

The media tends to lose interest with old stories.

I'm sure that there will be benefit to you if this story is published.